StarCraft 2 Tournament Boots Player for Rape Comment

[Pinkamena]

I have no objection to this guy being taken out of the tournament but I do take exception to:

joking about rape is never ok. Ever.

Because I disagree. Plus what this guy said what not a joke, it was a reference.

I agree, anything can be joked about.

 

[Temko Firewing]

I basicly NEVER comment.

so take this to heart escapist: "Hayda's comment is just one example of how the eSports community pushes women away." is just about the most fucking wrong (factual) editorial sentence i've ever read on your website.

EVER.


There are female only tournaments.
There are mixed gender tournaments (but the one male only tournaments got shit to obvlivion...gg double standards)

He apologised for a comment that was insensitive/retarded. as he should have. different genders = different social norms.


but seriously? i've NEVER heard of "women" being pushed away from e-sports. Ask fucking scarlet in her recent interview with the New Yorker. Ask Bee. Ask any other (of the very very small handfull) of high-end female gamers. out there. Ask in CS:S or CS:Go, ask in League. or Dota. You can bloody ask the one women who was "well known" in SMASH.

...there is basicly no group of people less worried about gender, then the e-sports scene. (Fucking CHESS is more segregated).


So ye. Fuck this comment.

 

[TechNoFear]

How times change....

In 1975 Muhammad Ali repeatedly called Joe Frazier a 'gorilla' in TV interviews; "It will be a Killa and a Thrilla and a Chilla when I get The Gorilla in Manila"

 

[JimB]

Hayda's comment is just one example of how the eSports community pushes women away.

No. If you had said that things like this is one of the reasons women feel pushed away from the e-sports community, you would be right as that is a factual statement. By saying that the e-sports community pushes away women, you've just called me and millions of others who had nothing to do with this sexist assholes. Blanket statements like that has to be kept out of any article ever, because they are literally always wrong when referring to a large group of people.

Not really. When talking about a community, it's treated as a single entity, not a collection of smaller, single entities. For instance, when saying Walmart maximizes its profits by encouraging employees to sign up for welfare benefits, that is true even though the greeter at the front door has no part of that policy-making process. Walmart is composed of its employees, but it is not its employees. The eSports community is composed of gamers, but it is not all gamers.

 

[JimB]

So in short: Woman loses badly to better male player and gets him disqualified over trash talk.

Woman notices male player violating the conditions of participation in a tournament as well as announcing an intention to commit a violent crime, when his statement is interpreted literally. Woman reports the violater. What a crybaby, expecting her opponent to follow the rules of the tournament and to not say he intends to commit penetrative physical assault.

Anyone should be able to enter a space, but when you try to make everyone change that space to accommodate you, you're something of a social imperialist and douchebag at that point.

Honest question: Is it not social imperialism to only allow people to enter your space if they change to accommodate you? If not, then what's the difference?

It's a competitive sport; trash gets talked in competitive sports.

There's trash, and then there's announcing the intent to commit a crime. I don't know what the law is like where the tournament took place, but where I live, that statement is technically assault.

Nobody would have batted an eye if this comment was directed at a guy.

I would have.

So now you've skewed the tournament in favor of women because they can just get offended at all the comments and win the tournament by offended>ban elimination.

That is not even close to what happened.

 

[TallanKhan]

To my mind, he got what he had coming, if you take the incident as a whole then it's inappropriate conduct for a professional sportsperson.

However, I did roll my eyes at the whole "Its never ever ok to joke about rape" bit, to my mind no suject is a no go area for a joke, provided the joke isn't itself told with malicious intent. Persoally I think rape jokes are at the least in bad taste, but thats my opinion and I have no right to try to push it on others.

 

[Schadrach]

So in short: Woman loses badly to better male player and gets him disqualified over trash talk.

Woman notices male player violating the conditions of participation in a tournament as well as announcing an intention to commit a violent crime, when his statement is interpreted literally. Woman reports the violater. What a crybaby, expecting her opponent to follow the rules of the tournament and to not say he intends to commit penetrative physical assault.

Where does the tournament actually put the line regarding trash talking?

Anyone should be able to enter a space, but when you try to make everyone change that space to accommodate you, you're something of a social imperialist and douchebag at that point.

Honest question: Is it not social imperialism to only allow people to enter your space if they change to accommodate you? If not, then what's the difference?

I've mentioned this before, and what I always notice is how gendered it is: A man entering a predominately female space is expected to adapt to the space, but a woman entering a predominately male space expects the space to adapt to her.

Here's the real question: When an individual enters an existing environment, should they expect the environment and existing persons present to change to adapt to them, or should they expect to adapt themselves to the environment and persons within it? Because the answer *should* be wholly unrelated to gender, but in practice it *isn't*.

It's a competitive sport; trash gets talked in competitive sports.

There's trash, and then there's announcing the intent to commit a crime. I don't know what the law is like where the tournament took place, but where I live, that statement is technically assault.

So, better ban anyone who makes a comment about "killing" or "murdering" their opponent at a competitive game as well, right? No? Why not?

Nobody would have batted an eye if this comment was directed at a guy.

I would have.

You likely would never have heard of it unless you were watching the match in question if the comment were directed at a guy, because it wouldn't be considered newsworthy.

So now you've skewed the tournament in favor of women because they can just get offended at all the comments and win the tournament by offended>ban elimination.

That is not even close to what happened.

Yeah, that is some hyperbole right there. So long as the line for trash talk is the same for everyone, and followed for everyone, I don't see a real problem unless the line itself is gendered.

Maybe women are less visible because there are fewer female competitors.

Especially when a concurrent female only and men & women tourney shows more favoritism towards female players than male players.

Shh, it's like chess. When there's no good reason why men and women can't compete evenly, it's sexist to have a men's tournament, but not a women's tournament. Like chess.

This of course, ensures that the women aren't competitive with the men, by giving them the option to not have to compete with some opponents (having to deal with a lesser selection of opponents means you don't have to be as skilled, which means you'll tend not to be as skilled). You also see this in chess, where there's a large gap between female chess players who only play in women's tournaments and those who play in general tournaments.

 

[ILikeEggs]

Woman notices male player violating the conditions of participation in a tournament as well as announcing an intention to commit a violent crime, when his statement is interpreted literally. Woman reports the violater. What a crybaby, expecting her opponent to follow the rules of the tournament and to not say he intends to commit penetrative physical assault.

While the guy doing the trash-talking was an idiot, and probably deserved to be disqualified, you come off as massively pedantic and/or childish when you say 'he announces his intentions to commit a violent crime'. Please, don't be that guy.

 

[ILikeEggs]

Honestly, even if English was his first language, his tweet is not an announcement of his intention to commit a violent crime, within the context of a competitive video-game setting. Is it disgusting? Yes, yes it is. However, if you have even the slightest knowledge of competitive video-game culture, you'd know that everyone trash-talks and a lot of gamers talk about "raping" their opponents. I've even heard girls use similar phrases, but I don't recall any of these so-called "threats" actually carried out unlike what JimB seems to think.

 

[Denamic]

Where does the tournament actually put the line regarding trash talking?

It's a general code of conduct. Trashtalking or just generally being a dick will get you booted from most tournaments. This case is blown way out of proportions because he did it to a woman. If he'd said the same thing to a guy, no one would even bother to report it, and he might even have gotten away with just a warning. He did not actually threaten to literally rape her, and we all know it. He meant that he was about to severely beat her within the game. That much is obvious. This bullshit is just another form of sexism, really.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not against him being booted for trashtalking. Good riddance. It's the public reaction that's retarded.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Go look up his quotes...

No. If you thought it was important enough, you would have pasted the quotes yourself.

Good fucking riddance. Way to make the whole e-sports scene seem totally mature and respectable. What a fucking idiot.

Are most sports mature?

If he said "Gonna go rape some dude" this would not be news worthy and no one would have cared.

Think about that for a minute.

Yep, this is all about oppressing women white knighting.

 

[FogHornG36]

Go look up his quotes...

No. If you thought it was important enough, you would have pasted the quotes yourself.

most are nsfw and i would get banned...

I want to rip out his heart and feed it to Lennox Lewis. I want to kill people. I want to rip their stomachs out and eat their children.

nsfw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzfKnpg1bp0

 

[JimB]

Where does the tournament actually put the line regarding trash talking?

Couldn't tell you; I didn't sign up for it. If there is no such provision, then the tournament reserves the right to disqualify anyone it damn well pleases, and in either case no one has much room to complain.

Here's the real question: When an individual enters an existing environment, should they expect the environment and existing persons present to change to adapt to them, or should they expect to adapt themselves to the environment and persons within it?

It becomes in that instant a contest of who can enforce his will most effectively.

So, better ban anyone who makes a comment about "killing" or "murdering" their opponent at a competitive game as well, right?

If you're looking for me to argue against that position, you'll be disappointed. I cannot think of anything worth protecting about someone's right to announce an intent to kill or murder someone.

You likely would never have heard of it unless you were watching the match in question if the comment were directed at a guy, because it wouldn't be considered newsworthy.

I cannot control what media outlets choose to broadcast. I can only control my own reactions. Eye = batted.

Woman notices male player violating the conditions of participation in a tournament as well as announcing an intention to commit a violent crime, when his statement is interpreted literally.

While the guy doing the trash-talking was an idiot, and probably deserved to be disqualified, you come off as massively pedantic and/or childish when you say 'he announces his intentions to commit a violent crime.' Please, don't be that guy.

I don't think you finished reading the final six words of that first sentence. There is a qualifier attached to it. I just don't know how useful that qualifier is. I mean, I can rub as much sarcasm into it as I want, but the TSA will still only have the one option if I tell them I have a bomb in my duffel bag.

I'm sorry, but you're a fool if you honestly think that was an intent to commit actual rape.

See above paragraph about reading qualifiers.

As for the question of social imperialism, the answer is no, there is a difference. Anyone can form their own space, but a person should always adapt to the space they're entering, not try to warp it to fit them.

Why? If I see something wrong with a space, why oughtn't I try to change that?

Someone probably worked hard to cultivate a culture they wanted, and a lot of people enjoyed it too, which is why they joined, and why that culture was established.

Then presumably they can make a new space where women aren't allowed and the club's charter explicitly says, "No one gets to complain if someone says he'll rape you."

That means that no, not any person who waltzes into a long-founded culture should be able to demand everyone put everything down and cater to their needs, even if that person has a vagina.

Oh, it's her vagina that makes her entitled. Here I thought it was that she was a person who felt like she deserved basic levels of courtesy. Silly me, forgetting how everything a woman does is motivated by her sexual organs.

If it helps, think of it like a country. You can go into a country, borders are not very limited, but they have the right to reject you if you violate their laws and customs. It's the same thing with these spaces. That's why it's social imperialism.

So why wasn't the woman in this story rejected instead of the man who threatened rape? Sounds to me like he's the one who violated laws and customs in this instance.

 

[blackrave]

I'm all about rape jokes, especially when thy are funny
BUT
"Going to rape some girl soon #fragbitemasters."
Isn't a joke.
It's disgusting and plain stupid thing to say/write
Of course I understand what he meant
At no point actual rape was implied, I get it
And I know that people who barely have life aren't exactly socially experienced
But for godamnmuthafakingspankmyassandcallmesuzy sake, writing something like that is so out of
.
.
.
Dammit I run out of words again

Basically if you're going to mention or imply rape, make sure that at least in some alternative universe it could be considered funny.

P.S. As for disqualification, let's put it this way. If I would be in same tournament with him, I would be sad. Because his disqualification would mean I wouldn't be able to wipe floor with this prick.

 

[Neverhoodian]

While I agree with the decision (I've always disliked people using "rape" as a term for dominating someone in a video game. "ROFLstomp" is far superior), this really should have been labeled as an editorial for that last paragraph and closing statement. The Escapist's own ethical policies are quite clear on the matter:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12224-The-Official-Ethics-Policy-of-The-Escapist

"If staff members write personal opinions in a news post or in a forum thread, we will clearly identify them as the opinions of the writer and not as fact."

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I think this is great. Not the rape comment of course, but the fact that the ESports community is finally making some positive moves. In light of all of the horrible press they've had in the past this is a long time coming.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Y'know, they call it trash talking for a reason.

I'm not trying to justify such behavior; I'm just saying that the name alone rather accurately describes the kind of standards at work here. Truth in advertising, as it were.

Good fucking riddance. Way to make the whole e-sports scene seem totally mature and respectable. What a fucking idiot.

Well, it's not as though original "real" professional sports were bereft of such behavior.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Honestly, even if English was his first language, his tweet is not an announcement of his intention to commit a violent crime, within the context of a competitive video-game setting. Is it disgusting? Yes, yes it is. However, if you have even the slightest knowledge of competitive video-game culture, you'd know that everyone trash-talks and a lot of gamers talk about "raping" their opponents. I've even heard girls use similar phrases, but I don't recall any of these so-called "threats" actually carried out unlike what JimB seems to think.

I see this as an attempt to start culling language like that from the e-sports scene. A move that I approve of. I'm a sports fan and the trash talk I hear from the gaming community is far more vile and mean-spirited than pretty much anything I hear from basketball or football fans.