Teaching kids about homosexuality

[blankedboy]

Well, unless New Zealand legalises gay adoption I doubt I'll ever have a child, but in that case it'd just be obvious from day one.

No, I do not. I don't think homosexuality should be encouraged, unless it actually comes from the child itself, with as little as external influence as possible.

...or the kid might catch the gay?

You would be amazed how many people think they have a sexuality they indeed have not (at least that's what I firmly believe). I feel sorry for people under 18 who claim to be homosexual, as it's more often than not insecurity.

And I feel sorry for you. I'm so so sorry.

Agreed. 18 is an age, not a maturity meter.

EDIT: Ilol'd at the quadpost just up there xD

 

[101flyboy]

Alright, I've been one of those famous net-lurkers around these forums for a long time. But, I've never registered or posted until now, and it's because of this thread. Mainly for two reasons: one, the back-and-forth here is actually intelligent and respectful (and that's rare on the internet) and two, because I like hot-button topics to weigh in on (pardon my prepositional ending). Now, preamble out of the way for my first post at EM, on to the OP...

To me, it's amazing how fast the actual issue underscoring a question can get misconstrued. That is, this really isn't a simple question of "should the child be told that some boys and girls like other boys or girls?" The simple solution to that would be to ASK the child, "well do you think you like boys or girls?" In a simple, lighthearted way. But wait, what are most kids that age going to say, "I like boys and girls!" and have no idea what you just set them up to admit to. Point is, kids are smart, but they think simply (we should all be so blessed). Sexuality will barely register in terms of it's umbrella-like nature and the considerations therein. This is why homosexuality is such a powder keg in terms of what is "taught." You simply cannot teach sexual orientation.

So, why the issue here? It's because this is a discussion about familial political correctness, not lifestyle. I speak for what I have observed in the U.S., as I am not a globetrotter, by the way. That said, we have by and large become a society (I don't say "nation," because our nation is and will always be great) of people that are obsessed with catering to people's feelings and expectations. If we don't teach our kids to be sensitive to everyone else at the expense of self, we are wrong. We are horrible parents. We are not keeping up with modern societal evolution. Now, before this becomes a rant in the wrong direction, we'll get it back to the point. If it is expected that being gay is acceptable, it should be equally as acceptable for someone to NOT find it acceptable. Does that mean someone who doesn't approve of gayness should be militant, abusive, or condescending? Absolutely not. But it DOES mean that if they want to teach their child(ren) their opinions on the homosexual persuasion, they are entitled to do so. That is what parents do. End of story. They shape children according to their values and beliefs until that child can make decisions for him/herself. NO child is capable of making long term, life-appropriate (and I use "appropriate" with great hesitance) decisions at the age of 7, 10, 14 or even 18 in some cases.

The key issue here is not should it be brought up by the parents. Several posters have said that if the child brings it up then discuss it. I agree with this. But, if you are going to discuss it, decide from which point of view you are coming from. Biological? Religious? It doesn't matter as long as there IS a standpoint.

Sadly, the most pointed area of contention within a discussion like this would be trying to eliminate bias if you don't want it in this discussion. For example - a deeply (Christian) religious family might have the discussion (or not, for the reason of purposeful omission) and point out that being gay or "liking boys/girls" (as the situation dictates) is wrong. Fine. If that is their home and their child - their business. (As an aside, there is a world of difference between not condoning homosexuality and homophobia.) There could easily be a similar family that has the Family Stone approach of homosexuality is just a tendency, such as handedness (to quote the movie) and there is nothing wrong with it. Also their business.

My advice, as a heterosexual male, married, uncle, brother, whatever - is to say to your sister-in-law (speaking to the OP, here)figure out HOW you are going to discuss it if/and when you do. The WORST thing that can happen is that you discuss the concepts of sexual orientation to a child, saying homosexuality is okay if it is based in love, and then alienating them because it isn't what you believe. That is the absolute bottom line. Teach them what you want, but be clear about how YOU feel. Don't pretty it up, don't lie through your teeth for the sake of having a "politically correct" conversation in your own home.

/deep breath.

-R.

I disagree with about 90% of what you said, a lot because your tone is "being gay is wrong but if you want to do ________ , fine." And that you think this discussion is about political correctness, which is not even remotely the case. Also, asking kids isn't a solution. Like you said, it isn't anything they understand. Talk to them about it, and go over things with them. Just asking gets you nowhere.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Have a homosexual explain it to them, they will do a much better job that you ever could

I just had an image of the parents bringing in a flaming guy XD "now billy, this man is a ho-mo-sexual. Can you say ho-mo-sexual?" XD sorry that's totally irrelevant.

No. Mostly because its already enough of a thing to have to teach about sex and not have to go into various other types of sex. That's unloading quiet a bit on a young child at once. One thing at a time.

how is it unloading too much to say some men like women some men like men and some men like both? The birds and the bees talk (what I understand this to have started from) is about love, why would it be so hard to add an aside that lists the 2 other homosexuality?

The way I hear it the "birds and the bees" is the physical act of sex. Telling kids about love is different and you can do that at any time and should say that love is a many varied and splendored thing and blah blah blah but when describing sex for the first time I don't think that parents need to describe every single possible way of having sex. If we're just talking about love as an emotion then that's different.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Nah. Give them one thing at a time. Start off with straight then when they are a bit older teach them about homosexuality and what else there can be. In the end its still taught, just at a different time.

 

[101flyboy]

Talking as a male who has gone through the whole sexual identity self diagnostic dilemma I can speak from my own experience on this subject.
Sex had ALWAYS been taught being closely linked with procreation so the idea of doing it scared the living shit out of me, but I still had the hormones kicking off and couldn't ignore them. With my libido arriving before my ability to notice girls I took the only option I had available, I fooled around with a male classmate (after school obviously). If I had been taught about homosexuality before this I would have gone through life thinking I was gay, when in fact all I was doing was reacting to hormones and curiosity.
I think what I am trying to say is that, in my opinion, sex and orientation are not linked at the hip: sex is how you become intimate with another person, orientation is societies way of categorising who you choose to do it with.

"I don't give a fuck who you choose to fuck, as long as you give a fuck for whoever you chose." would be my lesson to my (hypothetical) kid.

You make some decent points, but if you're being taught correctly, the confusion aspect wouldn't come into play. But, because you were taught solely that sex was for procreation, it led you to being with another boy. That's actually why sex in GENERAL needs to be discussed, and obviously that some men like men, some women like women, you will grow up realizing, oh, I don't like men, I like women. Instead you were confused, which could have been avoided.

 

[Megacherv]

No, I do not. I don't think homosexuality should be encouraged, unless it actually comes from the child itself, with as little as external influence as possible.

The same goes for the opposite- The kid will learn soon enough, and probably ask her parents about it- then they should tell her, naturally, as unbiased as they can. If she later finds out she is indeed actually queer, it would be better if she does not have any subconscious issues with it inherited from her parents.

But still, they should not be handled equally, as heterosexuality is still the norm- and the natural way to reproduce. If the children are gay, they will probably find it out themselves. The important thing is to then make sure they are neither ashamed or feel otherwise repressed.

The thing is that it's not encouraging homosexuality, it's encouraging the acceptance of homosexuality. Kids shouldn't be taught that it's the best thing ever and that you should all be having massive bisexual orgies; just that it's not a bane of our existance as a species, and that if you accept their differences then we'd be better off for it.

 

[imperialreign]

But there's a difference between learning about sex and teach kids about sexual orientations. Homosexuality is something for when they're a bit older methinks.

Why?

Do you actually believe that people only discover that they are gay or bisexual at an older and "more appropriate" age?

Imagine how it must feel for the early bloomer who have only ben taught about heterosexuality, but feels an attraction towards someone of the same sex. Is it really worth putting them through those years of self-doubt because one thinks that homosexuality is something you should only learn about "when you're a bit older"? :S

Agreed in this. Especially considering that at the pre-pubescent years (and even younger) are when kids are developing their individuality and sexual orientation. It's completely natural for anyone to be "curious" at some point in time during these years, and considering the levels of horomones and what-not-else it can prove confusing if there's never been any type of serious talk from an adult concerning the topic. It can leave them feeling more confused than they should be because the mainstream says it's unacceptable, and their parents haven't discussed it with them - leaving them to have to decide . . . and if the child does indeed turn out to be homosexual, the amount of peer pressure can lead them into depression or worse as they try to sort out their own confused feelings without any guidance.

I'm sorry, but simply whether discussing a topic with your child is going to cause problems with other parents or teachers SHOULD NOT be a factor in whether or not you actually have that discussion with your child. You're in effect letting other people's opinions dictate how your child should be, act and think about said topics, because you're not willing to discuss otherwise.

 

[Triscut900]

no
theyll learn about it some other way
hell im 14 and i think i might be bi

Which is NOT good. Kids should learn about it from their parents or someone they can trust will give them appropriate advice. I mean, you need to maybe talk to a youth LGBT councilor on the computer, and discuss your feelings. Or join a teen LGBT group. Because just going through your early years not understand who and what you are, will end up negatively in the long run.

This is speaking from a kids prspective here
parents will naturally try to raise their child straight because they want their son/daughter to be normal and to not get made fun of
it is the kids choice when the parents interviene as little as possible and that the child can find out about it and judje homosexuals the way they choose
(i do have a way i can express my feelings its called furry fandom)

 

[Harmondale2]

Yes they should be told, its just as much part of it as anything else

 

[Olrod]

Would teaching them about heterosexuality encourage them to go out and become teenage parents?

No?

Then what do you imagine will be so bad about teaching them about homosexuality?

 

[SpaceSpork]

I remember, when I was a little boy, my friends used the term "gay" in a derogatory sense before they knew what it meant. Perhaps their parents could have taught them about it, before they get imprinted on by a homophobe.

 

[101flyboy]

Not everyone is born gay, while people most certainly don't CHOOSE to be gay, that doesn't mean it can't develop because of external stimuli.

BULLSHIT.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/06/30/genetics-and-environment-shape-sexual-orientation/2522.html

How does that contradict? If environmental factors help shape it then clearly not everyone is born gay. If all gay people were born gay then environmental factors could not contribute since it would already be determined. So 'Not everyone is born gay' fits. 'while people most certainly don't CHOOSE to be gay' is not contradicted by presenting factors that aren't a choice. And environment is an external stimuli so not sure how 'that doesn't mean it can't develop because of external stimuli' is wrong. Every piece of it seems fine.

Individual-specific environmental factors means environmental factors that are PERSONAL, and NOT INFLUENCED BY OTHERS. That would include things such as biological processes in the womb. That would not include societal attitudes, family, parenting, or friends. It doesn't include "hey, I'm your dad, let me teach you to be gay." No person can make a gay person gay, it's a PERSONAL thing.

Try again now, please.

 

[Jimbo1212]

Teaching kids about homosexuality?
Should it not be " Warning kids about homosexuality"?

Anyway, I think there is no point teaching a kid about homosexuality because they will find out in their own time, especially if she is only 7.

 

[101flyboy]

No, I do not. I don't think homosexuality should be encouraged, unless it actually comes from the child itself, with as little as external influence as possible.

The same goes for the opposite- The kid will learn soon enough, and probably ask her parents about it- then they should tell her, naturally, as unbiased as they can. If she later finds out she is indeed actually queer, it would be better if she does not have any subconscious issues with it inherited from her parents.

But still, they should not be handled equally, as heterosexuality is still the norm- and the natural way to reproduce. If the children are gay, they will probably find it out themselves. The important thing is to then make sure they are neither ashamed or feel otherwise repressed.

This.

Being gay isn't evil, but there still is little point is teaching stuff about gays besides that they aren't horrible people trying to destroy morality.

The point is that homosexuality exists, homosexuals exists, and most kids have homosexual thoughts, and almost all kids will encounter homosexual situations in their young lives. That's the point.

Also, I don't understand why it needs to be qualified that being gay isn't evil. That shouldn't have to be stated. That's common sense.

 

[C95J]

You should teach about homosexuality at the same time as hetrosexuality, because there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[101flyboy]

Should it not be " Warning kids about homosexuality"?

Didn't read the rest.

 

[101flyboy]

My pregnant sister has a 7 year old step-daughter who's in the process of learning about the birds and the bees. I was a little rattled to learn that my sister is only teaching her about hetrosexual relations, saying that it would be 'inappropriate' to tell her about homosexuality at such an early age as the step-daughter might discuss it at school and awkward phone calls from the teachers might follow. Since my sister is in a hetrosexual marriage she argued that it's what her step-daughter encounters on a daily basis, and thus is what she should be taught as the 'norm'.

Do you escapists think that children should be told about homosexuality and homosexual relationships at the same time as they're learning about straight relationships?

Absolutely not.

If an adult wants to make the decision that that lifestyle is for them, thats their business. But I completely disagree with teaching a child about it. As a parent, I find it outrageous that anyone would try to do so, to be honest.

That lifestyle is a sexual orientation and an attraction that most people in their lives feel at one time or another. And, I find it outrageous you think it's outrageous to teach kids about reality.

You may as well just say "I disagree with homosexuality and don't want kids to think it's an acceptable option." Since it's clear that is what you're saying.

 

[101flyboy]

Love can also occur between a man and an animal, or a woman and an animal, or a man, a woman, an alien and an animal. It's also possible that you have a desire to express your love using cream, other food, whips, poo, tinfoil, handcuffs, rapelay, domination etc. You are free to express your love in any way possible........

Yeah this sounds beautiful...

We teach kids in our society about social norms, we dont tell them about every freakin possibility there is with everything.

Comparing fictional love scenarios between aliens and humans with homosexual relationships just goes to show how badly in touch with the current reality you are.

Homosexuality BELONG to social norms in pretty much the entire western world and if a parent expect their kid to go through life never noticing that it exists or even meet a gay person then that parent lives in a fantasyworld disconnected from the real one. In the same way yours is when you try to portay it as something so uncommon as a person in love with an alien...

Well apparently it doesn't belong to our social norms yet, otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion now would we?

The reason we are having this discussion is because it's normal. And, obviously, you have a problem with that.

 

[101flyboy]

They're kids, let them be kids for a while.

The whole kids will be kids attitude are the main driving force behind things like teen pregnancy, bullying and hazing. That's irresponsible. If you raise ignorant kids, they will act out ignorantly.

 

[101flyboy]

I thought sex education was just about reproduction, not relationships. So technically you can only talk about heterosexuals. And I think they should discover their sexualities themselves. If you tell them all the options at the beginning it'll be too confusing. They'll think people are just reproducing wrong, and they may possibly choose a sexuality before they even find out what theirs is.

Sex education is about sex education. Not reproduction education. Sex education includes reproduction, and it includes heterosexuality, homosexuality and sexual orientation. So technically, you can't discuss sex education, without touching on the other realities of life. Now, with 7 year olds, there is some things better left unsaid, but then again, hiding things is not the correct option either. There is nothing confusing about some men like men, some men like women, vise versa. That is simple as. If a kid is confused, that's because they haven't been educated properly. And by a kid is 13 and start recognizing what they like, if you teach them beforehand about "some people are ______ and some are _______" they'll understand what these feelings actually mean, instead of maybe being freaked out by them.