Super straight on tiktok

[TheMysteriousGX]

We (general we) aren't going to be able to convince people to like a physical trait that they don't. People are murky like that, and that's fine as long as they aren't being weird about it.
Long as people like Satinavian aren't treating dude's who're bearing their children like they're women, that's a win.

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[Neuromancer]

I didn't know the Amish allowed the use of computers.

No, but for real, would it be out of line if I guessed that you're a Jehova's Witness?

He's a Catholic.

 

[McElroy]

"Being Bad at sex is straight culture" by the definition of culture being: "the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group " implies all straight people are bad at sex. If someone said "being a rapist is black culture" or "being greedy is Jewish culture" I don't think anyone would be going "Oh hang on a minute, that didn't mean ALL of them, its not a bigoted statement, merely an opinion"

Dude, you're getting into some rough territory here. This is a dumb argument, but it doesn't imply what you're saying even in the dictionary definition you helpfully brought up. Terminal Blue clarified what they meant so I think that's the end of it.

Now, what is dangerous is the fact that insecure heteros might unironically associate with Super-Straight as a concept, completely unaware of the iconographic ties to Far-Right movement, and then get progressively sucked in deeper. That's how these things go, after all. You start by cheekily thumbing a few right-leaning memes and a few months later, you're sitting at your keyboard thinking you've been charged with defending Ben Shapiro's honor.

This idea of nazis lurking around every corner, and ready to turn anyone who engages with some anti-SJW memes is the bottomless and ever widening rift between regular people and progressive social media addicts (or whatever you wanna call that heavy-user demographic). Like, how do you cross SuperStraight = neo-holocaust?

Well I am God, so that should give you a good idea of why I'd think that.

Dammit, I thought I had Him on my side.

 

[Satinavian]

Long as people like Satinavian aren't treating dude's who're bearing their children like they're women, that's a win.

As i said, i am agender and don't really get gender. Aside from using names/pronouns i wouldn't even know how to treat him as a woman.

 

[Dreiko]

As i said, i am agender and don't really get gender. Aside from using names/pronouns i wouldn't even know how to treat him as a woman.

A lot of talk which between guys is ok would count as sexual harassment if you aim it at women so that's a good one to keep in mind to avoid misunderstandings. Also you likely wouldn't wanna reciprocate violence as quickly as you would vs a guy. If a woman is violent at you treating her like a woman is akin to treating her like a child and just trying to get her to stop before she hurts herself meanwhile if it's a guy you just fight back to end it quickly.

 

[Satinavian]

I don't really agree with any of that.

Talk does not switch much between appropriate or inappropriate based on who hears it and i never really experienced this infamous locker-room-talk. And while I generally and successfully avoid violence in my daily life outside of things that could be classified as sports i don't think i treat men/women much differently there.

 

[tstorm823]

The authoritarianism is the messed up part. If CM wants to submit to said authoritarianism, that's cool. All communities would have some strictures but what they are describing seems very excessive.

But then, what did Sean expect? This is very common in religious communities today. Living outside a very narrow window of reality is generally seen as evil and must be purged at all costs.

I don't know about CM, but I'm a Catholic. Catholic Matrimony is centered around reproduction. It's name is derived from motherhood. Gender transitions and same-sex marriage aren't compatible with that view of marriage. I don't think that's excessive at all, it's just different than the current popular conception of marriage.

Very, very few religious communities hold the view that evil must be purged, even fewer would say at all costs. I'm in the largest denomination of the largest major religion on the planet, and I would not say we have a narrow window of reality, nor does the Church teach that evil must be purged at all costs. Everyone's a sinner, we ask for forgiveness, not purity.

 

[Agema]

Very, very few religious communities hold the view that evil must be purged, even fewer would say at all costs. I'm in the largest denomination of the largest major religion on the planet, and I would not say we have a narrow window of reality, nor does the Church teach that evil must be purged at all costs. Everyone's a sinner, we ask for forgiveness, not purity.

A Catholic friend of mine got divorced years ago. Obviously, a very difficult time, and awkward in terms of her church. Her fellow congregants were for the most part quite unfriendly to her. The priest however was a great support: as she explained his opinion to me, whilst the Chuch may disapprove of divorce, reality is what it is and the Church is in the business of saving souls, not condemning them.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't know about CM, but I'm a Catholic. Catholic Matrimony is centered around reproduction. It's name is derived from motherhood. Gender transitions and same-sex marriage aren't compatible with that view of marriage. I don't think that's excessive at all, it's just different than the current popular conception of marriage.

How about infertile people, or those who just don't intend to have kids?

Not intending to be hostile here, just wondering in this instance.

 

[Satinavian]

For Catholizism marriage is not meant for for people who don't want kids. Infertility, well, that happens.

 

[CM156]

I didn't know the Amish allowed the use of computers.

No, but for real, would it be out of line if I guessed that you're a Jehova's Witness?

You wouldn't be out of line for guessing it, but you would be incorrect.

He's a Catholic.

Bingo.

 

[Dreiko]

I don't really agree with any of that.

Talk does not switch much between appropriate or inappropriate based on who hears it and i never really experienced this infamous locker-room-talk. And while I generally and successfully avoid violence in my daily life outside of things that could be classified as sports i don't think i treat men/women much differently there.

Less locker room talk, more general positive appearance-based comments is what I had in mind. With a guy you can just give em a compliment and they won't interpret it as demeaning because they will not feel like all their worth is based on their appearance and project that insecurity on your innocent comment. They also won't think you're hitting on them or being creepy either. With women if you go up to a stranger and are like "that's a nice shirt where did you get it?" they'd think you're hitting on them or cat calling them or something meanwhile I've had a dude ask me that multiple times based on the anime or game that my shirt was based on and that was just them being curious about it, which all of the times resulted in a cool conversation with a stranger about my shirt. One time I even had a 5 minute talk about the convention I got my shirt at in a Trader Joe's with a couple of dudes all because of this. Stuff like that is much more common than sexual locker room talk.


As for sports I guess it depends on the type of sport you do since some of those usually are segregated by sex and others don't have much physical contact, like I'm sure if you do Judo you will have to toss em down either way, but yeah that's not really what I had in mind. Basically you're always in the wrong if you fight back in a regular violence situation so you kinda have to just treat em like children and try to de-escalate.

 

[SilentPony]

Dude, you're getting into some rough territory here. This is a dumb argument, but it doesn't imply what you're saying even in the dictionary definition you helpfully brought up. Terminal Blue clarified what they meant so I think that's the end of it.

The fuck are you talking about? I asked, bluntly, what Terminal Blue meant by a straight warped view of sex, and his response was fuck all. If anything it seems like there is no non-bigoted clarification and no one wants to admit it.
And the only rough territory are the people who defend bigotry and prejudice. I ain't worried about where I am because I'm not the bigot.

Surely that's little different from, say, people outside the US talking about US politics or culture? It's everywhere and can't really be escaped by most people on the Escapist.

I would argue that politics is open to the public and is all over the news. I don't remember seeing MSNBC covering straight sex, I can't remember the last time I saw a couple going at it at Walmart, or the last orgy at foot locker I attended. Straight sex just isn't something the public engages in in well...public.

I've been straight my whole life and this idea of an 'inescapable warped view of sex'(A very Slaaneshi sounding phase) is not only news to me, its news to straight people. It doesn't even have an Urban Dictionary page. Which makes me think its just someone who had a bad experience generalizing all straight people.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Valuing a community is messed up now, you heard it here first.

That's a lot more specific than valuing a community.

 

[SilentPony]

One of the fellows I talked with phrased it like this. "If you met someone who was, by all standards your perfect partner, appearance, personality, interests, everything except the sexual organs, wouldn't you be pretty stupid to reject the possibility of a perfect relationship?"

I mean isn't the response to this that they're clearly not your perfect partner? Sex is a very serious part of romantic relationship, I can't imagine being with someone, not having a full filling sex life and pretending its a perfect match.
Imagine a straight woman who wants to be a mother answering this question. They find the perfect man, perfect partner, appearance, personality, interests, everything except the sexual organs, they don't have a penis and don't produce sperm, and thus can never father a child with her. I don't think she would describe that as the perfect partner. What you're describing in a perfect plutonic friend, because if you're not interested in having sex with them, what they have for sex organs isn't a concern.
To be the perfect partner for you I think we have to assume they have the sex organs you want to have sex with, and vice versa. Otherwise "perfect" just doesn't apply.
Just change any one other aspect and you'll see what I'm talking about: perfect partner, sex organs, personality, interests, everything except you can't stand the sight of them
perfect partner, appearance, sex organs, interests, everything except you can't stand their personality
Suddenly they're a lot less perfect

 

[Satinavian]

Less locker room talk, more general positive appearance-based comments is what I had in mind. With a guy you can just give em a compliment and they won't interpret it as demeaning because they will not feel like all their worth is based on their appearance and project that insecurity on your innocent comment. They also won't think you're hitting on them or being creepy either. With women if you go up to a stranger and are like "that's a nice shirt where did you get it?" they'd think you're hitting on them or cat calling them or something meanwhile I've had a dude ask me that multiple times based on the anime or game that my shirt was based on and that was just them being curious about it, which all of the times resulted in a cool conversation with a stranger about my shirt. One time I even had a 5 minute talk about the convention I got my shirt at in a Trader Joe's with a couple of dudes all because of this. Stuff like that is much more common than sexual locker room talk.

Still don't see much difference. Sure a person presuming you are romantically interested in them might interpret compliments differently than one who is not, but that is really about gender, is it ?

As for sports I guess it depends on the type of sport you do since some of those usually are segregated by sex and others don't have much physical contact, like I'm sure if you do Judo you will have to toss em down either way, but yeah that's not really what I had in mind. Basically you're always in the wrong if you fight back in a regular violence situation so you kinda have to just treat em like children and try to de-escalate.

A lot of sports have gender separation for competitions but do mixed training, especially if it is not a team sport.
The violent sports i have more personal experience are various kinds of fencing, both historical and modern, but more modern. I was never actually that good and my experiences are limited, but i have never seen a club that was not mixed and i have also never seen anyone holding back against women, no matter if modern sport foil or German style fencing in plade armor with two handed long swords.

As for other situations, if i were convinced that violence would be justified and necessary i would apply it regardless of the opponents gender or sex. If I can reasonably avoid violence against a woman, i can do so as well against a man. It wouldn't even change threat asessment if size and build are already accounted for.

 

[McElroy]

I've been straight my whole life and this idea of an 'inescapable warped view of sex'(A very Slaaneshi sounding phase) is not only news to me, its news to straight people. Which makes me think its just someone who had a bad experience generalizing all straight people.

You just lack the perspective -- might as well consider yourself lucky -- but now you double down pointing at perceived bigotry that is not there. This line of yours

And the only rough territory are the people who defend bigotry and prejudice. I ain't worried about where I am because I'm not the bigot.

is pathetic. There is no reasoning with that. Winner is you.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Okay this requires clarification. Warped idea of sex?

Straight culture has a deeply warped ideas and priorities about sex. These ideas aren't conducive to sex being fun or mutually enjoyable. Straight culture equates sex with penetration, straight culture prescribes rigid sexual roles for men and women, straight culture prescribes a normative but unacknowledged dominance and submission relationship between partners, straight culture views male pleasure as the purpose on sex and female pleasure as a kind of side effect or compensation, straight culture is about performance, straight culture views sex primarily as a means of demonstrating sufficiency for men, straight culture views sex primarily as a bargaining chip for women, straight culture ascribes penises which magical powers, straight culture views any attention given to any part of the female genitals as an act of supreme generosity, straight culture is still ultimately bound up in the idea that sex is a tool for making babies, securing intimacy or asserting personal worth, rather than a pleasurable and worthwhile act in and of itself.

If you don't think you've absorbed these ideas and beliefs, then good. To some extent, you've broken out of straight culture. That's nice for you, keep doing it. But you should also consider the possibility that you just have no point of comparison, and no concept of what any alternative cultural model of sex or intimacy could look like. That's the problem with being heterosexual, you never have to consider the culture you live in from an outside perspective. When you do, it becomes very strange.

 

[SilentPony]

Straight culture has a deeply warped ideas and priorities about sex. These ideas aren't conducive to sex being fun or mutually enjoyable. Straight culture equates sex with penetration, straight culture prescribes rigid sexual roles for men and women, straight culture prescribes a normative but unacknowledged dominance and submission relationship between partners, straight culture views male pleasure as the purpose on sex and female pleasure as a kind of side effect or compensation, straight culture is about performance, straight culture views sex primarily as a means of demonstrating sufficiency for men, straight culture views sex primarily as a bargaining chip for women, straight culture ascribes penises which magical powers, straight culture views any attention given to any part of the female genitals as an act of supreme generosity, straight culture is still ultimately bound up in the idea that sex is a tool for making babies, securing intimacy or asserting personal worth, rather than a pleasurable and worthwhile act in and of itself.

If you don't think you've absorbed these ideas and beliefs, then good. To some extent, you've broken out of straight culture. That's nice for you, keep doing it.

...yeah that's not straight sex, what you just described is an abusive sexual relationship. You've taken an abusive relationship and generalized it to assume all straight sex is abusive, and that's not healthy. Might as well have thrown in non-consensual sex as part of this "inescapable warped idea of sex" straight people have for all this talk of magically penises and bargaining chips. This doesn't read like someone who has had a lot of sex, this reads like someone who has only known abusive sexual relationships.

You just lack the perspective -- might as well consider yourself lucky -- but now you double down pointing at perceived bigotry that is not there. This line of yours

is pathetic. There is no reasoning with that. Winner is you.

I'm not the one who thinks bigotry is okay so long as its against people you don't like. And I'll post the definition of bigotry just in case anyone forgot:
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

And lets take the quote "Being Bad at sex is straight culture" This is a general statement that applies to all straight sex culture, which means its judging all straight sex culture without having sex with everyone in that culture. Why I believe that meats the definition of prejudice:
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Unless Terminal Blue is claiming to have had sex with every single straight person, and I don't think they are, then they can't possible know all of straight sex culture, which makes the opinion preconceived.
And seeings how the opinion is expressed at straight sex culture that certainly makes it a particular group.

So yeah...bigotry and prejudice. Like you said, the winner is me.