Star Wars Episode 9.....The Rise of Skywalker.
- Thread starter Samtemdo8_v1legacy
- Start date
Is "Star Wars teaser trailer plays great in Star Wars F2P community but not so much elsewhere" a front page headline to you?Basement Cat said:
- Feb 7, 2011
- 8,692
- 3,259
- 118
- Country
- 'Merica
- Gender
- 3 children in a trench coat
I am utterly shocked that people remember that character's name.Kenbo Slice said:
I mean, the moment I read it I was like 80% sure I knew who you were talking about, but I still had to google it to make sure. For a character with THAT MUCH screen time in the movie I can barely remember anything about her.
You're kidding, right?Silentpony said:
The current trilogy is the start of the decline of Star Wars from legend into generic commercial exploitation. To Disney, there is no legend - just an excuse to make a fuckton of movies and movie tie-ins until the regression to the mean kicks in, everything drops into mediocrity and it becomes flogging a dead horse. I don't much like JJ Abrams either, as a man who "reimagines" things entirely to his own convenience rather than with the love and respect many fans have, albeit is very safe pair of hands. But he's a safe pair of hands and he knows how to make a decent movie.
But the prequels were grossly incompetent in numerous ways. Fundamentally undermining it at the core is that the collapse into evil of the central character, Anakin, is extremely poorly handled. Annoying child, then heroic with a bit of an anger problem, slips into anguished and torn, then pops straight off to murder a load of children. Well, fuck. In plot terms it is both weak, and full of holes. Over-CGIed. The acting is shockingly bland for the quality of actors involved. Star Wars has never created another character as annoying as Jar-Jar: his effective retirement after one film speaks volumes.
I recommend anyone checks out Spaced, S2E1, to reflect how a lot of us felt about Phantom Menace: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUkCJDkG3fg
There are a few ways the prequel trilogy is better than the sequel trilogy. I do think Lucas's vision of the Star Wars universe was more cohesive, and he was more interested in creating new and interesting expansions to it (where Abrams seems to mostly repeat already generated places in actuality or style). But it doesn't outweigh the fact that the decades Lucas spent playing around with business-building seems to have led to a shocking decline in his quality as a film-maker.
He sacrificed himself to win without fighting. Exactly like he would have against the Emperor if Vader hadn't turned.Asita said:
Except he's the Master now. He's in charge, not somebody's lapdog. He's (in his mind at least) no longer beholden to anybody else and is the master of his own evil fate. He had the chance to turn away from being a neo-nazi fuckwit and turned it down.Asita said:
That just shows he's not 100% lost. Well, at that point in the movie, anyway.Asita said:
Sets up that Leia developed some of her natural force abilities, shows why X-Wing pilots talk about ejecting even though they lack all kinds of vacuum survival gear (Star Wars space is more survivable than our space, although between the lack of Hollywood explosive decompression and the brief amount of time she was exposed, that was inadvertently the most scientifically realistic scene in Star Wars), and was probably a set up for General Leia to show off during Episode 9, which like 7 focused on Han and 8 focused on Luke, was supposed to be her time to shine. Until reality intervened. So we get successful administrator and effective leader Lando Calrissian insteadAsita said:
We've got a pedigreed badass with ample generational advantages being pitted as an equal against a backwoods yokel with drive and talent, we've got a cyclical system of endless war perpetuated by people that profit from and are untouched by them, we've got the fact that successful revolutions rely on thorough groundwork and long term effort far more than single instances of flashy heroics, but said flashy heroics and legends create stories and show that you have to believe that the "impossible" is possible. We're going into the final story arc where the rebellion is on the backfoot but because of stories, legends, and cunning, their far more powerful enemy has lost all of its momentum. Remember: the only person that knows, for sure, that the Legendary Luke Skywalker is dead is Leia, and possibly Rey and Kylo. First Order Trooper KH-002 just saw this one dude punk an entire fleet of the most powerful military in the galaxy like some Trickster God, chumping their new boss minutes/hours after their old boss got cocky and didn't stop a suicide attack from a defenseless piece of rebel trash which crippled their flagship.Asita said:
There's plenty of plot threads hanging around, and that's before we get into potential redemption arcs, the Poe-Finn-Tico love triangle, or the sheer fact that Force Ghosts and Clones are a thing that's well established. I've got money on "Snoke was an Emperor clone that didn't meet the Emperor's standards"
My Youtube recs are going to be garbage. I'd set up a betting pool on how many solid weeks worth of "content" is going to be created in the next 8 months, but I'd probably guess low and be disappointed on several levels. Plus, who'd have the time to count all of that?Chewster said:
Surely if the name was becoming a title, it should be called Rise of the Skywalker?altnameJag said:
Kind of not liking how many times it tries cramming still from the original trilogy at us. Look, bits of the Death Star! Look, the Emperor's laugh! Look, skiffs like those ones Jabba had! Thought it was a valid tactic for Force Awakens, but we're several movies in now, you don't need to keep reminding us you're Star Wars. It feels like either this is them trying to over-correct from Last Jedi, or maybe just that JJ Abrams is a bit of a one trick pony
It is also a really easy way to get the masses hyped for the movie in a teaser trailer. At this point it is good to remember that trailers always lie.Palindromemordnilap said:
Star Wars fans will love more Star Wars, and anyone playing SWTOR is going to probably not have the negative reaction that people who aren't necessarily into Star Wars will. We're probably a better consensus among a more highly-critical userbase of things than TOR, while TOR might be better for a consensus among... well, TOR players, who presumably like something of Star Wars.Basement Cat said:
We're all adults here. You can say it.
If you like, I can write a small piece on why my personal reaction is what it is. It isn't just blind hatred, it is my opinion as a non-fan of the franchise that has seen the films, and sees Disney's general mismanagement with the new Trilogy, as well as how they handled Rogue One, which is probably my second or third favorite film in the franchise. It would have absolutely been tied for first with Empire if they had kept a lot of the plot points and scenes from the initial teaser.
I am. Everyone seems to be giving it a full critical eye, with varying results. We all seem to have our opinions and can discuss them, as fans or not.
They're doing a 180 after they realized that making an entire movie about burying the past means you're burying the money, and nobody likes your new characters or plot(what little new bits of plot there actually is). This film is a shovel, digging into the grave.Elvis Starburst said:
It'd help if it didn't have bits and pieces of previous original trilogy tracks. But you might be set, since most people seem to jump onto Duel of the Fates anyway. Good luck!
...We'll agree to disagree. While it is a great track, I think it is really overhyped and Battle of the Heroes captures a truly important moment in the franchise. Hell, captures it better than the actual image does. Both songs are absolutely bitchin though.Marik2 said:
I will never forgive Disney for Rogue One. My erection was maximum, and then the film just gave a decent/fairly-above standard lay.Gethsemani said:
I mean, if he wanted to simply come out with it and say he has no faith in us and expects this community to be shit flingers, he could've cut the post down and said so.Johnny Novgorod said:
That's the thing though... As crap as the prequels were, I can at least watch them feeling good knowing that it was Lucas behind it. That he was expanding Star Wars in the ways he knew and planned, and not by some mega corporation that's just crapping these movies out without much care or attention to them. There are a few shining moments (And even a shining movie in Rogue One for me personally) but it's still not really the same Star Wars I know and love. I'd rather watch The Clone Wars than The Last Jedi. Boring as episode 2 is, it's not whatever the fuck that movie was trying to beAgema said:
To perhaps explain this a little better, the problem is the persistent pointlessness of the bait and switch. In the case of Luke vs Kylo, for instance, there is literally no point in Luke not actually being there. Narratively the purpose of Luke being an illusion is to play up the old jedi as a powerful and crafty figure. It's not just that he was able to make sport of Kylo in the fight, it's that Luke completely fooled him and made him waste his time trying to kill someone who wasn't even there. And it wasn't because of his perceived threat level. Kylo simply wanted him dead that badly, hence the rest of the First Order doing nothing during that duel.altnameJag said:
Cue the finale, when after doing nothing but dodging to show how outclassed Kylo was, he turns off his lightsaber and lets himself be struck down. And there's the twist, he's not actually there. Kylo could have never killed him in the first place, and Luke caps the fight off by implying that this isn't the last they'll see of each other...and then one minute and thirty seconds later he dies anyway, which completely undermines the point of the twist. It's an arbitrary twist that's purely there for the sake of twisting. There is no functional difference between Luke dying at Kylo's hand and being killed by the technique he used to trick Kylo into thinking he could kill him.
Put a different way, let's try to sum this scene up for anyone watching Episode IX without watching Episode VIII. "Wait, Luke's dead?" "Yeah, he died after fighting Kylo Ren in the last movie." "Kylo killed him?" "No" "So he didn't die because of the fight?" "Well, no, it was definitely due to what happened in the fight" "...Huh?" "See, when Kylo struck the killing blow we learned that Luke wasn't really there, but the technique he was using to pretend to be there killed him anyways." It's a pointless distinction. While learning that Luke was projecting himself is quite the spectacle, there wasn't a narrative purpose in creating that spectacle.
Similarly in the case of Leia being spaced, none of what you mention is actually relevant. Leia is defined by her role as a general, not as a force user. Having force ability is a fun touch, but ultimately irrelevant to her character. Ejection is fridge logic. Surviving being spaced has no impact on the probability of her being a central character in subsequent movies. It's all fluff. And the central issue at play is the way the scene mournfully focuses on Leia floating in space to emphasize the tragedy of the loss...only for her to then open her eyes and fly back in. Much like with Luke floating over a rock on Ahch-To, there's no narrative reason for that scene to exist rather than just having her be injured in the attack run. It's there purely for spectacle, as much style over substance as the overchoreographed fights in the prequel trilogy.
To your last paragraph, I'm admittedly uncertain what you're talking about with regards to the pedigreed badass vs backwoods yokel bit. Do you mean the spectacle of Luke vs. Kylo or how Snoke lampshaded Kylo vs Rey in the first movie and then we never spoke of it again, or is it something else that's slipping my mind?
The "cyclical system of endless war" isn't even a plot thread isn't even a plotline, it's an author filibuster. Flashy heroics vs long term effort is more discussed than developed, and errs much more towards criticizing flashy heroics than showing the virtues of playing the long game.
And to the last point of "We're going into the final story arc where the rebellion is on the backfoot but because of stories, legends, and cunning, their far more powerful enemy has lost all of its momentum"...that's exactly where we were at the end of the Force Awakens after the Starkiller base made a decapitation strike on the Republic, killing its Chancellor, its Senate, its Defense Fleet, and Republic Command in one fell swoop. That officially shifted the balance of power firmly to the First Order and turned the Resistance into the underdogs. Cue then the destruction of Starkiller base, costing the First Order its momentum.
Now for full disclosure, am I saying that the Last Jedi is a terrible movie? No. But it and its predecessor do still have more than enough writing and directorial faults to make me question the assertion that the sequel trilogy is head and shoulders above the prequel trilogy.
So as long as Lucas was at the helm, it didn't matter if he screwed up well-known characters and derailed the timeline of his original story? It's fine that under Lucas the prequels were filled with flashy, empty visuals and cheap attempts at nostalgia by bringing in characters from the originals in unlikely and improbable scenarios simply because he created Star Wars?Elvis Starburst said:
And that Disney, seemingly on the virtue of being Disney, are destined to treat the movies as mere money-makers?
Lucas didn't have a long nine movie arc planned out in intricate detail. There are plenty of stories of changes that Lucas kept making to the original movies (Bobba Fett being Luke's uncle, a cast of midgets, Luke being Dirk Starkiller etc.) and even inconsistencies between movies- Leia making out with Luke in Empire then claiming she always knew he was her brother in Return and Leia saying she remembered her mother in Return but having Padme die right after the twins were born in
Revenge
Other than Luke most likely would have been vaporized by the extended barrage from the First Order walkers. Luke pulling the Force Projection allowed him to survive the barrage and make a dramatic exit from the planet. According to the First Order Luke just appeared out of nowhere, tanked nearly a minute of heavy laser cannon blasts, made a fool of the new Supreme Leader then vanished/teleported away. For all they know, Luke came show up anywhere at any time and wreck the First Order's plans.Asita said:
Luke didn't exactly die, he became one with the Force and his physical body faded away. It's like when characters ascend to a higher plane.
To me personally, pretty much, yeah. I liked Lucas' Star Wars more than I like Disney's, simply put.twistedmic said:
Whatever their reasons are for handling the property as they are, if merely for profit or with actual care for the franchise... I just don't like how it's turned out so far.
Inconsistencies happen. I'm not saying any of his movies are perfect in comparison to Disney's. All I'm saying is that I get a lot more enjoyment out of Lucas' Star Wars, including the prequels... rather than deal with the extremely unlikable Mary Sue Rey, a ship commander that does shit all till the end of the movie with a thing she could've done sooner, an entire movie that just flat out goes nowhere at all (At least Episode 1 & 2 set things up), and antagonists that aren't handled well or are just cut off at the knees after the buildup.
There's a lot of things I like that came out of the original trilogy, and even the prequels. So far, very little has come out from the sequel trilogy that I like. But that's all subjective and personal opinion. It all just doesn't feel right to me at all. It's why I prefer Lucas' works, flawed as they may be
That's a really uninspired trailer. I liked the part where the dude was fixing Darth Whatever's helmet for some reason, that looked kind of neat. Not a SW fan anyway, but I'll probably watch the RLM review.
And again, that's spectacle with no narrative purpose behind it.twistedmic said:
I feel like we're looking at it in different senses here. You seem to be looking at it in the context of the scene; how not being there justified other bits of action that they did in that scene. I am looking at it in the context of the rest of the story. So, for instance, if we were looking at Luke fighting Vader in Return of the Jedi, the question I'm asking isn't why Luke starts fighting Vader (the Emperor's taunting that Luke's friends would all die finally hit home and he lashed out in anger), but what the fight means for the story itself (it's the culmination of his struggle over his relationship to Vader and the final temptation to turn to the Dark Side as his father did). So when I'm looking at Luke projecting himself, my question is "why did the story need this scene to happen?" And the answer I come up with is that it didn't.
Same difference. This is not something that happens independently of death, it happens in conjunction with it.