I loved the 64 version, CG version was way less fun, Wii version fits nicely in the middle I think.
Super Smash Creator Thinks Melee Was Too Hard
- Thread starter John Funk
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*Sigh.*
I remember the days where I didn't have to throw down a bunch of stipulations just to enjoy a game of Smash Bros Melee. Good times.
While I didn't really like Brawl myself (for other reasons unrelated to multiplayer/vs) it was gratifying to watch the tourney-only-players squirm.
I remember the days where I didn't have to throw down a bunch of stipulations just to enjoy a game of Smash Bros Melee. Good times.
Then came the dark ages where if you didn't wavedash, you were automatically a talentless scrub who shouldn't even dare to play the game. No really. Most tourney players I know (and I knew a LOT of self-proclaimed Smash Bros "Pros") had exactly that mentality.
It was like the instant you brought up Smash Bros, these people changed into someone completely different. Didn't help that that other "someone" was always a complete asshole.
I also remember when Brawl was announced. The tourney-goers who turned Smash Bros Melee into "Gamecube Controller Rape: The Game" were then pissing and moaning endlessly about how there was going to be no wavedashing or teching (pretentious, self-important fuckwits that they were) and then had the audacity to claim how that was going to "ruin the game".
Ruin? Ruined for them maybe. Now they didn't have artificial leverage over all the poor saps who didn't dedicate their life to mastering all of the unintentional glitches and abuses on Smashboards.
It finally got to the point where I witnessed a fist fight break out over the results of a tourney in Smash Bros Melee. Before you ask, actually no alcohol was involved.
That was the last time I played Melee with people who weren't close friends or relatives, because quite frankly, it was beyond lunacy at that point (especially at my college).
The depths some of these people would go towards just to stoke their ego was appalling; some friendships even ended over that stupid game.
Perhaps if these people actually played the game once in a while rather than obsess over how to beat maybe three other characters on one map using glitches, they would have noticed that Melee was a really fun game.
It was like the instant you brought up Smash Bros, these people changed into someone completely different. Didn't help that that other "someone" was always a complete asshole.
I also remember when Brawl was announced. The tourney-goers who turned Smash Bros Melee into "Gamecube Controller Rape: The Game" were then pissing and moaning endlessly about how there was going to be no wavedashing or teching (pretentious, self-important fuckwits that they were) and then had the audacity to claim how that was going to "ruin the game".
Ruin? Ruined for them maybe. Now they didn't have artificial leverage over all the poor saps who didn't dedicate their life to mastering all of the unintentional glitches and abuses on Smashboards.
It finally got to the point where I witnessed a fist fight break out over the results of a tourney in Smash Bros Melee. Before you ask, actually no alcohol was involved.
That was the last time I played Melee with people who weren't close friends or relatives, because quite frankly, it was beyond lunacy at that point (especially at my college).
The depths some of these people would go towards just to stoke their ego was appalling; some friendships even ended over that stupid game.
Perhaps if these people actually played the game once in a while rather than obsess over how to beat maybe three other characters on one map using glitches, they would have noticed that Melee was a really fun game.
While I didn't really like Brawl myself (for other reasons unrelated to multiplayer/vs) it was gratifying to watch the tourney-only-players squirm.
Turning off everything that makes the game fun is exactly the same reason why I dislike MLG and everything it does to video games, particularly Halo and Smash. Stripping out the variety takes away from fun and the skill of adaptability.
And if you want combos, I got combos son!WOPR said:
P.S. MvC 3 scares me. There are videos posted of Dante doing 100% combos already and the game isn't even out yet!
True, but the game still being tournament viable proved that it still had a good amount of depth to it regardless of it having so many random moments of utter insanity.RatRace123 said:
I just don't like what this spells for the franchise. I'm pretty convinced there will be a title of some sort for the 3DS, but what kind of game will it be?
i know this is a little off topic but i had never even heard of wavedashing before this thread, i consider myself quite good at brawl and meele and having just watched a video on wavedashing i honestly don't see how it gives you an advantage. If someone approached me at that speed i'd still have time to dodge away, or as i like to play link i could easily pull a spin attack outa my ass and send them flying. are you still considered dodging while you're wavedashing or something?
*EDIT*
ah i can see edge hogging being a ***** though
*EDIT*
ah i can see edge hogging being a ***** though
Personally, I liked Melee better. I couldn't even say why, it's just something about it I guess
The thing is, wavedashing is not needed to be goodAtmos Duality said:
Smash bros is the one game which I truly think I am good at, others I'm meh so take that as you will
But I can honestly tell you, whoever tells you that wavedashing was a vital technique is a idiot
I moved just as fast based on my reflexes and skill alone and I didn't need to take advantage of a stupid glitch
It certainly can enhance your ability if you were already good, but it was never a deal breaker if you didn't use it
I think brawl introduced a really, really bad element to it though and that was the rise of the camper
Flat courses like Final destination now benefit characters like pit who can spam you from the other side and then dodge when you come in to stop them and do it all over again(It is a beatable tactic, but christ did you have to work much harder than they ever would to beat them)
Tourney players I agree are idiots all around
Initially they thought Wario wasn't a good character, yet when I played him I found incredible potential there
Year later, he's on the top tier list when he was initally considered really crap
Then the ridiculous Final Destination only crap
Courses that were fine and didn't introduce random random elements or moved ( which does disadvantage certain characters, don't deny it)were still banned despite being perfectly fine
It's just ridiculous and its no wonder why MLG never took them seriously.
May I ask out of curiosity what that fistfight was about? How exactly did the player feel cheated?
As opposed to standing still and pressing down b every now and then. It's fun to jump at people in mid-air and counter. They can't grab while jumping, so I'm perfectly safe while doing so. Playing Marth was fun, but it was hard to beat someone who was the same size, only a little slower and had flame attacks.JoeNightmare said:
I did. Then I flood of memories (mostly bad) came at me.Dioxide20 said:
Ahh yes. You bring up the point of "a good game should be easy to learn but difficult to master". Melee was just that. You could learn how to fight rather easily. Yet the challenges were just that: challenging. I don't see the point of challenges if you can get every one of them in one go. At that point gaming is just busy work.Palademon said:
I've met good players who do not wavedash. I've played good players who do not wavedash.AsurasFinest said:
One of the best games I ever had was one of my friends as Zelda vs me as Fox* on one of the Kirby stages (the woods, I believe).
*(it's so sad that my favorite character from the original Smash Bros. turned out to be one of the most innately broken characters in melee. I had no idea that Fox was so good in the metagame when I started playing.)
But problem with wavedashing then wasn't just frame-skipping abuse, it was the attitude of these players who believed they were Gaming Jesus because they could do it.
Most of those I interacted with honestly thought that they were achieving a "Higher skill/calling" by mastering this skill to be used in an incredibly limited metagame they created.
That wasn't my specific problem with Brawl, but then again, Melee's competitive crowd left me with nothing by the time they were done ruining the game for me.
The one good thing to come out of this mess was that I eventually formed a gaming "thesis" on the concept of stagnant metagames in competitive/sports games, which in turn has helped me better understand game design, if only a little.
But I digress. My main problem with Brawl is the incredibly wonky and forgiving smash attack/velocity ratios. That is, the launch multiplier a character's attacks have when they go to finish a target off.
Between that effect, and stages that deliberately hate on whoever is in first place, the game can become incredibly frustrating to play at times.
That, and the Subspace Emissary sucked. Smash Bros. does not really translate very well into a platforming game I'm afraid (ironic, when one considers that it is descended directly from Kirby Superstar).
Ugh...it was so petty.
The loser accused the winner of having his friends intentionally distract him during the final matches; claiming that it wasn't becoming a problem until then.
Words were exchanged, and when words failed, fists were exchanged. I called campus security anonymously, then left. Though I think I left more than that crowd behind.
Really? I didn't think Melee was all that bad. It was only the more extreme challenges that gave me a hard time.
Incidentally, I think disallowing certain characters from tournaments is just a sign of poor sportsmanship. A truly skilled gamer, who had confidence in their skills, could win with any character against any character and wouldn't need to make pitiful excuses for their losses; and would instead, in the event of a loss, humbly acknowledge the superior skill of their opponent. It's called sportsmanship, it's not just exclusive to sports.
...sorry, got off on a tangent there.
Incidentally, I think disallowing certain characters from tournaments is just a sign of poor sportsmanship. A truly skilled gamer, who had confidence in their skills, could win with any character against any character and wouldn't need to make pitiful excuses for their losses; and would instead, in the event of a loss, humbly acknowledge the superior skill of their opponent. It's called sportsmanship, it's not just exclusive to sports.
...sorry, got off on a tangent there.
We're obviously playing the game for two different reasons. You may prefer the random chaos but my friends and I enjoy a fair challenge. I'm not judging, the game suits both kinds. I'm just saying that we find different things things entertaining.NameIsRobertPaulson said:
People play with no items, restricting characters, and Final Destination only? Yeesh. Why are you even playing Brawl? Just go and find some other more generic fighter. I'll be over here having fun. Hammer time.
The only thing I don't like about Brawl is that you have to unlock characters. People didn't get the game to play Subspace Emissary.
The only thing I don't like about Brawl is that you have to unlock characters. People didn't get the game to play Subspace Emissary.
Actually, there were several unavoidable final smashes. Most of the time, it depends on the stage. However, Captain Olimar's smash is almost completely unavoidable (you can avoid the ship he sends crashing back down, but not the beasts that show up when he flies away)NameIsRobertPaulson said:
Reminds me of a funny story. I participated in a small-stakes ($5 entry, winners split the pot) 2v2 Melee tourney with some friends. In the final match, it was only one opponent and me with 300% + health. I managed to take him out, winning the game for my teammate and I. We won $20 each? hehe.
Next year, we had another tournament and they banned everything I used to win. Mainly mid-air dodges, excessive roll dodges (none of use knew of or could wave-dash yet), items and excessive combo-ing?? (Whatever that meant). Because they'd taken away the tools I used to whomp them, I only entered the 1v1 (we did 2v2 and 1v1 tourneys this time) and lost in the semi-finals. Yes, the tournament organizers were the two people we beat last year. Middle schoolers are so petty
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Next year, we had another tournament and they banned everything I used to win. Mainly mid-air dodges, excessive roll dodges (none of use knew of or could wave-dash yet), items and excessive combo-ing?? (Whatever that meant). Because they'd taken away the tools I used to whomp them, I only entered the 1v1 (we did 2v2 and 1v1 tourneys this time) and lost in the semi-finals. Yes, the tournament organizers were the two people we beat last year. Middle schoolers are so petty
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Have to admit, I don't entirely agree with Sakurai that Melee was inaccessible at all...but frankly, I don't care. If that line of reasoning is what led him in Brawl, then clearly it wasn't all that bad. I do vastly prefer Brawl to Melee. Didn't even realize how much before trying Melee again (I'm sorry, I like the floatier physics, lower hitstun, and easier recoveries).
Or even Brawl Minus. The vastly enhanced character capabilities is kickass, but it also occasionally reminds me of how much I hate massive hitstun. Nothing like being gentlely launched off the stage at 80%, not be able to recover for four seconds, and stage-fault at insultingly low speed.
Actually, if there's one complaint I have, it's that they didn't bring back Poke Floats. I would gladly trade Yoshi's Island or Corneria for that. Speaking of...
75M can die in a fire. I like the idea, but it's too friggin' hard to navigate. Even Mario Bros. is better; that's also hard to get around, but the potential for very short, very ugly fights grew on me.
Admittedly, I do hang out with a somewhat better crowd; they're also okay with Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Smashville. And Pictochat, strangely. Still, it's only when there's just a few people that I can convince them to do more interesting stages like Pirate Ship, or Frigate Orpeon, or even Castle Siege.
Or even Brawl Minus. The vastly enhanced character capabilities is kickass, but it also occasionally reminds me of how much I hate massive hitstun. Nothing like being gentlely launched off the stage at 80%, not be able to recover for four seconds, and stage-fault at insultingly low speed.
I still like doing that...just replace Pokemon Stadium with Spear Pillar, depending on game. And throw in assist trophies for maximum chaos.Amnestic said:
Actually, if there's one complaint I have, it's that they didn't bring back Poke Floats. I would gladly trade Yoshi's Island or Corneria for that. Speaking of...
Oh, come on, Jungle Japes is great! The platform configuration is fun to play around, and all the water physics means is that falling is no longer instant death...barring a klaptrap, of course.
75M can die in a fire. I like the idea, but it's too friggin' hard to navigate. Even Mario Bros. is better; that's also hard to get around, but the potential for very short, very ugly fights grew on me.
Preach it!John Funk said:
Admittedly, I do hang out with a somewhat better crowd; they're also okay with Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, and Smashville. And Pictochat, strangely. Still, it's only when there's just a few people that I can convince them to do more interesting stages like Pirate Ship, or Frigate Orpeon, or even Castle Siege.