Super Smash Creator Thinks Melee Was Too Hard

[ChromeAlchemist]

Well damn...that was one of the greatest four player fighting games of all time (even better than the Naruto series, and trust me that series is so good). Brawl was still good, but I don't want to sound like one of those O.G. players who complain that their favourite fighting series is on a downward spiral into simplicity (a la Street Fighter). I fear I might.

That being said, random tripping made it clear that this game wasn't being made tournament viable.

Pokemon Stadium, only pokeballs, highest frequency occurence was my favourite combo, but I was more than happy to play pretty much any map.

Except the Donkey Kong ones. Screw you DK!

They both sucked. Who thought being dragged downstream when you touched the water was a good idea?

I think it was run by the fun police. Damn ass wipes woundn't even let me play as Kirby D:

I think I can top that. I played in a tournament a few years ago. I didn't really want to but the cash prize was pretty substantial. The tournament was run by a woman who had absolutely no idea what she was doing. She lost the memory card so she banned all "secret characters." That actually helped me, as I didn't have to deal with Marth. But then she made each round 4 players, stock 5, with a 4 minute timer. You can facepalm now.

In the first round, I killed off players two and three, while player four hid most of the time, so we were both at three lives when the timer ran out. Then when Sudden Death started, my finger slipped and the other guy got off the first shot. I was pretty pissed off. Definitely didn't play any more tournaments with them after that.

That woman should be perma-banned from society. Whether or not she should be fired into the sun is up to you.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Difficult is not the same as inaccessible. But yeah, I'm not a fan of boring play as mentioned in the article.

 

[timeadept]

Why not just add some harder modes and that way everyone wins in the next one?

It had them, 5? difficulty modes, ranging from very easy to very hard, and that was single player. In multilayer there were 9 lvls of AI and they could occupy any empty player slot, you could even pick their character or leave them as random. I really don't know what this guy is going on about, you can't "tune" the difficulty of other players, just the AI, and on the lowest level they would probably attack once every 5 seconds and then walk around like an idiot. I can't imagine making the AI easier than that without making them completely passive.

 

[timeadept]

Why not just add some harder modes and that way everyone wins in the next one?

It had them, 5? difficulty modes, ranging from very easy to very hard, and that was single player. In multilayer there were 9 lvls of AI and they could occupy any empty player slot, you could even pick their character or leave them as random. I really don't know what this guy is going on about, you can't "tune" the difficulty of other players, just the AI, and on the lowest level they would probably attack once every 5 seconds and then walk around like an idiot. I can't imagine making the AI easier than that without making them completely passive.

 

[timeadept]

Why not just add some harder modes and that way everyone wins in the next one?

It had them, 5? difficulty modes, ranging from very easy to very hard, and that was single player. In multilayer there were 9 lvls of AI and they could occupy any empty player slot, you could even pick their character or leave them as random. I really don't know what this guy is going on about, you can't "tune" the difficulty of other players, just the AI, and on the lowest level they would probably attack once every 5 seconds and then walk around like an idiot. I can't imagine making the AI easier than that without making them completely passive.

 

[timeadept]

holy shit! triple post?!?

 

[zHellas]

Two words.

Cruel. Brawl.

Could ANYONE do that!?

What was that one? I forgot.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

Pokemon Stadium, only pokeballs, highest frequency occurence was my favourite combo, but I was more than happy to play pretty much any map.

Except the Donkey Kong ones. Screw you DK!

They both sucked. Who thought being dragged downstream when you touched the water was a good idea?

*Raises hand* The point of those maps was that they were heavily focused on platforming skills. As I like platforming, the idea of doing it competitively in the context of Smash Bros. was exciting to me. As for the water, what else would it do? Let you swim in it, and then make it so the only way to kill people is knocking them off the sides? Not exist, and just have you die by falling into the same space, except instead of water, you fall into emptiness? It's there mostly for atmosphere, but also to give you a slight chance to escape.

 

[Escapefromwhatever]

OOPS. CRAP POST.

 

[Youthius]

I'm not the only one who thought one on one at Final Destination with no items was the most fun, right?

Ofc not. Me and my firends always played on Final Destination,and still do to be honest.

 

[GinraiPrime]

When I play Melee even now, I only usually turn certain items off but keep most of them on because to me part of the challenge is outwitting the opponent even if they have an item, you feel more proud of your victory if your opponent has the hammer, they think you're going out and then you just kick their ass before they think what the fuck?!

Melee has always been my fave in the series. I got nothing wrong with Brawl and I can see what Sakurai is saying but if anything, I dunno if anyone will agree with me here, theres certain mechanics introduced in Brawl that really irratate me, such as you can often slip when you run and that just leaves you vulnerable. Its annoying and it often breaks the game for me at some points. Melee didn't have such a mechanic and its just such a joy to play even 9 years later. It still retains the "easy to pick up, hard to master" trait which makes it so awesome but I know afew hardcore gamers who don't even go near Smash Bros. and consider it not fun because of its easy accessability. As for limiting to ONLY Final Destination, c'mon tournament players, wheres the variety?! I often held mini-tournaments with some friends and it never matters what stages we went on, its part of the challenge to survive the stages aswell as avoid your opponents. Limiting the stages and choices just makes it uninteresting and a drag to even play

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

I just can't believe we're not going to get something like this again.

Two words.

Cruel. Brawl.

Could ANYONE do that!?

What was that one? I forgot.

basically the wireframes, which are normally piss weak, can be knocked off in one hit and are level one difficulty, are monstrously strong, very heavy in weight and are level 7-9 in difficulty.

Cruel Brawl wanted nothing more than to see you and your family suffer.

Sounds like he's talking apples and oranges to me. There really is no link between approachability/accessibility and depth/balance. A well designed game, not just in the realm of fighting games, can and should have both.

Exactly, like Street Fighter IV.

I see it as a crappy button masher that anyone can pick-up and master

there's nothing hard about spamming B then spamming A when people get close

in the mean time
WHERE'S KI3?!

Haw. If you can pick up the game and instantly have the reaction time of a god and a firm grasp of the game's physics, then sure. But I'm positive this isn't the case. In this game if you're a low level player facing a pro, the difference in skill is obvious.

Then again you just asked where KI3 is, so I guess I just got trolled.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Melee was awesome. I don't see how it was too complex or anything... It would only have been better if adventure mode was more random and not the same thing every time. Brawl, on the other hand, sucked.

 

[Clarkarius]

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but did'nt Brawl have a faster pace then Melee? Or have years of playing as the same character just made me notice the fine tuning in regards to character balencing. Kirby seemed a lot faster in Brawl from what I remember even if his dash attack did get nerfed a bit.

 

[IamQ]

I actualy went to a tournament at my local library for Melee, most boring 2 hours of my life. No items, just final destination, and we could only play as Mario, Link, Samus or Fox.....

Tournaments suck for Super Smash Bros games. They're so serious that they only use characters that are documented as "the best", and apparently you are a super-noob if you use items.

Bullshit I say.

 

[GinraiPrime]

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but did'nt Brawl have a faster pace then Melee? Or have years of playing as the same character just made me notice the fine tuning in regards to character balencing. Kirby seemed a lot faster in Brawl from what I remember even if his dash attack did get nerfed a bit.

I was more annoyed at Mr Game & Watch getting nerfed severely but yeah I agree with you, I think it might be abit of both, characters moving quicker but also due to the fact we've been playing for years we seem to pick up on this sort of thing.
It would be awesome to see another entry in the Smash Bros. series but I guess we'll just have to wait and see

 

[Fleaman]

Dormmates and I, sitting around a Gamecube for about a year, 3-stock FFA. Real men pick random characters, y'know. Only by playing as Pichu against three Marths can you reach Nirvana.

You still lose, of course, because MARF. But playing in an environment where a Captain Falcon who leaps off of Final Destination to knee a falling Luigi, and dies in the process, is considered the real winner is the best thing on earth. Brawl just never managed to approach those peaks.

Still played no items though, because after a while it became clear that anyone who picked up a fan or a sword was going to win.

I get what Sakurai is after. He wants to create a party game, where crazy shit happens and everyone laughs. That's why Brawl's stages are so much more ornery than Melee's; so random deaths can occur. And it does happen, Falco trips and eats a GANON HELL SLAUGHTER FIST, and there's laughter, but there's also RAAAGE, and one guy raging can really bring things down for the whole room. I don't have an alternative to propose, except to suggest that some people have cool friends and others have friends who try hard, and that no amount of game design is going to fix them.

 

[PrimoThePro]

I disagree to this completely. It may have been challenging, but that is what made it fun to unlock it 100%. Fighting Giga Bowser was the greatest!

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

I find both Brawl and Melee to be fun. I'll admit Melee more like it was built for hardcore players as opposed to Brawl, which seems to be more accessible and more crazy, though. I still like them both.

I do hate it when people are like "No items on Final Destination! Its the only "fair" way to play!" No it isn't! It helps people with certain strategies but it hurts people with others (like me). I enjoy throwing items around (not all of them, mainly just the weapons) and moving around the map to avoid attacks and using the terrain to my advantage. If I wanted to play a straight up beat the shit out of each other on a flat area, I'd pop in Street Fighter or Soulcaliber.

Yeah playing on some maps are more annoying than others (the Ice Climber one in Melee, we never played that) and some items weren't all that fun. But "No items on Final Destination" gets boring after the umpteenth time.