Space marine demo; thoughts?

[Soviet Heavy]

snip

Have to disagree with you there:

Let's not jump to conclusions regarding Space Marine squad sizes. Who knows, maybe there's a plausible in-game explanation as to why there's only three Ultrasmurfs running around. Perhaps they're the sole survivors of a Thunderhawk crash, or their drop pod went off course and they're stranded from the rest of their forces. Perhaps they're on a secret mission that the rest of the chapter isn't supposed to know about. Even if it's never explained it's not that big of a deal for me.

You can still get killed pretty quickly if you don't stay on your toes. My first death in the demo was at the hands of a Nob who killed me in about two or three swings. My second was from a bomb Squig when I had approximately 50% health. This was on Normal difficulty mind you, not Hard. Also, enemies can still wail on you while you're doing execution moves. I've died a few times because I didn't clear surrounding enemies away with an area-of-effect stun before executing my intended victim.

You complain about Space Marines killing hundreds of regular enemies and how it's not "lore accurate." It makes me wonder how familiar you are with 40k's fluff. Just about every Space Marine novel depicts a small squad of Marines killing hundreds (if not thousands) of regular enemies at some point. They often go on to kill a particularly nasty foe like a Warboss or Daemon Prince...and survive. Yes the tabletop and DoW series has them more evenly matched with their enemies, but that's mostly for game balance (otherwise everyone would only play as Space Marines). Also, this is the Ultrasmurfs we're talking about. Like it or not, Games Workshop has made them the poster boys for the Imperium, lauding them as the most capable Space Marine chapter around with regards to overall performance.

The Grey Knights always seemed more capable. Despite being psychic (chaos loves corrupting psychics) they have yet to lose a single marine to chaos. So amazing is their incorruptable pure pureness that they're the only psykers they black templars allowed to come on their crusades. Ultramarines don't make dark gods piss themselves in terror at the mere mention of their name. Grey Knights do.

What about the Khornate Knights atrocity from Matt Fucking Ward's new Grey Knight Codex? A bunch of Grey Knights arrive on a chapel planet that was invaded by the World Eaters, and encounter a group of Sisters of Battle who had remained pure to the Emperor by killing their corrupted sisters. They were guarding a shrine to the emperor that held a Holy Weapon.

So what do the Grey Knights do? They kill all the uncorrupted Sisters and run off with the weapon.

 

[vaderaider]

I am a massive 40k fan. Not so much of space marines, I play imperial guard. I can say that this demo proved all of my pre assumptions wrong, I had expected it to be Boring and repetive, The combat was just so satisfying, Bolters felt like they had the power of bolters, The chainsword was just so fun...I even shouted "for the emperor" on numerous occasions.

 

[Sonicron]

I am worried about the weapons though. Are there only four guns? I hope there's more.

I can confirm the 'more weapons' bit, although some of them are going to be situational (iirc). Heavy bolters, plasma guns, melta guns, lascannons and others will all be available, but like the jump pack, some of them will only be at your disposal for specific encounters.

 

[Corporal Yakob]

Not gonna lie, that was just a ton of fun. The power axe especially just made me so damned happy I was all but giggling the entire fight while using it. And one of the execution moves I got with it on a stunned Nob, holy crap, that was just... wow. I tore his face in half!

Kratos can eat his heart out, these Space Marines are the real deal. Damn.

Only complaint? Can't play as an Ork. I'm secretly hoping they win at the end of the game, Orkz for lyfe yo!

I actually shouted "WOAH!" when I first got a execution move on a Nob-HE PULLED HIS HEAD APART! EMPEROR SAVE ME THIS IS AWESOME!!!

I loved every nano second of the demo and it has exceeded my already extremely high expections of the game, now I desperatly want the game even more. Its even one of those few games that get me truely excited for the multiplayer because I CAN CREATE MY OWN CHAPTER AND SEND TRAITOR SCUM SCREAMING TO THE DAEMON PIT ONLINE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Your Nightmare]

I really enjoyed it. Found it hard to get back into the swing of a 3rd person game after not playing 1 for months..

Can you get more than 1 melee weapon in the demo?

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I really enjoyed it. Found it hard to get back into the swing of a 3rd person game after not playing 1 for months..

Can you get more than 1 melee weapon in the demo?

Near the end of the first level, you can find a Power Axe in the area when the Guardsmen show up.

 

[Weaver]

I loved it! If anyone wants to check out my LP of the demo you can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqT4xYYCrzo&feature=channel_video_title

 

[Keava]

The Orks are a lot more fun, but I have a niggling feeling that it would detract from the gameplay if you were one of them. The Spess Mahreens are like Batman, half of what makes them cool is the guys they fight against. If you were playing as Orks versus Imperials, then you would be fighting mostly boring cannon fodder Guardsmen, and maybe at most five Space Marines in the whole game.

I feel that when choosing between interesting protagonists and antagonists, the bad guys should be made more interesting if it comes to compromises between the two. Of course, if you can get some neat protagonists too, all the better. But if it comes down to it, make the bad guys neat at least.

Not to mention the problem that single Ork usually is not the best combatant since he doesn't have enough WAAAGH to really do much. Their strength lies in numbers, the more Orks the stronger they are because they believe in being stronger in a hive mind fashion.
To make a game where you play as an Ork you would have to play with like 11 AI Ork-mates to back you up for it to make any sense. Even War Bosses rarely walk around without a hefty amount of Boyz and/or Nobz surrounding them.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

DRM for the DRM god
Demos for the demo throne

amidoinitrite?

 

[holographicman]

good to know that it wont suck

 

[Totenkopf]

Spoiler

Its Awful!!

I hate, i was so excited for this game, I've been following it since it was leaked.

As a huge warhammer Tabletop fan and Book fan, the game just doesn't feel like warhammer at all.......

Space marine squads are often times small sure but..... theres more then 3-4 people per squad, i hear in the game at points you'll be completely alone...

I hate this whole "you don't need cover you have power armor" So! An ork Axe, a banshee blade those can pierce it, hell bullets can kill them, a good old heated laz rifle or plasma rifle can take you out pretty fast.

Space marines love charging sure, but there very tactical very!! they take cover they do stealth they do well planned manuvers, this game its just CHARGE Oh look i have furry! Mash melee win.

Also Orks die a lot sure, but there not completely weak, there like tissue paper in this game. Fun fact did you know orks can actually match a space marines strength (its why there able to pierce there armor with there axes) This game they just die left and right all over the place theres no challenge. There just cannon fodder and thats not how the orks are. The orks are easily fooled and manipulated sure but ther scary. Theres a saying always going around in Warhammer "if the orks were able all band together under 1 Waaaahg banner nobody could stop them"

The game just feels like it was made for non fans, f you have any love for the lore and the table top lore you'll just feel insulted and disgusted. The game had so much promise.

Have you read the 40k novel Helsreach?

Spoiler

That's so far the only book I've read that's about Astartes fighting orcs, and I think the game captured the feeling of that kind of fight pretty decently. The health system isn't that bad: Simply think of the execution-moves as "kill the orcs before they can swarm you and hit the weak spots of your armour". Of course it's not really consistent with the lore that you heal when you stomp the head of an orc, but it's a good gameplay idea and blends nicely with the general atmosphere.

Furthermore, you can adjust the difficulty level if that enhances the experience for you.

But hey am sure everyones just gonna chalk me up as a warhammer fanboy so why should i continue to vioce my reasons when no one will listen.

Don't worry. I would not listen to opinions of people who were not fans of the lore.
A 40k game should be for 40k fans. If people want a generic hack and slash they can fuck off and play Dynasty Warriors. A series that I do actually love. But thats not the point here.40k fans should not just accept a franchise they love getting pissed all over to appease people who dont even know what a squa-BLAM! HERESY!

I have to admit, in some regards it is suboptimal. But I'm still perfectly fine with that and stay excited for it.
You should look at it from this perspective as well: If it was a game solely made for 40k-fans, it would have never gotten the budget it has now, what would have meant an experience with universally less quality.
I personally think that it is a pretty good compromise between "lore" and "streamlining".
We still could have got away much worse with the balance between those two.
Dawn of War 2 is great too, even though it doesn't take it that exactly with keeping itself to lore ("Direct hit by a plasma-cannon! Oh, that banshee is still alive...").

OT: Great demo. I needed some time getting into the gameplay, but then it got really entertaining.
In my humble opinion it did a excellent job in putting you in the boots of a Space Marine.
I'm definitely looking forward to the full game!
My only concern is that it is not really as "dark" as the 40k universe would be.
Yes, there were blood, gore and corpses, but it still was generally quite bright and somehow lacked a bit of the "grimdark" warhammer-feeling I got from the books I've read.
Going for another play-through now!

 

[Sonicron]

Its even one of those few games that get me truely excited for the multiplayer because I CAN CREATE MY OWN CHAPTER AND SEND TRAITOR SCUM SCREAMING TO THE DAEMON PIT ONLINE!!!!!!!!!!!

Seconded. A few months ago I created my own chapter for the Deathwatch pen&paper RPG; I even wrote a 3-page history - and now I actually get to play them! Awesome! I usually don't even care about multiplayer, but for this one I actually upgraded my XBL membership.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Like it or not, Matt Fucking Ward has made them the poster boys for the Imperium, lauding them as the most capable Space Marine chapter around with regards to overall performance.

Fixed that for ya man. Matt Fucking Ward has turned a decent chapter into his own little fan fiction wet dream.
Other 40k authors have tried to tone it down and fix shit but Matt Fucking Ward declares their stuff non canon.

Heh, you got me there. Sometimes I wonder if he's secretly trying to sabotage the franchise:

 

[Simeon Ivanov]

I am worried about the weapons though. Are there only four guns? I hope there's more.

I can confirm the 'more weapons' bit, although some of them are going to be situational (iirc). Heavy bolters, plasma guns, melta guns, lascannons and others will all be available, but like the jump pack, some of them will only be at your disposal for specific encounters.

The Lascannon <3. Thank you good sir.

 

[LorienvArden]

Thanks to the emperor that they got it right.
I was very sceptical when the leaked alpha footage was shown and they talked about "the bolter beeing a tool to distract your enemy while you get into CC". Things looked pretty nice in the trailers and vlogs, and I had a look at Mr.Biscuits "WTF is" on the matter.

This is how it should feel. It looks fast paced, gory and very atmospheric indeed. The thing I loved the most in the demo was oddly enough how they presented the lasrifles of the guardsmen. THATS what I always wanted them to look and sound like ! Powerful laserpointers filling the room with a strobing lightshow and orks screaming in pain because they get cut in half by several tiny dots of light.

Lovely. The bolters on the other hand... well they look allright, but I would have gone for an even deeper sound when firing. Personal taste propably.

A quick search confirmed that this will have coop mode, so I'll prolly preorder this one at my gamestop to get the Dark Templar skins...

 

[Mr_Universal]

I just finished it for the 2nd time now, and even after playing it again, it didn't feel repetitive, in choose to play it on normal, and at first I thought they had made the game too easy....but then the Nob came...and then 2 at the same time xD that really surprised me haha, though we all know the orcs strength lies in numbers, and of course bigger orcs. Takes like 4-5 mags of the Stalker Boltgun to kill the Nobs haha.

 

[Niveama]

Super Snip

I'll be more than happy to tell you the main reason you're having a problem. You're basing your argument about it not feeling like 40k on the TABLETOP. There's your main problem, since schpess mahreenz are nerfed so they aren't hilariously overpowered in tabletop 40k. I should know, I play Guard. And if you look at the fluff, Space Marines are badass, amazingly powerful and a single one could completely waste a full squad of Guardsmen easily.

It's also partly because they wanted to make the game difficult and fun. It's really hard to control the AI for a full tactical squad, without just scripting it to be the same every time. So they went with four. Personally, i would like five, so it's a killteam, but whatever. I'm downloading the demo now, I expect it will be awesome.

Actually, you have missed the glaringly obvious point to all the "fluff" in 40K.

The table top reflects a Space Marine's true ability. The fluff reflects the propaganda the Imperium spins up to prop Space Marines up to more than they really are.

And so it is for every faction. Tau Rail Guns, in the fluff, rip through tanks liquidating the crew - and the projectile can keep going after that, piercing multiple tanks and structures. On the battlefield, sure it's strong - the strongest non-superheavy weapon in the whole game, but it can do none of those things.

The Imperial Guard battle tanks are propped up to be indestructible bulwarks that can withstand several shots from the most powerful weapons. Yet, when faced with said Tau Rail Gun, a single shot has a 75% chance of making it a smoking crater.

In the fluff, there are a thousand Tyranids for every other individual soldier on the battlefield. But it doesn't work like this on the table top. Same for the Orks.

The Dark Eldar are supposed raid experts that appear out of nowhere and kills your family, rapes your pets and steals your village before you can flinch. Doesn't work like that.

And it keeps going. Everyone knows this.

Fluff = Faction Propaganda
Tabletop = Reality.

Umm total an utter bullshit: the fluff is the tru ability and the TT is an attempt to make a game balanced to actually play.

If you ahd actually bothered to read any fluff properly, you'll see that is not the way the universe works. A Space Marine strike force in the fluff can be as little as afew squads sent to subdue a planet. The Space marine forces for the Damocles Gulf Crusade had a few squads from a few chapters and a single captain from 1 chapter and a vet sargeant from another as their leaders. You reference Tau rail guns well if you'd read Savage Scars (a book mainly from SM point of view) you would see tau Railguns 1 shotting tanks and vapourising marines yet you can't have a weapon on TT becasue it would be massively OP oh look i've killed your tanks and all the units stood behind it.

Yet on tabletop you can't have anythign other than a captain to lead your army, and any SM force no matter how small can be lead by the Chapter Master. Chapter Masters are massive baddasses that a rarely even seen on the battlefield because there is no need.

In SM you play a SM Captain you are meant to be one of the most powerful strongest tactically knowledgable soldier to walk the battlefields of the 41st Millenium I wouldn't want to play a game based on the TT game that would be now fun at all, I'm a Space marine and I can kill about 4 orcs before it die, wow that would be fun.

As for my experience, I've played 40k for over 20 years, including some time spent working for Games Workshop, so I don't know how you think your misinformed opinion stacks up against that.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Good grief! It's called fluff, not lore! Lore is from silly games like WoW. Fluff is the term for, well, fluff, in WH40K.

Other than that: I loved the demo! Having been a fan of 40K since I got the Space Crusade game, and having played and painted since, I felt that this was pretty much pitch perfect.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

OT: Great demo. I needed some time getting into the gameplay, but then it got really entertaining.
In my humble opinion it did a excellent job in putting you in the boots of a Space Marine.
I'm definitely looking forward to the full game!
My only concern is that it is not really as "dark" as the 40k universe would be.
Yes, there were blood, gore and corpses, but it still was generally quite bright and somehow lacked a bit of the "grimdark" warhammer-feeling I got from the books I've read.
Going for another play-through now!

From one of the developer diary's Relic states that they over-saturated the colours to get away from the browny grey muck that pervades modern "realistic" games.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Let me help you decide if you should buy it or not!

You get to slam a thunderhammer into someone's face while wearing a jump pack.

WHAT THE FUCK MORE DO YOU WANT FROM A GAME?!

never been big on the hammer, i'll take a power axe, jump pack and plasma pistol though

also: a chapter that i like as well (Black Templar) but I'll make to with the blueberry's

the demo is downloading now, cant wait