Sony Explains Why Controller-Free Gaming Won't Work

[tzimize]

''Even better, it turned out that gamers actually like having something in their hand while they play!''

Of course they do.

Heheheh...how I love a dirty mind, be it yours or mine

OT: Move is no better than Kinect. They both push stupid, simple....casual...urg.., games that get boring REAL fast. Just like the wii....

 

[Pendragon9]

Ugh. I see so much hate from Sony.

Personally, I'm on their side. I cannot stand the Kinect. IT's a horrible piece of hardware, and I can see how even the MOVE is beating it in sales, though I dislike it as well.

If they were wrong, the Wii wouldn't have taken first place in sales. Even if Sony copied them, they copied what apparently was a winning strategy.

I hate to admit that such gimmicks sell millions, but it's a truth.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Yugi: Wait, did you just make a crappy peripheral?
Micro$oft: Yeah, so?
Yugi: Well isn't that a rip off for the customers?
Micro$oft: Screw the customers, I have money!

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Kinect can recognize objects to use in place of controllers so you don't need a standard controller. Thinking that Kinect is controller free is a mistake.
For example take a bowl and using it as a steering wheel in a racing game.
or a stick as a sword for a fantasy game.

Kinect can't register a person moving forwards and backwards. This makes weaving and dodging in boxing games better on the Move by default. And thinking of Kinect as controller free isn't a mistake. Using a bowl or a stick to help control a game is more of an extension of the person. The same has been said about operating a car.

where are you getting your information? because it is wrong. It does recognize back and forth through the IR signature gets darker when further away from the IR projector.

Got my info from a GameStop manager who got to test is 2 months before release. Having friends in the retail end of things helps. I probably should have clarified, Kinect can't read a person moving forwards or backwards in the sense that walking forwards and backwards isn't going to be happening for a while. There mat be a patch for that. Also weaving and dodging in boxing games is an imppossibility right now. This is coming from a source that had hands on experience with Kinect. Gameplay videos of Ubisoft's Fighters Uncaged, and MS' own Boxing game on Kinect Sports prove that. Both games require the player to put up both hand in a blocking stance. Early Kinect will not be that great. Wii Boxing had weaving and dodging on it Day 1. If the Kinect can't do that, those limts with it that Move, and even the Wii will capitalize on.

Your GameStop manager buddy is wrong. Kinect can see things moving forward and back - it's core to several of the Kinect Adventures games and required to set up Kinect ID.

Fair enough. They must have patched it as I do remember them habing to fix the issue of it not being able to read actions from a sitting player. And from what I've seen from the two games I've seen that would really benefit from being able to "lean backwards to dodge" instead opting for just "blocking motions", I though he was right. My bad, I'll go slap him upside the head today for lying.

 

[Megacherv]

Yeah but... the Eyetoy sucked!

That's the point they're trying to get across

I have EyeToy: Antigrav, it was fun when I played it as a kid

As for the video, while he didn't explicitly mention Kinect, it's obvious that it's being referenced.

I think that we really need to concentrate on regular motion controls for now since we can barely get those to work half the time to begin with. While I do want Kinect to succeed in some points (and the other half of me wants it to fail so that Microsoft will shut the hell up), it's probably best to work the kinks out of regular motion controls for now.

Though the Move, for as much flak as it's getting for being a "ripoff" of the Wii (which, in essence, it is), it is sort of an intermediate between the Wii and Kinect in that is has both a controller and a camera, effectively doubling it's possibilities.

I for one can't wait to see what either of these controllers will put out. Maybe it'll be crap, maybe it'll be gold, but I'm always optimistic with new technologies.

I tried out the Move when they were demonstrating it at the shopping center near my school.
It is much, MUCH better than the Wii in horsepower and calibration.
Though I have to admit they probably just bought a Wii and said "Okay we need to find flaws in this and make the same thing only better"
Wii 2.0 HD = Move

Again, the Move and Wii started development around the same time (some time in 2001), but at least someone here has actually noted down why the technology of the Move is more advanced.

Imagine it whis way. The Wii is based mainly on the technology in the controller. The Kinect is based on tracking motion with a camera. The Move is those 2 idea put together.

And I also don't see why people who slag off the Move saying it's unoriginal, yet people don't slag off the Kinect because it's unoriginal (Please, you've mentioned the EyeToy over and over again, yet some people don't seem to have put 2 and 2 together)

 

[Megacherv]

Oh, and another thing. With the Move, you can (kinda) physically throw David Hasselhoff across an indoor theme-park filled with explosive crates

I'll let that one sit in you mind for a while...

 

[coldfrog]

Ignoring the obvious bashing occurring here, he's also just ACHING to push their annoying 3D agenda when it's perfectly viable without the expensive 3d technology:


Of course, they can still make some money off of cheap plastic holders and glasses for the controls and sensor, but clearly this is possible without the ridiculous expense of their 3d glasses.

I suppose that the 3d won't work for more than one person, but at the same time, the immersiveness that one person can have is much greater. So I guess that's the one drawback. Ah well. Still, this stuff is silly.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I must admit, I love how Sony are resorting to this childish slating of the other platforms.

Mmph. Cheap shot.

You know that they've been implicitly slandering Kinect for months right? Go watch Kevin Butler's Playstation Move from the Future advert because A) It's as subtle as a T-Rex (which is intentional) and B) you can't watch enough Kevin Butler.

Yeah I know, I didn't say anything that implied otherwise. I was just saying that I love how they're the ones that have this massively ongoing campaign against the other ones like they're a fucking political party or something.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I bet Sony feels like what Xerox felt like with the mouse.

 

[Danzaivar]

You can't have motion controls without a wand. You can't have 3D television without glasses.

Sony sure love to accessorise!

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

You realize that this is the beginning of the end for the keyboard and mouse. Now we just have to figure how to safely beam light directly into our retinas and get rid of the monitor.

 

[Digikid]

I must admit, I love how Sony are resorting to this childish slating of the other platforms.

I must agree. Sony is like a little child going wah wah wah when someone does something better than them.

Grow Up Sony.

 

[Icehearted]

Sony pointed out that rumble was a thing of the past before jumping back into that bandwagons when MGS4 came our way.

No. They were sued because of a patent infringement on the Dualshock. It took time to sort it out. Once they did, they were allowed to produce it again.

and that the PS3 was "too cheap" at $600.

He wasn't saying it was too cheap for consumers. He was saying that based on the technology under the hood, it was set at a price point that meant they were selling at a loss. I think they may be breaking even now, but even last year, Sony was losing $18 on every PS3 sold.

They also undestood that consumers would not pay more than $600 (and even that was pushing it). I seem to remember something about a "long term plan" which is now coming into fruition. It is feasible that PS3 might have more units sold than 360 by the end of 2011.

OP: Don't care either way. I figure if I wanted motion control,I would have bought a Wii. However, as far as I know, Move has sold pretty well and Kinect is poised to do about the same numbers. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking into 5 million units by March 2011, which is entirely feasible on both counts. It will depend on software though (and it seems Sony is winning that race ATM).

Citations citations.... ah! Here we are! Links are external:

Rumble is last generation...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149586.html

Ken Kutaragi said that not only was the system cheap, but if people could not afford it they would work more (get another job?) just to buy one...
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2009/03/08/top-10-reasons-the-ps3-is-failing/


I had a lot more on this too, but lolHDDfailure :/

 

[GonzoGamer]

I must admit, I love how Sony are resorting to this childish slating of the other platforms.

Aaron Greenberg from MS is famous for it. Both MS and Sony are guilty of it but you could just put greenberg in the escapist forum search and you'd have a hard time finding an article where he isn't throwing dirt in Sony's face.

And now a message from the National Pear Institute:
Fuck Apples!

 

[pdgeorge]

Realistically, kinect doesn't seem ANY different from the playstation eyetoy... thing... abomination...

Playstation came out with the eye first... Nintendo came out with the wii controllers...
Xbox copied Eyetoy... Playstation copy wii...
The only difference the eyetoy sort of didn't matter as much and is mostly abandoned.

We're hitting walls in innovation. It's damned hard to do something without someone saying "it's been done"

Most non-standard controls (IE: steering wheels, arcade sticks etc.) tend to be gimmicky or just useful for a very small amount of games.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

fix'd [http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/04/kinect-review/]

Broken failware is broken. It's only official now.

All of those complaints could potentially be fixed with software updates and an expanding library of games (as the article itself said). Sure it's no excuse for Kinect being so specific in setup requirements, having limited or awkward menu navigation, or lacking in worthwhile games but the device is clearly not "broken failware".

Sure, software updates could fix the selection options, and iron out some of the kinks with video recognition, but it will do nothing to save the lag and drop-out problems that the system has. I'm not saying that the system is a failure because of a lack of expansive selections, I'm saying as such because it does not do its intended purpose, which is 1 to 1 motion capture.

Ah but Kinect was never advertised as 1:1 motion capture, only "controller-free" and "full-body motion capture," at least to my recollection. It was Move that was always advertised as 1:1 motion capture, along with the "itz haz teh butns 2!" ad campaign after Sony found out about Microsoft's motion control design (don't get me wrong they were pretty good ads, they just had very childish intentions).

 

[Icehearted]

Sony pointed out that rumble was a thing of the past before jumping back into that bandwagons when MGS4 came our way.

No. They were sued because of a patent infringement on the Dualshock. It took time to sort it out. Once they did, they were allowed to produce it again.

and that the PS3 was "too cheap" at $600.

He wasn't saying it was too cheap for consumers. He was saying that based on the technology under the hood, it was set at a price point that meant they were selling at a loss. I think they may be breaking even now, but even last year, Sony was losing $18 on every PS3 sold.

They also undestood that consumers would not pay more than $600 (and even that was pushing it). I seem to remember something about a "long term plan" which is now coming into fruition. It is feasible that PS3 might have more units sold than 360 by the end of 2011.

OP: Don't care either way. I figure if I wanted motion control,I would have bought a Wii. However, as far as I know, Move has sold pretty well and Kinect is poised to do about the same numbers. Both Sony and Microsoft are looking into 5 million units by March 2011, which is entirely feasible on both counts. It will depend on software though (and it seems Sony is winning that race ATM).

Citations citations.... ah! Here we are! Links are external:

Rumble is last generation...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6149586.html

Ken Kutaragi said that not only was the system cheap, but if people could not afford it they would work more (get another job?) just to buy one...
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2009/03/08/top-10-reasons-the-ps3-is-failing/


I had a lot more on this too, but lolHDDfailure :/

Citations, citations (maybe you want to look past Corporate spin-doctoring to see the root of the issue).

Rumble:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/03/6366.ars
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2007/11/23/dualshock_3_gets_approval_from_fcc

Cost:
From your own article I might add:
"The PS3?s high price is a result of the complicated and high end hardware Sony uses in the PS3. At launch, they were losing hundreds of dollars for every console sold, and today, even after several updated and new, cheaper components, Sony still loses a big sum of money for every console they sell.

Some analysts have even suggested that Sony will continue to lose money on the PS3 during its entire lifetime, which is especially problematic since Sony expects the PS3 to last at least another 5 years."

It's funny that both you and the article cherry picked a sentence out of context from Ken Kutaragi. Trolling?
Here:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/706/706133p1.html

Remember, Bluray was new tech at that time and the PS3 was the cheapest solution for a Bluray
device. Ken Kutaragi may have been a bit harsh in his words (that could be a language barrier thing) but the meaning is that the quality of the product (under the hood) is superior and expensive. Therefore, $600 would seem a reasonable price to pay (for early adopters).

Like DVD machines, Microwaves and VCRs in the past, new tech is always costly (each of those were $1000+ when they first arrived on shelves - and now what are they, $50?).

Not sure why this is an issue for you.

Actually, the Kutaragi link wasn't even my original reference.... that one was gone with my lost HDD. Also, wikipedia? Really? That clear and infallible source of information people pretend it to be.... here, yet another linky:
http://www.frontgroups.org/node/416

If the GS article was "Corporate spin-doctoring", which I doubt, then let us point fingers at Sony for being dishonest about their motives. Frankly, I think they saw the buzz for the Wii and wanted to tap into that, and before 'Sony Attempts Wii II: Attack of the Move' they tried it with sixaxis, which by nearly all accounts was panned across the board. It was a feeble and unremarkable flop.

No need to be nasty with me, sport. Not my fault Sony's record is so poor this cycle.

 

[William MacKay]

I think that the motion-controlled menus will get annoying for people who are really eager to play their new game, i.e. *swings arm, selects wrong thing*. But that may only be with the young children. Also, i do like holding something. but if I have to play a CoD/Fable-type game with a wand, i'll just buy Zelda/Something-Similar for the Wii. i'll just grab a toy gun/sword from the box in the cupboard instead. Kinect looks quite good, PS3's Move looks like they ripped off Nintendo's Wii Remote.

 

[LightOfDarkness]

I have EyeToy: Antigrav, it was fun when I played it as a kid

As for the video, while he didn't explicitly mention Kinect, it's obvious that it's being referenced.

I think that we really need to concentrate on regular motion controls for now since we can barely get those to work half the time to begin with. While I do want Kinect to succeed in some points (and the other half of me wants it to fail so that Microsoft will shut the hell up), it's probably best to work the kinks out of regular motion controls for now.

Though the Move, for as much flak as it's getting for being a "ripoff" of the Wii (which, in essence, it is), it is sort of an intermediate between the Wii and Kinect in that is has both a controller and a camera, effectively doubling it's possibilities.

I for one can't wait to see what either of these controllers will put out. Maybe it'll be crap, maybe it'll be gold, but I'm always optimistic with new technologies.

Apparently, the camera only tracks the big glowing ball at the end of the move.
I just hope it doesn't get tons of shovelware like the Wii did ;_; so much shovelware...

 

[Jumplion]

I have EyeToy: Antigrav, it was fun when I played it as a kid

As for the video, while he didn't explicitly mention Kinect, it's obvious that it's being referenced.

I think that we really need to concentrate on regular motion controls for now since we can barely get those to work half the time to begin with. While I do want Kinect to succeed in some points (and the other half of me wants it to fail so that Microsoft will shut the hell up), it's probably best to work the kinks out of regular motion controls for now.

Though the Move, for as much flak as it's getting for being a "ripoff" of the Wii (which, in essence, it is), it is sort of an intermediate between the Wii and Kinect in that is has both a controller and a camera, effectively doubling it's possibilities.

I for one can't wait to see what either of these controllers will put out. Maybe it'll be crap, maybe it'll be gold, but I'm always optimistic with new technologies.

Apparently, the camera only tracks the big glowing ball at the end of the move.
I just hope it doesn't get tons of shovelware like the Wii did ;_; so much shovelware...

Oh, don't worry, both the Move and the Kinect will get copious amounts of shovelware, with the Kinect getting in on it early [http://kotaku.com/5563326/the-15-kinect-launch-titles-are] (I'm teasin', I'm teasin')

But the camera itself can track a person, it's had a few of those games aswell as it's pretty much an amped up EyeToy.