Star Wars Episode 9.....The Rise of Skywalker.

[TheMysteriousGX]

And again, that's spectacle with no narrative purpose behind it.

I feel like we're looking at it in different senses here. You seem to be looking at it in the context of the scene; how not being there justified other bits of action that they did in that scene. I am looking at it in the context of the rest of the story. So, for instance, if we were looking at Luke fighting Vader in Return of the Jedi, the question I'm asking isn't why Luke starts fighting Vader (the Emperor's taunting that Luke's friends would all die finally hit home and he lashed out in anger), but what the fight means for the story itself (it's the culmination of his struggle over his relationship to Vader and the final temptation to turn to the Dark Side as his father did). So when I'm looking at Luke projecting himself, my question is "why did the story need this scene to happen?" And the answer I come up with is that it didn't.

The former hero, after believing his own hype and fucking things things up royally because of it, embraces his power to become a Legend. Thought that was pretty clear, honestly

Not much of a legend if they watch him die/there's a corpse

 

[Marik2]

 

[Trunkage]

... the second was a giant chase scene which starts and ends with the Resistance just barely escaping the First Order

Ah.... What do you think Empire Strikes Back was. The whole second act was a bunch of characters needing to be sidelined so Luke can do some training. IN A GIANT SPACE CHASE. FOR MOST OF THE MOVIE. That TLJ space chase was directly lifted from Empire, including have issues with the Hyperdrive. It was bad because it was bad in Empire. It's place holding characters while someone goes and trains.

and with the characters ultimately ending up in the same point in their development that they were at the end of the previous movie. It's a lot of fluff that didn't actually serve a purpose outside of giving us something else to look at other than Rey trying to convince Luke to train her, and even that subplot ended up going almost nowhere as Luke stops training her within minutes of starting. This is actually a bit of a persistent problem within the film, it sets up and twists things to absolutely no effect.

Just Fluff? Po get some big lessons on being a leader, Rey learnt that her past/ lineage doesn't define her. Ren became a leader even though his opponent could mind read. Flynn... learnt nothing, I think. Maybe don't trust strangers. (I will hold off till the third movie to see if these developments actually mean anything.)

Luke is still the same impulsive kid as he ever was and it cost him an arm. The character growth magically happened between Empire and Jedi. You could say losing the arm was the inciting incident but you didn't get to see him grow. None of the other characters learnt anything because they were busy on a GIANT SPACE CHASE for 3/4 of a movie.

 

[BrawlMan]

That's a really uninspired trailer. I liked the part where the dude was fixing Darth Whatever's helmet for some reason, that looked kind of neat. Not a SW fan anyway, but I'll probably watch the RLM review.

Red Letter Media are know-nothing-know-it-all assholes who think they're better than everybody else, because they act like their opinions are facts. They can't take criticism. You can have them, but fuck those guys.

 

[Kwak]

Red Letter Media are know-nothing-know-it-all assholes who think they're better than everybody else, because they act like their opinions are facts. They can't take criticism. You can have them, but fuck those guys.

Never seen that. Where did that happen?

 

[Asita]

... the second was a giant chase scene which starts and ends with the Resistance just barely escaping the First Order

Ah.... What do you think Empire Strikes Back was. The whole second act was a bunch of characters needing to be sidelined so Luke can do some training. IN A GIANT SPACE CHASE. FOR MOST OF THE MOVIE. That TLJ space chase was directly lifted from Empire, including have issues with the Hyperdrive. It was bad because it was bad in Empire. It's place holding characters while someone goes and trains.

Respectfully, you're stretching to make that claim. Empire Strikes Back had a chase scene from Hoth to hiding in the Asteroid field, at which point the chase was interrupted and the Falcon got a reprieve to make repairs. The chase ended in full with the Star Destroyers going to hyperspace and the Falcon flying off to Bespin. Conversely, The Last Jedi has a chase sequence that starts with the Resistance's ill-fated bombing run, and that chase is uninterrupted until Holdo's sacrifice. The siege of Crait happens immediately after this, and lasts for the rest of the film. There's a severe difference in structure stemming from the fact that while one can broadly say that the Falcon's crew was being chased for a good part of Empire Strikes Back (though certainly not most of the movie), it's done through a series of events whereas the chase in the Last Jedi is explicitly a single uninterrupted sequence.

and with the characters ultimately ending up in the same point in their development that they were at the end of the previous movie. It's a lot of fluff that didn't actually serve a purpose outside of giving us something else to look at other than Rey trying to convince Luke to train her, and even that subplot ended up going almost nowhere as Luke stops training her within minutes of starting. This is actually a bit of a persistent problem within the film, it sets up and twists things to absolutely no effect.

Just Fluff? Po get some big lessons on being a leader, Rey learnt that her past/ lineage doesn't define her. Ren became a leader even though his opponent could mind read. Flynn... learnt nothing, I think. Maybe don't trust strangers. (I will hold off till the third movie to see if these developments actually mean anything.)

Poe's development is entirely self-contained in the movie, as it revolves entirely on a flaw introduced in the first few minutes of the film and ultimately ends with his character becoming - by all appearances - the same as he was at the end of the Force Awakens. Granted, however, this one was perhaps unavoidable, as Poe surviving the crash at the start of TFA was actually a late rewrite, so he was fairly undeveloped character in the first movie.

Rey is actually a very interesting point for entirely the wrong reasons. Truth be told it's a bit of a writing flub, as the big revelation ended up forgetting what it was that Rey and the audience wanted with regards to her parentage. The audience was speculating that she had some special lineage. Rey just wanted her family to come back for her. But the big reveal is about her coming to terms that her parents were nobody of consequence, which isn't something she cared about. And coming to terms with the fact that her family wasn't coming back for her was a repeat of what she learned in the first movie. Furthermore, she never let her past define her in the first place. If she had, she would have still been trying to return to Jakku and wouldn't have been trying to get Luke to give her Jedi training, and she wouldn't have believed that she could turn Kylo Ren back to the light.

Kylo Ren was already bossing everyone around in the first film, and was for all intents and purposes Snoke's second in command.

Finn was another repeat of his arc in the first film (which is a shame, because while I think he had - hands down - the best character development in TFA, the next movie seeing him try to run away again as if he'd learned nothing is irritating).

Luke is still the same impulsive kid as he ever was and it cost him an arm. The character growth magically happened between Empire and Jedi. You could say losing the arm was the inciting incident but you didn't get to see him grow. None of the other characters learnt anything because they were busy on a GIANT SPACE CHASE for 3/4 of a movie.

Except for the budding romance of Han and Leia, the recruitment of Lando, Han being shipped to Jabba, the development of parallels between Luke and Vader coinciding with the Emperor and Vader planning to turn Luke to the Dark Side and culminating in the revelation that Vader was actually Luke's father...if you don't know about those developments before going to see Return of the Jedi, you're going to be playing catchup for a good chunk of it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Red Letter Media are know-nothing-know-it-all assholes who think they're better than everybody else, because they act like their opinions are facts. They can't take criticism. You can have them, but fuck those guys.

Never seen that. Where did that happen?

Look at any of their recent Star War reviews of Rouge One and TLJ and you'll see what I'm talking about. They also have contempt for nerd culture as a whole. Especially the Star Wars fandom. In their videos, they act smug as fuck without having to back up much. I don't keep with their content, because I have no respect for anyone on the staff and I won't support people who go out of their way to insult other fandoms; regardless if they "deserved" it or not. It's one thing to not like something, it's another where you think you're better than certain groups due liking/disliking whatever the opposite opinion is. RLM is the friend annoyance no ones likes, and nobody want to be within 50 ft of. Well for me anyway.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Flynn... learnt nothing, I think. Maybe don't trust strangers.

Finn finds a reason to fight besides "so I can elope with my bestest bud/crush Rey". In fact, Rose Tico, for all the hate she gets, is intended to be a role model for Finn, someone who is out of her league (just like Finn feels) but who chooses to put herself at risk for the cause she believes in. It is by interacting with her, realizing the injustices of First Order rule (as exemplified by the luxury of Canto Bight and its arms traders) and later by being betrayed by the locksmith that Finn comes to understand that he must make a stand with the Resistance. This is even lampshaded when Rose kisses Finn and he rebukes her, because he's not fighting for her (as he fought for Rey in TFA), he's fighting because he wants the First Order to fail.

Respectfully, you're stretching to make that claim. Empire Strikes Back had a chase scene from Hoth to hiding in the Asteroid field, at which point the chase was interrupted and the Falcon got a reprieve to make repairs. The chase ended in full with the Star Destroyers going to hyperspace and the Falcon flying off to Bespin.

The chase, technically, ends when Darth Vader shows up in the Bespin dining room and the protagonists realize that they've been caught. There's a lull in the chase at some points (the asteroid, the trick to fool the star destroyers), but the Empire always picks up the trail and continues the chase. The fact that the Star Destroyers end up chasing the Falcon again after the asteroid field and has Han resorting to docking on the side of one of the SDs to throw them off shows that the chase was still on. Then we see Boba Fett fly after the Falcon when it leaves the Star Destroyer and it is a clear implication that the chase wasn't over. It just isn't a high octane outrunning big guns chase anymore.

 

[Kwak]

Red Letter Media are know-nothing-know-it-all assholes who think they're better than everybody else, because they act like their opinions are facts. They can't take criticism. You can have them, but fuck those guys.

Never seen that. Where did that happen?

Look at any of their recent Star War reviews of Rouge One and TLJ and you'll see what I'm talking about. They also have contempt for nerd culture as a whole. Especially the Star Wars fandom. In their videos, they act smug as fuck without having to back up much. I don't keep with their content, because I have no respect for anyone on the staff and I won't support people who go out of their way to insult other fandoms; regardless if they "deserved" it or not. It's one thing to not like something, it's another where you think you're better than certain groups due liking/disliking whatever the opposite opinion is. RLM is the friend annoyance no ones likes, and nobody want to be within 50 ft of. Well for me anyway.

I dont know, just sounds like you're not into their particular brand of cynical schtick. I've never seen them try to pass off anything as other than just their opinion.

Anyway, speaking of, their trailer response.

 

[Hawki]

So, if nothing else, I like the trailer. Good tease, doesn't give away too much.

But of course, that's not what we're really here for are we?

Here's the real question though: is that Snoke or Sideous laughing at the end?

Sideous.

That isn't a guess, Ian McDermid's confirmed to have a role in the film. Andy Serkis hasn't.

somewhere in her late teens Queen Amidala build a romantic rapport with a 10 year old.

Anakin's 9, Padme's 14 in the first film.

Also, the rapport doesn't really begin until Ep. 2. That said, I can certainly understand why Anakin's attracted to Padme, but not so much the other way round.

Also, the laugh... Kylo Ren has been possessed by the Emperor. And this movie is actual the Exorcism of Ren to turn back into a Skywalker.

God no.

I'm mixed on the idea of Palpatine coming back, but him possessing Ben? No. Just no.

I do wish zontar would be here and talk about his conspiracies of star wars and disney.

I actually miss Zontar too sometimes. The debates could be fun. Plus, always good to have an alternate opinion.

On the other hand, if I have to read one more "Star Wars is SJWz!" thread, then screw it. I'm fine with people disliking Last Jedi. Just have some ground to stand on while doing so.

Episode I - 6/10
Episode II - 5/10
Episode III - 7/10

Agree. Heck, I'd make Ep. 3 an 8/10.

I can't say which trilogy is better so far, because while TFA/TLJ are above Ep. 1/2, no Disney film has so far reached RotS.

I HOPE they don't recon Rey into a Skywalker.

Oh don't worry, she'll be retconned into being a Kenobi.

But seriously, don't alter Rey's parentage. PLEASE. Not everyone needs to be related to everyone.

I think Star Wars would work better if it was a high budget live action tv show.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Mandalorian

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Untitled_Cassian_Andor_television_series

I recommend anyone checks out Spaced, S2E1, to reflect how a lot of us felt about Phantom Menace: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUkCJDkG3fg

TBH, you could use that same scene and address it to people who were introduced to the series with the sequel trilogy as well.

That's a really uninspired trailer. I liked the part where the dude was fixing Darth Whatever's helmet for some reason,

I think it's Kylo Ren fixing his own helmet.

 

[Marik2]

No one's ever really gone.

 

[BrawlMan]

Red Letter Media are know-nothing-know-it-all assholes who think they're better than everybody else, because they act like their opinions are facts. They can't take criticism. You can have them, but fuck those guys.

Never seen that. Where did that happen?

Look at any of their recent Star War reviews of Rouge One and TLJ and you'll see what I'm talking about. They also have contempt for nerd culture as a whole. Especially the Star Wars fandom. In their videos, they act smug as fuck without having to back up much. I don't keep with their content, because I have no respect for anyone on the staff and I won't support people who go out of their way to insult other fandoms; regardless if they "deserved" it or not. It's one thing to not like something, it's another where you think you're better than certain groups due liking/disliking whatever the opposite opinion is. RLM is the friend annoyance no ones likes, and nobody want to be within 50 ft of. Well for me anyway.

I dont know, just sounds like you're not into their particular brand of cynical schtick. I've never seen them try to pass off anything as other than just their opinion.

Anyway, speaking of, their trailer response.

I usually don't mind cynical humor most of the time, but they suck at it. I apologize, but I am not watching their response video. Not interested. I do thank you for your response, though.

 

[Asita]

Respectfully, you're stretching to make that claim. Empire Strikes Back had a chase scene from Hoth to hiding in the Asteroid field, at which point the chase was interrupted and the Falcon got a reprieve to make repairs. The chase ended in full with the Star Destroyers going to hyperspace and the Falcon flying off to Bespin.

The chase, technically, ends when Darth Vader shows up in the Bespin dining room and the protagonists realize that they've been caught. There's a lull in the chase at some points (the asteroid, the trick to fool the star destroyers), but the Empire always picks up the trail and continues the chase. The fact that the Star Destroyers end up chasing the Falcon again after the asteroid field and has Han resorting to docking on the side of one of the SDs to throw them off shows that the chase was still on. Then we see Boba Fett fly after the Falcon when it leaves the Star Destroyer and it is a clear implication that the chase wasn't over. It just isn't a high octane outrunning big guns chase anymore.

Technically true, but in the same sense that Catch Me If You Can can be described as such. In both cases it's less a singular chase and more a cat and mouse setup. Chase, escape, chase, escape, chase, escape. Contrast with the Last Jedi wherein the fact that it's an uninterrupted sequence wherein escape is not possible is what sets Poe, Finn, and Rose's subplots in action. I suppose you might call it a chase siege.

 

[BrawlMan]

Episode I - 6/10
Episode II - 5/10
Episode III - 7/10

Agree. Heck, I'd make Ep. 3 an 8/10.

I can't say which trilogy is better so far, because while TFA/TLJ are above Ep. 1/2, no Disney film has so far reached RotS.

TFA more or less has the same score as ROTS. TFA has the slight advantage due to going back to practical effects, and bringing back the fight choreography of the older Star Wars films. TLJ does the light saber fighting even better. TLJ is an 8/10 for me by the way.

The prequel trilogy while having entertaining lightstaber scenses felt way too flashy and didn't invest me as much. ROTS though while still having the overly flashy problem, I found more invested in than the fights from Episode I & II.


This guy explains a bit more thorough.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

will see this, will probably enjoy it. but will only keep discussion with people in real life meatspace and no internet with the eternally toxic cycles of baffling vitriol

 

[BrawlMan]

will see this, will probably enjoy it. but will only keep discussion with people in real life meatspace and no internet with the eternally toxic cycles of baffling vitriol

I'm with you there. You won't believe how many "Rey/SJWs/'forced diversity' ruined Star Wars", or the "Last Jedi is the worse thing ever" video pops up in my YouTube recommendation list. I swear, I never even touch these videos, yet YT keeps putting them in there. And what sucks is some of these videos get a view count in the 500k-1M+ mark. How sad and pathetic are these haters? Just earlier, there was a video titled "How Disney does not get Lightsabers". This is partially why I've always been a casual SW fan.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

I'm with you there. You won't believe how many "Rey/SJWs/'forced diversity' ruined Star Wars", or the "Last Jedi is the worse thing ever" video pops up in my YouTube recommendation list. I swear, I never even touch these videos, yet YT keeps putting them in their. And what sucks is some of these videos get a view count in the 500k-1M+ mark. How sad and pathetic are these haters. Just earlier, there was a video titled "How Disney does not get Lightsabers". This is partially why I've always been a casual SW fan.

luckily have managed to avoid most of those appearing in the recommends, but have been rather cautious with what I choose to watch. they do slip through occasionally. I wonder if those views are that high purely due to controversy, where half the watching are there only to learn what stupidity is fueling it, another quarter being rewatches from the particularly obsessive and the rest being whatever else (fractions may vary). have always preferred to remain a casual appreciator of anything really, no matter how brilliant, can't get into a fan mindset, maybe due to a chronic fear of commitment, maybe not

 

[Trunkage]

will see this, will probably enjoy it. but will only keep discussion with people in real life meatspace and no internet with the eternally toxic cycles of baffling vitriol

I'm with you there. You won't believe how many "Rey/SJWs/'forced diversity' ruined Star Wars", or the "Last Jedi is the worse thing ever" video pops up in my YouTube recommendation list. I swear, I never even touch these videos, yet YT keeps putting them in there. And what sucks is some of these videos get a view count in the 500k-1M+ mark. How sad and pathetic are these haters. Just earlier, there was a video titled "How Disney does not get Lightsabers". This is partially why I've always been a casual SW fan.

TFA made a billion dollars. Thats probably 50 million views. 1 million views, even if they are all anti-SJW, is such a small portion of the total viewership

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

If JJ decides to make Rey a Skywalker i will laugh and laugh and laugh...

Its sad that the Prequels are now not the worst star wars trilogy

Yes they are. Let's not be dramatic. New trilogy isn't particularly bad. It's just not great either. First movie was more than OK, second one was boring, but not technically bad and we still haven't seen the third one. The name sucks, but that's all we know about it so far.

Exactly. Feel like prequels are lately granted weird nostalgia cover paint, by not being as fresh wound as the new trilogy in the minds of fanboys.
And wanna talk lazy? Look at behind-the-scenes materials and Lucas work on the set.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

If JJ decides to make Rey a Skywalker i will laugh and laugh and laugh...

Its sad that the Prequels are now not the worst star wars trilogy

Yes they are. Let's not be dramatic. New trilogy isn't particularly bad. It's just not great either. First movie was more than OK, second one was boring, but not technically bad and we still haven't seen the third one. The name sucks, but that's all we know about it so far.

Exactly. Feel like prequels are lately granted weird nostalgia cover paint, by not being as fresh wound as the new trilogy in the minds of fanboys.
And wanna talk lazy? Look at behind-the-scenes materials and Lucas work on the set.

Pretty much this.

I mean, I basically hated The Last Jedi but it's still better than Attack of the Clones and Phantom Menace. Phantom Menace literally has 1 good scene in it, and it's a really good scene, but the rest of the movie is just crap, and the people who claim otherwise are all wearing nostalgia blinders.

The Force Awakens is fine. It's safe, it's a little boring, it's a complete retread of A New Hope, but I don't really see much wrong with it other than it being too safe and unoriginal. Visually it's great spectacle, and the writing and acting is fine. Overall an above average movie.