Sword Fighting in Games Is Dull

[jjboat]

Damnit. I had this idea too. hadn't thought it out quiet this much, but i used as a battle system design for a college class a couple of years back. Having an endurance meter would be an awesome way to show cinematic combat without having to alter simple hack and slash gameplay. the other factors you mention would be great for an in depth dueling game, but the endurance meter with defensive animations would be great and easier to implement without altering traditional gameplay too much.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Id say that Assassins Creed Brotherhood has a very fun melee system, the killstreak system is fluid and very fun to use, while the counters are still very satisfying it took away a lot of the tedium from the previous two by making so that its viable to kill enemies without waiting for them to attack

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

Interesting...

Though, I have to admit, I enjoyed Oblivion's combat despite how obviously unrealistic it is. To be honest, all this complaining about how swordfights in games are totally unrealistic is starting to sound exactly like all that complaining a few years ago about how shooters were unrealistic.

And when we got our wish we all started wanting everything to be like it was; be careful what you wish for here. Not that the OP's ideas are bad, they actually sound pretty damned good, but I'm a bit wary of it.

Meanwhile, holding two small swords in Skyrim should allow you to swing them both and chop something's head off, or in half. Jus' sayin'.

This. I really don't want all my fantasy RPGs to go the same route as all my shooters have gone. Pretty soon we can all just play 100% realistic, utterly boring video games. Maybe we should institute a rule where if you die once, the game ends permanently.

 

[Tharwen]

Except that you can stand still with the weapon over your head and enemies will still try to beat through it.

Not quite sure I understand.

You can hold block for a long time and enemies won't work out how to hit the unprotected area. At least, that's how I remember it.

 

[])rStrangelove]

Some games that have good sword fighting:

1. All AssCreeds
2. DarkMessiah of M&M
3. Die by the Sword (old classic)

 

[The Madman]

You can hold block for a long time and enemies won't work out how to hit the unprotected area. At least, that's how I remember it.

Mount & Blade has directional blocking. If they attack to the right and you block left, you'll just get hit. There is no all encompassing 'block' move. Even a tower shield will eventually break and can be batted aside by heavy weapon blows, charging horses, or even just a strong enough kick from the right angle.

Methinks you might have confused Mount & Blade with another game.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

It is a game and they are called Hack and Slash games for a reason if you don't like that style don't play them and play the ones you do. Also real life sword fights would be really fucking dull as they would be over with a flash of a blade. Either that or you would be trying to club them through the platemail.

There is also the option to use a real weapon like a Halberd or a Flanged Mace.

Also there are games already out that are suited to your tastes and I suggest you find them and play them.

 

[Wyes]

Actually, outside of ludicrously sharp katanas, swords were basically used as clubs with extra stabbing potential. The clean-slicing blade is pretty much romanticized.

But I still agree. Video games aren't realistic anyway, and melee combat has always sucked lots of balls.

It really depends what period you're looking at; early swords were pretty club-like, in that they were tip heavy and intended for cleaving through things. Later on (and I'm talking like middle ages) swords were used pretty much exclusively by rich nobles, and swords and sword fighting developed a lot. The clean-slice certainly is possible though, and can be achieved with the right technique.

I'm not convinced we will ever have a good sword-fighting simulator, and I think that's okay; real sword fighting wouldn't be much fun as a game. Sword fights tend to be over very quickly, with either somebody being struck in the first 10 seconds or so, but if they don't they drag out for a fair while (on the order of minutes, I mean, though anybody familiar with fighting will recognise that's a long long time). There's just way too much to consider; different guards, different styles, counter-attacks, ripostes, footwork, timing, distance. Sword fighting ain't simple.

 

[Tharwen]

You can hold block for a long time and enemies won't work out how to hit the unprotected area. At least, that's how I remember it.

Mount & Blade has directional blocking. If they attack to the right and you block left, you'll just get hit. There is no all encompassing 'block' move. Even a tower shield will eventually break and can be batted aside by heavy weapon blows, charging horses, or even just a strong enough kick from the right angle.

Methinks you might have confused Mount & Blade with another game.

I know, but when I played they didn't seem to attack the bits of me that weren't covered by the block.

I think this conversation isn't really going anywhere...

 

[Togs]

I actually like the idea alot, it would work brilliantly for slower paced games- Demon Soul's or Skyrim seems like the perfect fit, Im slightly geeking out just thinking about it.
For action games though no dice, the non realistic trappings are part and parcel of the affair, your system would ruin it.

Oh and it seems perfect for a tabletop RPG, kinda reminescent of the Fate systems stress tracks.

 

[veloper]

Try Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

That's a fantasy FPS hack and slash.

What he said.
This is the only game that ever got melee right in a first person perspective.
Play it.

 

[Redingold]

You can hold block for a long time and enemies won't work out how to hit the unprotected area. At least, that's how I remember it.

Mount & Blade has directional blocking. If they attack to the right and you block left, you'll just get hit. There is no all encompassing 'block' move. Even a tower shield will eventually break and can be batted aside by heavy weapon blows, charging horses, or even just a strong enough kick from the right angle.

Methinks you might have confused Mount & Blade with another game.

I know, but when I played they didn't seem to attack the bits of me that weren't covered by the block.

I think this conversation isn't really going anywhere...

Well, that seems like a problem with the behaviour of your enemies rather than a flaw in the combat system. Wailing repeatedly on a block should be a combat option (maybe not a sensible one, but it shouldn't be disallowed).

 

[Phisi]

Have you played some spectacle fighters, they have pretty good sword play... and incredibly stupid clothing. And someone beat me too it but Overgrowth has good unarmed combat so I would watch it if I were you to see if it becomes what you are looking for in sword play, but another thing you have to remember is that realism if often boring and to have good sword play that is exciting means you usually have to cut back on the realism of it. Otherwise it is one stab and you're dead or you slash and your sword misses and carries on into the ground which leaves you open to be stabbed again. You don't have the degree of control of both arms (unless motion controls are involved) to be able to bock and stab and lunge around unless those are binded to keys and the game sacrifices realism to be able to string them into combos. Kinda like what spectacle fighters do. You should join a medieval reenactment group, then you would have the control and limits on endurance and strength and wonderful animations when people block

 

[Batou667]

In general I agree but you have some amazing sword fighting mechanics in some best examples I can think of is Assassins Creed and Demon's/Dark Souls I'm sure there's more but I can't be bothered to think of em.

And here was me about to use Assassin's Creed as an example of BAD swordfighting. I've only played the first game, mind you, but the sword combat in that is just a slog-fest - you can take a dozen sword hits and still live, and the vast majority of time you're either standing around waiting for your enemy to attack, or fruitlessly bashing your sword against his. An infinitely more efficient way to kill a group of enemies in AssCreed is to climb a tall building, let the enemies follow you up, and then push them off the roof one by one to their death. Using a blade should be about swift, deadly finesse - in AssCreed, it's the least elegant combat solution in the game.

 

[Batou667]

Check out the Mount&Blade series(specifically Warband), it uses a melee system fairly close to what you describe.

it's extremely hard to master, the Multiplayer scene has the biggest difficulty ramp-up i've seen in any game. ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG0YM35goSE

I was going to sugesst this. Mount and Blade's combat system is pretty close to the real thing.

-youtube vid-

Motion sickness ahoy, Cap'n! Sorry, but you won't catch me playing this. The combat system seems only slightly less unfit-for-purpose than the melee weapons in Gears of War.

 

[Project_Xii]

Dark Souls.

THAT is some fun sword fighting. Nothing like getting into a fight with a Dark Knight when you're still low level and spending half an hour circling each other, taking pot swings, blocking at just the right seconds, thrusting when an opening presents itself. Never a moment is dull in Dark Souls if you're good at the game. I imagine you'll get bored if you continual suck and die though.

 

[Pearwood]

And yes, the pun in the title is intentional.

In that case your sharp mind and rapier wit put you a cut above the rest.

Not sure about those ideas though, it'd be a good system for a story based RPG that doesn't have too many fight scenes I guess. It's blocking that needs work really, most systems are designed so you can block a full strength attack from a mace or some other blunt weapon and somehow not break your arm.

I'd add that blunt weapons should be more effective against armour and sharp weapons more effective against bare skin if we were going for total realism. I don't think missing a lunge should have an impact on your stats though, the danger is after you lunge you're completely wide open to attack until you recover. An option to recover forwards or backwards would be nice too, so you can either lunge again or get back.

Nothing like getting into a fight with a Dark Knight when you're still low level and spending half an hour circling each other, taking pot swings, blocking at just the right seconds, thrusting when an opening presents itself.

I found that really bloody boring actually, ended up cheesing and circling him to get the loot he was guarding. Went back when I could get the fight over with in a minute or two.

 

[NLS]

Jedi Outcast (and Jedi Academy) had some pretty good third person sword fighting. You had 3 different fighting styles (plus dual/staff sabers in Academy), and your lightsaber literally followed your mouse around on the screen.
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic was also quite good when it comes to first person sword fighting, I wish they could have implemented that into The Elder Scrolls.

 

[ACman]

Two words: Bushido Blade.

Best most realistic sword duel game I've played. Then there is Soul Calibur which throws realism out the window and replaces it with sweet, ridiculous-combo goodness. Problem is most games are not reduced to a duel and when you aren't in a duel I'm sure most sword fighting is pretty boring and workmanlike.

But if you have some way of getting hold of it Bushido Blade for the original Playstation is magic.

 

[SckizoBoy]

snip

I've always considered a completely different combat system for 'realism' purposes and it goes thus: (note, applicable only for boss-fights where it's one on one, multiple enemies, just do the standard of block/hack/kill etc. 'cos it works, gameplay's fine most of the time and this system would be far too time consuming against multiple enemies, though inserted as an option to enter, might be viable)

1. Defence points (i.e. the more skilled your character is with a particular weapon, or even unarmed, the more defence points he/she gets, while striking comes from the base weapon stats and the character's strength/agility/dexterity etc.)

2. Enter combat mode - time slows and a new interface kicks in whereupon you have absolute control of all individual movement of extremities (R1/L1 = hands, R2/L2 = feet) and basic movement behaviours (X = block, tri = jump, sq = attack, circ = special ability etc.).

3. You can then attack, block, move (analogue sticks as usual) but have the time to react to every movement made by whoever you're fighting and with pinpoint timing. Every time you're about to get hit and because it's slo-mo you can't react quickly enough, you lose defence points and an auto-animation gives you the block/parry you need, unpause to continue the fight in new stance. Repeat until someone's lost all defence points, first hit effectively kills.

4. Resume normal speed - fight plays back at full speed.