Sweden: Piracy Is Not A Religion

[Lullabye]

Aw, I came in here expecting a Patafarian thread. Oh well.
After reading the article, I have to laugh. People these days...

 

[Swedmarine]

Would you please refer me to what place in the Bible, or other holy scripture, it says that's part of the religion? I fear that what you've found is something made up by the individual and not the religion itself.

the book of Genesis, the old testament. There you go

Ah, but it is not the Old Testament that the Christians follows. That part of the Bible is only included to make context for what Jesus does in the New Testament.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Sounds more rational than any other religion I've heard of recently.

 

[samsonguy920]

I really just don't know what to say or add to this other than to say this is either trollin, or just a weak attempt to escape from the consequences of their actions. Seems to be the thing to do this century.
Now, excuse me while I pound the stupid out of my head over here against this wall. If I fall down, please call the paramedics for me, won't you?

 

[Ghengis John]

Ouch, a bit of hypocrisy there - stealing physical goods is ok/understandable, but entertainment isn't? Really?

No. No hypocrisy at all really. I don't think you understand me. Food and clothes are essentials people need to survive. If some one needs to steal those to live I could understand that. However, one does not need to steal the new Lady Gaga album to live (at least, not without some hilariously baroque circumstances) so I draw the line there. You can spare me the rest of the rant. I'd have the same problem if you stole the cd or boot legged it off the internet. If at some point, you are starving, earnestly trying to find work and not succeeding and, having exhausted all other options, you figure out a way to download bread, then by all means, be my guest.

Not quite, you see, a lot of pirates nowadays truly don't buy games anymore, they only download, meaning that if they were never planning to buy it the one less copy sold argument is invalid since they weren't ging to buy it anyways. therefore the developers lose no money since they would never have gained the money even if the download was somehow prevented.

It's a very complicated issue, one i cannot quite form a definite opinion on

Yeah but by your admission these people don't buy things because they can pirate. So how can you assume they won't buy anything if the option to pirate was removed? I seriously hope on the other hand that you aren't trying to excuse thievery as some kind of matter of principal. Because that would be stupid.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Well.... Piracy is Illegal and I assume the files they where copying were copyright protected. and a religion that is about something illegal should not be allowed. The same reason why practicing old norse rituals are illegal (atleast the ones with human sacrifice)

That's not how it works! My religion believes that Mass Murder is the only true way to be in touch with our divine spirits! And theft! And also speeding while intoxicated! Now make me a church so that I can get away with these illegal practices!

 

[luvd1]

I fekin hate students. "look at me! I'm going to blow your mind with my way out ideas. Ain't I clever" ... Gods, no your not. Like those who put Jedi down as their belief thinking they are being "Zany" they should be punched in the face by gandhi. Over blown egos. I blame Ra.

 

[squid5580]

What we have is essientaly the power to make somthing out of nothing. It takes 0 raw materials to make a digital book, movie, game, etc.

I'm afraid quite a bit of time and money goes into creating these things. A development team for a game or an author for a book have their own bills to pay. You yourself know this:

At the same time, I undertsand that people put their time and money into these things, and they lose their sales like this.

Stealing, is stealing amigo. If you make a digital copy of something that's one less copy sold. I can understand stealing food, or clothes, but entertainment?

Well.... Piracy is Illegal and I assume the files they where copying were copyright protected. and a religion that is about something illegal should not be allowed. The same reason why practicing old norse rituals are illegal (atleast the ones with human sacrifice)

But should it be illegal?

See, theres the issue.

What we have is essientaly the power to make somthing out of nothing. It takes 0 raw materials to make a digital book, movie, game, etc.

You have a limitless supply of these products. Why not share them? What if we could do this with food or water? would you still call it theft then?

At the same time, I undertsand that people put their time and money into these things, and they lose their sales like this.

This is one of the few issues where I am truly divided in my opinion.

Except that it did cost materials to make it. Not the digital version, the actual version. If I wrote a song, I'm probably inclined to want to make money off of it. If I want to share it for free, then I will. If I want my hard work to be rewarded, then that's my decision. A bunch of people who have never created content in their life can make up all the justification they want for illegally downloading things that someone worked hard to create, but that doesn't make it right. If they want to download music and not pay for it, that's one thing. Moralizing and trying to make themselves look like the good guys is bullshit, though.

Well.... Piracy is Illegal and I assume the files they where copying were copyright protected. and a religion that is about something illegal should not be allowed. The same reason why practicing old norse rituals are illegal (atleast the ones with human sacrifice)

But should it be illegal?

See, theres the issue.

What we have is essientaly the power to make somthing out of nothing. It takes 0 raw materials to make a digital book, movie, game, etc.

You have a limitless supply of these products. Why not share them? What if we could do this with food or water? would you still call it theft then?

At the same time, I undertsand that people put their time and money into these things, and they lose their sales like this.

This is one of the few issues where I am truly divided in my opinion.

How can you be divided ?
Games are aluxery. Developers make them in return for moneybecuase they are people too, they need it to survive, for families, etc.

You may say your not taking aything, but you are with holding money. t would be like paying a mechanic to fix your car, but not paying him, or havine a carpenter make something for you if you buy the wood.

As I said, I understand that people put their time, effort, and money into making them.

IDW, I guess, I see both sides of the argument, and they both have damn good points. I wouldn't illegally download stuff unless the maker said it was okay with them, so I guess i'm leaning on the side that's wrong. Actually, I know it's wrong, but I wonder if it should be.

Think, if 150 years ago you told someone we would be able infinatly copy certain items at no cost, do you think that they would expect us to still pay for them?

In a ideal world (how a world with a monetary system can be ideal is beyond me, but), you wouldn't pay for games, books, movies, or anything digital. Instead, people would voluntary donate money to the creators they like.

You are talking about taking something that no one created and sharing it with all. Water is free. Falls from the sky. It doesn't need anyone to make it, no one needs to spend their time/money to make it and so if we figured out how to duplicate it and share it with the world for free then who gets hurt?

Movies, music and games require vast resources to create. People spend their time and money to create it for not only love but to survive. Consider this. You work at Mcdonalds. You are serving and cooking Mcdonald's food that you don't have any rights to but you are cooking. And in a sense creating. So is it right for your boss to come up to you one day and say hey we aren't gonna pay you for your last 2 weeks of work. We decided that since this food isn't yours you have no right to get paid for cooking and serving it. But please keep up the good work.

 

[weirdee]

Wait, is that supposed to say "feathered"? I mean, you got 'tethered', and 'fettered', but you can't have both of them at the same time...

 

[vxicepickxv]

I can agree with this.

All hail lord Hypnotoad, lord of the beguiling eyes, bringer of truths, the great nap maker.

 

[Aeshi]

Between the "Piracy is Legal" Law, The Pirate Bay, the "SWE?"tards and this I'm amazed we still let this miserable place exist.

Seems like you could greatly improve the Internet/World just by nuking Sweden till the snow glows green.

 

[OrokuSaki]

I think it should be allowed. Major corporations get to slide on trade practices through loopholes every day. So why not let the Swedish make a religion out of piracy?

In fact, I would join this religion, just to stand up for the internet. Because seriously, filtering the content of the internet and policing it like a military state is just going to anger the Germans (internet-freedom groups), and then they'll go off killing the Jews (Major business sites) and try to take over the world. All because you couldn't give them their little religion.

 

[Nuke_em_05]

I'm inspired.

I'm starting work on my church of money laundering.

You see, we need the right to confidentiality to protect our clients. The act of money laundering isn't inherently illegal; some people have personal reasons to hide their legitimate income and expenses. We should not be forced to compromise their privacy just because some people occasionally use money laundering to cover up illegal business transactions.

That's actually my stance on file-sharing. I do understand the distinction between file-sharing, and file-sharing copyrighted materials. As far as file-sharing copyrighted materials, no. They are copyrighted because it cost money to produce, and they were produced with the intent of making profit, not being distributed freely.

The biggest problem I see in proponents of copyright file-sharing is that they do not understand that copyright is not about raw materials. The price of a book, VHS tape, audio CD, software cd/dvd, blu-ray disc, etc. is not a reflection of the cost of materials and labor used to create the physical media, but the cost of producing the content contained therein.

Products such as these are not units of production, but units of consumption; it doesn't matter how the content is reproduced, but that the content is consumed.

However, that is an inconvenient realization that copyright file-sharing proponents will not come to willingly.

 

[Live4Lotus]

I'm not a big fan of piracy...if someone makes something that they want to make money on, I have no problem with that.

However, this isn't just about piracy. Piracy prevention is used as an excuse to monitor web traffic, emails, forum ports, and just about everything you do online. "Piracy" is used the same way online that "terrorism" is used offline...as an excuse to break laws that are there to protect normal people.

As long as groups like WikiLeaks can't host their own files because the governments of the world illegally block them, I will fully support the right to download anonymously...because I don't know if they are downloading Duke Nukem or proof of a government coverup...and I know that I don't want the government to be able to block them from downloading said proof.

All hail the mighty FiOS!

 

[dyre]

Well.... Piracy is Illegal and I assume the files they where copying were copyright protected. and a religion that is about something illegal should not be allowed. The same reason why practicing old norse rituals are illegal (atleast the ones with human sacrifice)

But should it be illegal?

See, theres the issue.

What we have is essientaly the power to make somthing out of nothing. It takes 0 raw materials to make a digital book, movie, game, etc.

You have a limitless supply of these products. Why not share them? What if we could do this with food or water? would you still call it theft then?

At the same time, I undertsand that people put their time and money into these things, and they lose their sales like this.

This is one of the few issues where I am truly divided in my opinion.

Yup, basically it's not actually "something out of nothing," because human resources are still resources. People (who haven't studied economics) think that the only costs involved in making something are capital goods, but human labor costs money too. Not to mention rent, advertising, blah blah blah

 

[DaJoW]

Last I checked, piracy was legal in Sweden. Copyright means nothing in other country's, which is why Valve can't do anything about the TF2 ripoff being developed in china.

Not exactly, it's illegal to upload copyrighted things but not download. And copyright means something here, we just don't have your vicious lobbies.

I get that this is Sweden where it is illegal to chew gum in public but seriously.

What? Just... what?

OT: I believe the government has the right not to formally recognize any religion. It's not stopping them from practicing, it's just that they don't get the privileges (which should be removed) of formally recognized ones.

 

[Strazdas]

first of all, the title is wrong, because this "church" has nothing to do with piracy. file sharing does not equal piracy (piracy is a wrong term anyway, somalia has pirates, we have intellectual property thieves). there are many program authors that share their installs on p2p protocols because it saves on hosting costs when the users seed themselves.

Secondly, there are more pirates than christians...

P.S. haha, capcha tells me to type "pork pies".

 

[Strazdas]

Yeah, but even if you share files because of your religious belief you're still going to jail, the same way you're still going to jail if you kill someone under the orders of Odin.

Or if you molest children before Christ. Oh no, that one's ok actually. Huh.

Would you please refer me to what place in the Bible, or other holy scripture, it says that's part of the religion? I fear that what you've found is something made up by the individual and not the religion itself.

Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

"This time, we can't really see any real reason for our denial."

I-
Wh-
You know what? That is the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

 

[Wicky_42]

Would you please refer me to what place in the Bible, or other holy scripture, it says that's part of the religion? I fear that what you've found is something made up by the individual and not the religion itself.

Oh, I'm not talking about scripture, I'm talking about real life circumvention of the law using religion as a shield.

I will admit to not being well-read on these molestations and the legal bits surrounding them. In what way are the molesters protected?

Also, please call it something else than "molest children before Christ." It makes it sound like you believe it's actually a part of the Christian religion.

it doesn't take long to find stuff on the topic - it's pretty much general knowledge if you've been keeping half an eye on the news over the last few years. [http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pope+on+child+molestation]