TF2: New Scout weapons
- Thread starter DeusFps
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Most of those thoughts are irrelevant. Either that or he asked "do you think a thread about whether the new scout gear sucks would be a good idea". Anything not about whether the scout's new weapons are good or bad is irrelevant and has no place in this convo.
Being as I'm now having to respond to two people, this is going to be a looong ass post.
here we go...
7)Yes, it's based on tactics. Yes, good mouse control helps. I disagree with "strategies and tactics have to be learned" though. You can leap into TF2 having played very few games in the past, and still have fun. You LEARN strategies, but they are not crucial to the average player. To those players who (in my opinion) take it too seriously, yes, strategy is crucial. This is where the updated come in, as they mean you can customise the character to the way that YOU play and the strategy that YOU use. Finally, the highscore thing.. It pushes you, but how many "serious" players honestly care about how long they were alive for? It encourages the newer players to stick with it, it doesn't matter that you just got your face blown off, because in the last round you did the most damage you've ever done. Gratz! You're getting better.
8)The original question was "Just unlocked all the achievements. I must say valve really have no idea how the scout is meant to be played". My statement of "don't use them" is simple. If you prefer the way that the scout played before the update, no-one is forcing you to play any differently.
9) The axe was a buff AND a nerf. You seem to forget that the axetinguisher does LESS damage than the fire axe, meaning that you no longer have a melee weapon to fall back on. Admitted, it IS the pyro's main weapon now, but both the Heavy and the Soldier are actually designed to be weak to the Pyro. The heavy needs a couple of seconds to wind the minigun, the couple of seconds that the pyro needs to ignite run. Likewise, by the time a soldier sees the pyro, if they fire they'll end up with missile splash damage (being as how Pyro's are meant to be an ambush and close quarters class). If you're facing off against a heavy or a soldier, maybe you aren't as strategical as you think you are? Lastly "that isn't what TF2 is about". Bollocks. If the player wants to play an aggressive heavy, he'll take Sasha, whilst if they are playing a defending role, they are more likely to go with Natasha.
Your turn
here we go...
You've walked up to someone, said "Hey, you're a stupid shite. You suck at *whatever*" and he hits you, it's because you've started it. If you then hit back, you can't expect them to sit down and shut up.mike1921 said:
My point? My point is that if this is an argument, don't try to disguise it as a discussion. If this is an argument, then there is bugger all point in posting, as arguments are usually the result of someone grabbing hold of one set of views and lashing out at anyone who disagrees.
If a game that can be played casually is not a casual game, then what is? The whole point of a "casual game" is you can dip in and out, and not have to particularly *practice* in order to have fun with it.
You did. I said that the Scout gear is useful to different players, and just because Deus doesn't find them useful doesn't mean they they AREN'T useful
and who said I was refering to myself only with the rebuttals? In case you missed them, there are (at time of posting) 99 OTHER posts in this thread.
who said you have to reply to every comment? You state your opinion and then see what other people think. If needed, you clarify a point here or there, but you don't need to reply to every post.DeusFps said:
5)So you thought before the release went live that you wouldn't enjoy the update, but still played through? I'm confused here... The advantage it brings isn't "pure luck", it's about how you play the class.DeusFps said:
7)Yes, it's based on tactics. Yes, good mouse control helps. I disagree with "strategies and tactics have to be learned" though. You can leap into TF2 having played very few games in the past, and still have fun. You LEARN strategies, but they are not crucial to the average player. To those players who (in my opinion) take it too seriously, yes, strategy is crucial. This is where the updated come in, as they mean you can customise the character to the way that YOU play and the strategy that YOU use. Finally, the highscore thing.. It pushes you, but how many "serious" players honestly care about how long they were alive for? It encourages the newer players to stick with it, it doesn't matter that you just got your face blown off, because in the last round you did the most damage you've ever done. Gratz! You're getting better.
8)The original question was "Just unlocked all the achievements. I must say valve really have no idea how the scout is meant to be played". My statement of "don't use them" is simple. If you prefer the way that the scout played before the update, no-one is forcing you to play any differently.
9) The axe was a buff AND a nerf. You seem to forget that the axetinguisher does LESS damage than the fire axe, meaning that you no longer have a melee weapon to fall back on. Admitted, it IS the pyro's main weapon now, but both the Heavy and the Soldier are actually designed to be weak to the Pyro. The heavy needs a couple of seconds to wind the minigun, the couple of seconds that the pyro needs to ignite run. Likewise, by the time a soldier sees the pyro, if they fire they'll end up with missile splash damage (being as how Pyro's are meant to be an ambush and close quarters class). If you're facing off against a heavy or a soldier, maybe you aren't as strategical as you think you are? Lastly "that isn't what TF2 is about". Bollocks. If the player wants to play an aggressive heavy, he'll take Sasha, whilst if they are playing a defending role, they are more likely to go with Natasha.
Your turn
I've made no attempt to reject anyones views. If it seems i am in my terrible writing then i apologize. Again, check the first page. I was the first to receive personal comments. You act as if I've called everyone in this thread a noob. I haven't directly called anyone a noob. Little to no examples... Ive been giving examples relating to the topic in most of my posts if I'm not mistaken. I'm sorry if this thread doesn't meet the escapist requirements of asking unanswerable questions. I've been replying to people's views and giving my own opinion in return.Tenmar said:
wait...what...
If a personal attack is turned into a physical attack in this metaphor, what was the "you're a stupid shite, you suck" in this arguement? Also, you never expect someone to sit down and shut up after you hit them. Regardless of who started it.
That's not a discussion, that's an "I disagree!". I meant something explaining why they are useful.
a game I would describe as casual can't also be played as a hardcore game. I count TF2 in an "all of the above" category.
5) If it costs me nothing to try, then why not? For all i know it could of turned out to be epic. The pure luck i was referring to was some of the achievements. You know like the "Unlocked when X is here, y is doing this and z is orange" achievements.wordsmith said:
7) By pick up and play i assume you mean how much of a time commitment you must have before you can play the game reasonably well? If I'm wrong please correct me. Tactics and strategy pretty much are needed for this in tf2. I know these have to be learned. That was my point.
8)I also said discuss. Not somebody give me a solution.
9)Yes but i did say nobody used the axe for the damage before the update. You can't really nerf something that isn't used. Pre update the soldier and heavy were not designed to be weak to the pyro. If the heavy hasn't got his gun spinning, then it means he's running from the spawn. Meaning he's in no position to be a threat to your team yet. So is pretty much a pointless target. The heavy is best used at close range due to the high spread and low damage of each bullet. Same for soldier. His main weakness is the fact his projectiles have a slow moving speed. This doesn't matter at close range which means he takes full advantage of the blast radius given to him meaning two shots near the ground near him and the pyro is down. Those where the two classes that would beat the pyro at close range. Anything else died. But the pyro could take these classes down provided the pyro used tactics and the enemy didn't really know what he was doing. Now the axe removes the the need for the tactics part and nulls the need for the enemy to have no idea what he's doing. I'm pretty sure the whole point of class based combat is each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each relying on the other to null the weaknesses and buff the strengths. If you give the player the option to change the strengths and weaknesses it pretty much makes the whole class based gameplay pointless :/
Sorry it took so long. I got lost in the massive quote
my biggest problem is the achievements to get the weapons. Some of them require one of the new weapons to get and some are practically impossible to get through natural gameplay. How in the hell are you supposed to get someone to stand still long enough to hit them with the new bat?
mike1921 said:
Hey dude, you're the one who shifted the metaphor, don't complain to me if it doesn't work.
Ok-
The sandman- Useful from close range against heavies, as well as stopping an uber charge. It gives the sniper those extra couple of seconds to headshot the brilliant heavy who's rolling through the team, as well as giving the enemy sniper a reason to stay out of the window during a push. You lose the double jump, but if you're using the scout as a portable base defence, it gives the defence classes another 5 seconds to neutralise a threat (Who's most likely to attack a base? A scout. Who's the only one who can keep up with a scout? Another scout). Also, a scout's main problem is the Heavy with a wound minigun. No amount of doublejumping will protect you from a spray and pray.
Bonk!- Useful for that extra boost of speed past the heavy standing between you holding the intel and the outside world. Yes, you spend a second or two drinking it, but if you need to get past a gun barrel, it's a second that's gonna be worth it. If you're playing as a runner instead of a damage class, of course this is going to be a bonus. The already fast and tricky scout coupled with a speed boost means that a good scout can get back to safety without being shot to pieces.
FAN- A heavy/medic combo headed your way? Not to worry, just blast one/both out of your way, leaving a teammate to clear up after they hit the deck. Slower reload, yes, however it does give 2 instant shots (not to mention a longer range than the scatter gun) and if you're getting into a firefight with a scout, you're probably in the wrong place.
a game I would describe as casual can't also be played as a hardcore game. I count TF2 in an "all of the above" category.[/quote] In that case there is no such thing as a "casual" game. I used to compete with my sister to see who could get the best Tetris score on the old Windows 98 machine we had as kids. Please, list a few games that you'd define as "casual" and I'll apply your terminology to them.
Energy drink barely even takes a second to engage, you just have to time it right.DeusFps said:No. Now i jsut know how many of you are noobsSimriel said:
Evidently you're one of the guys who has good aim and that's about it.
Ok. Care to back that up with a strategy? Or are you just going to insult me?CaptainEgypt said:Energy drink barely even takes a second to engage, you just have to time it right.DeusFps said:No. Now i jsut know how many of you are noobsSimriel said:
Evidently you're one of the guys who has good aim and that's about it.
The strategy is to time the energy drink well. What do you want me to say? If you screw it up, you'll die. If you don't, good.
