"That's Not a Real Job"

[hooblabla6262]

Being an artist is the same as being an entrepreneur. It is most certainly a real job, though not always a very stable or profitable one.

But what about the hookers and drug dealers of the world? They provide some very interesting services while taking on large risks, and yet we constantly tell them to get real jobs... poor criminals.

All that being said, I have both a real job and a "fake job", so I'm set.

 

[thejackyl]

I get told by customers where I work that I need to get a "real job", one was a convicted felon, and the other was a known drug dealer.

Oh, and then there's that thievery ring we have in town, that every time they get caught (which is a LOT), they tend to scream that.

Anyways, as long as what your doing is legal, and you can pay your bills with it, I think it counts as a real job.

 

[The_Echo]

Basically, I think the general consensus among those who might use the phrase "real job" is that anything you get paid for that doesn't make you miserable is not a real job.

Even if you actually do a lot of work (animation, for instance), it's not a real job if you like it.

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Whatever honest work earns you your daily bread is absolutely a "real" job and I won't hear otherwise.

I used to get this from some of the developers I worked with. "You're just doing the automated testing. Get to work on the "real work" you were assigned."

Conveniently forgetting that their sloppy ass code was the whole reason I had to run bi-weekly automated tests.

what is an automated test versus what they say is your "actual" purpose?

Sorry for the delay. My current "real job" completely wiped me out yesterday.

The company I worked for had developed a series of online tools for small businesses. Most of what I was in charge of testing was an online contact manager similar in nature to Constant Contact.

The Automated tests were designed to make sure all of the basic functionality of the site was still working. All I really had to do was load up the test suite and press play and it would automatically play back through the various commands I had previously entered.

For example a simple test would be a series of commands telling the system to go to wwww.facebook.com, click on the username field, enter the text "[email protected]", click on the password field, enter the text "password" and then click the login button. Assuming everything was still working perfectly that would result in a successful test of the log in feature.

The problem is that any number of things can cause an automated test to come back with a false negative so the process needs to be baby sat to some degree.

My "Real work" was manually testing the new features that were ready to go live to make sure they actually performed the tasks they were meant to, and when possible, to write up an automated test to add to the already existing list.

Most of the ill will aimed in my direction was from an unfortunate view from the developers that the existence of a software tester implied that they didn't know how to do their jobs.

 

[Vegosiux]

I'm not saying that all beggars are con-artists; I'm talking about those that make a living out of it by choice, and profit from the kindness of others by pretending to be too unwell to be under employment.

I think I know what you mean, I think you mean those who try to invoke your pity more than would be warranted considering their situation.

I don't consider that an actual scam, because there's no promise of a benefit to myself (past the promise of maybe sharing some of that wine). Guess we're just of differing opinions here...

 

[Charli]

Animation often requires me to work through the day and well into the night/early hours, and then get up mere hours later to start the grueling process again. Deadlines are cruel.

Yet to my grandparents I'm not 'really working'.
I may as well be doodling with crayons for all they think on it.

Just ignore it, usually it's coming from people who have not found a passion for something and have simply accepted a life of mediocrity and grind. But because it's making them miserable they're doing 'REAL work'. If you are making a living, and you are truly invested in it, then you're doing work.

Hell even if you're not quite making a living from it, it's still work. Everything that you pour yourself into in the hopes of getting somewhere in life is your work.

 

[Navvan]

Job Flow Chart

Can I make money from other people by doing the activity without forcefully taking it?
Yes_____________________________________No
It is a job_______________________It isn't a job

Not that difficult.

Now it isn't a very good job if it isn't reliable income, and it isn't a very noble job if it doesn't add anything to society. The general category of "Art" can fall into or out of either domain pending on the artist.

 

[Aramis Night]

snip
I'm not in debt to anyone for anything(something credit agencies seem to despise. Whenever they run a background check on my credit it comes out with a bad credit score because its blank). I live within my means and have been given no handouts, or benefits of any kind.
snip

I am bugging my congressmen and representatives, to pass legislation to automatically give good credit points to people every year they do not have debt. Trying to get others to join me.

I am thinking about getting more involved in politics just to bug people to fix problems like this. It is good too see other fiscal conservatives out there (Note: I said FISCAL, just nipping the dozen people hating on me for saying the "C" word)

I would love it if my lack of debt would reflect well on my credit score. But i don't think that passing laws is the answer. It just shows that credit scores are less of an indication of risk and more an indication of potential profit for lending agencies. If you do not have debt and are driven to stay debt free, than any lenders you deal with don't stand to make much money on interest dealing with you and have no incentive to do so.

One solution i would like to see is credit scores being information beyond the reach of any businesses that are not lenders and only with your permission to obtain a loan or credit. Living within your means could in some fields actually cost you promotions because some employers do credit checks.

Oh and don't worry. I'm not offended by the notion of being related to fiscal conservatism. My positions are varied, but i'll admit that fiscal conservatives have a lot of good points. I'll take that as a compliment

The "bad credit rating" is more to do with the fact you can't consistently prove that you can pay back within your means, rather than profit making. Some people who massively borrow can have a great credit rating, as can people who borrow very little - the rating isn't dependent on size of debt, or potential profit, but the risk of you taking out a first time loan and never being able to pay it back because you're not used to it (or you already have allocated your monthly renumeration, like salary).

A really simple way to boost your credit rating would be to get a minimal charge credit card and spend maybe £10 or so a month on it, paying the debt off immediately so it doesn't accrue any interest. As credit rating systems are mostly automated, this will begin to eventually give you a great rating as a reliable lender. It's easier said than done though, and don't use the credit card for anything more than this - those things are also the easiest way to get a bad credit rating through abuse of the card. It's far too tempting when you are stuck for money or in an awkward situation to use them beyond what you can safely pay back

You're actually making my point. People who can't live within their means constantly have to borrow money or live on credit. The fact that people who massively borrow can have great credit scores illustrates just how profit based the credit score system is. If they were actually good at allocating their funds properly, they would not need to borrow money. You can slip further and further into debt and your level of inability to live within your means and to pay back your debts will be masked by being offered increased credit limits or transferring debt to different lenders/cards without ever actually having to pay off the balance of previous debts.

The fact that your solution is simply another method of manipulating the system shows just how broken the credit rating system is. Aside from obtaining a credit score, what possible reason can one have to keep a debt balance of $10 when they don't need to be in debt? As it is, the credit rating system lumps together the most financially responsible with those who are the least financially responsible.

For myself, being without debt is a matter of honour. I know its a concept unfamiliar to most. Carrying debt should not be normal, as it is for most people now. Holding onto debt is irresponsible.

 

[Aramis Night]

my personal concept of a 'real job' is one that involves a regular paycheck and or reliable income
on which you can base raising a family, run a home, a car and or whatever entertainment you like.

if you manage that in some manner then your job is a real job.

the exact route is irrelevant.

Wow, your standards for a real job is incredibly high. There is almost no way to guarantee a regular paycheck long enough to raise a family. Even if you are incredibly fortunate enough to make enough to support a family paycheck to paycheck(which would have to be a huge amount of money). Seeing as how virtually no one has job security anymore how can you know if your job is a real job until after you have had it for 2 decades.

 

[The Lugz]

my personal concept of a 'real job' is one that involves a regular paycheck and or reliable income
on which you can base raising a family, run a home, a car and or whatever entertainment you like.

if you manage that in some manner then your job is a real job.

the exact route is irrelevant.

Wow, your standards for a real job is incredibly high. There is almost no way to guarantee a regular paycheck long enough to raise a family. Even if you are incredibly fortunate enough to make enough to support a family paycheck to paycheck(which would have to be a huge amount of money). Seeing as how virtually no one has job security anymore how can you know if your job is a real job until after you have had it for 2 decades.

HA!

I'm not talking about absolute job security! that would be ridiculous, that comes under
'whatever means necessary' switching jobs is a means to feed mouths.

I just mean any job that has a reliable source of money, so you can prevision accordingly
in the short term.
in my not so humble opinion, people generating income from youtube adverts,
for example is not a 'real job' because one small glitch could wipe out a month's
earnings, or the plug might be pulled by google, advertising companies or clicks may drop
off for no apparent reason ect ect.

A reliable 'real' job could include supermarket manager, owning a small firm or company
a skilled worker in a technology company, consultant, or any numerous laborers
a laborer laminating and painting car components is a skilled laborer and has a decent wage,
a backend developer for a website, hired staff of many kinds ect.
these are examples, not a comprehensive list.


basically anything that guarantees a wage packet ( preferably a good one ) of some kind
regularly, is a 'real job'

 

[triggrhappy94]

Do you get paid?
Do you "work" at least one hour a week?
You're employed.

I think the real question should be: "You get paid for that!?"
Makes you sound less ignorant.

As per "physical labour," I don't think there's been many of those kinds of jobs since the last industrial revolution.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Do you get paid?
Do you "work" at least one hour a week?
You're employed.

I think the real question should be: "You get paid for that!?"
Makes you sound less ignorant.

As per "physical labour," I don't think there's been many of those kinds of jobs since the last industrial revolution.

I'm with this guy.
Granted, I don't have a job so my opinion probably doesn't mean much but as far as I'm concerned, if you see money coming out of it on a regular basis, it's a job.

 

[Sansha]

If it makes money, it's a job.

I'm in property development and moonlighting as an actor. People say neither are real jobs because I don't 'do anything'. I could fit a third part-time job in, but I don't need to - I made $720k last year.

I used to work at McDonald's, and before that as a builder's laborer. I've literally dug ditches and hauled rocks for my living. You can't disrespect anyone for their profession, as long as they work hard, support themselves and their families, and if they're happy doing it, so much the better. That's called winning at life.

Haters are going to hate. You have to do whatever makes you happy, and not let anyone tell you any different.

 

[Verlander]

snip
I'm not in debt to anyone for anything(something credit agencies seem to despise. Whenever they run a background check on my credit it comes out with a bad credit score because its blank). I live within my means and have been given no handouts, or benefits of any kind.
snip

I am bugging my congressmen and representatives, to pass legislation to automatically give good credit points to people every year they do not have debt. Trying to get others to join me.

I am thinking about getting more involved in politics just to bug people to fix problems like this. It is good too see other fiscal conservatives out there (Note: I said FISCAL, just nipping the dozen people hating on me for saying the "C" word)

I would love it if my lack of debt would reflect well on my credit score. But i don't think that passing laws is the answer. It just shows that credit scores are less of an indication of risk and more an indication of potential profit for lending agencies. If you do not have debt and are driven to stay debt free, than any lenders you deal with don't stand to make much money on interest dealing with you and have no incentive to do so.

One solution i would like to see is credit scores being information beyond the reach of any businesses that are not lenders and only with your permission to obtain a loan or credit. Living within your means could in some fields actually cost you promotions because some employers do credit checks.

Oh and don't worry. I'm not offended by the notion of being related to fiscal conservatism. My positions are varied, but i'll admit that fiscal conservatives have a lot of good points. I'll take that as a compliment

The "bad credit rating" is more to do with the fact you can't consistently prove that you can pay back within your means, rather than profit making. Some people who massively borrow can have a great credit rating, as can people who borrow very little - the rating isn't dependent on size of debt, or potential profit, but the risk of you taking out a first time loan and never being able to pay it back because you're not used to it (or you already have allocated your monthly renumeration, like salary).

A really simple way to boost your credit rating would be to get a minimal charge credit card and spend maybe £10 or so a month on it, paying the debt off immediately so it doesn't accrue any interest. As credit rating systems are mostly automated, this will begin to eventually give you a great rating as a reliable lender. It's easier said than done though, and don't use the credit card for anything more than this - those things are also the easiest way to get a bad credit rating through abuse of the card. It's far too tempting when you are stuck for money or in an awkward situation to use them beyond what you can safely pay back

You're actually making my point. People who can't live within their means constantly have to borrow money or live on credit. The fact that people who massively borrow can have great credit scores illustrates just how profit based the credit score system is. If they were actually good at allocating their funds properly, they would not need to borrow money. You can slip further and further into debt and your level of inability to live within your means and to pay back your debts will be masked by being offered increased credit limits or transferring debt to different lenders/cards without ever actually having to pay off the balance of previous debts.

The fact that your solution is simply another method of manipulating the system shows just how broken the credit rating system is. Aside from obtaining a credit score, what possible reason can one have to keep a debt balance of $10 when they don't need to be in debt? As it is, the credit rating system lumps together the most financially responsible with those who are the least financially responsible.

For myself, being without debt is a matter of honour. I know its a concept unfamiliar to most. Carrying debt should not be normal, as it is for most people now. Holding onto debt is irresponsible.

I wasn't exactly disputing your point, just making a friendly contribution

The fact remains though that borrowing should never be about being able to support yourself, and is unsustainable if you try. That's why the credit ratings system exists. If you have a large amount borrowed, it doesn't mean that you are surviving on that, it means you are using a financial system to support your activities, possibly even in a way that benefits you.

Here's a brief, casual friendly explanation (I hope). I work for a UK based international firm - to give you a scale, despite being UK based, we are one of the top 5 largest privately owned businesses in the US. Our net revenue at the end of the 2012 fiscal year was over $30Bn. We are big. We borrow insane quantities of money each month. Why? To pay wages. Every member of our firm is paid out of a credit agreement by a financial services company, because the payment is reliable and on time (whereas clients paying our bills may not be). The speed in which our bills are paid reduces the interest we pay, and we factor in this provision when creating our bills, but the important thing is that we pay our staff efficiently, we comply with local laws, we pay our taxes and so on. We are not in any danger of being bankrupt anytime soon (even though we pay $millions per month interest from overdue patyments from our clients). We have a very good credit rating. We would not be able to comply with renumeration laws, or similar without this service, and it is almost certain that every major company or firm does exactly the same thing.

It works on an individual level too - that's what consolidating a loan is, or consolidating bills, and many people choose to pay for bills from a credit account that they monitor and pay off with their own renumeration, especially if they are paid out of the normal "month end" system that utilities companies tend to accept as standard. As for that, who pays for utilities before you pay your bills? Well, they take a loan, and pay off their loan with your bill. The problem with all of this is that some people want money up front (such as suppliers), and some can only ask for payment once a product has been delivered (utilities, services, even things like computer games and movies). To bridge that gap, credit exists.

My recommendation of "£10 a month" won't give you an excellent rating, but it gives these guys an idea of your responsibility, and will get you off that dreaded 0 mark. You obviously don't have to take it, but you would have to live in the middle of nowhere nowadays while earning a great deal in order to buy a house or car without credit being involved. That's a problem sure enough, but it's definitely not one that fiscal conservatism/capitalism would ever solve. Personally, I don't have a massive problem with it, the system works when people are responsible.

 

[Lieju]

I know people who work in the entertainment industry, and they get this all the time from jealous people who overestimate how much they get paid and underestimate the amount of work they put in...

To be honest, for many artists their art doesn't pay enough, so they need another job to pay the bills. Still, it's a job, if not necessarily a well-paying one.

 

[Aramis Night]

snip
I'm not in debt to anyone for anything(something credit agencies seem to despise. Whenever they run a background check on my credit it comes out with a bad credit score because its blank). I live within my means and have been given no handouts, or benefits of any kind.
snip

I am bugging my congressmen and representatives, to pass legislation to automatically give good credit points to people every year they do not have debt. Trying to get others to join me.

I am thinking about getting more involved in politics just to bug people to fix problems like this. It is good too see other fiscal conservatives out there (Note: I said FISCAL, just nipping the dozen people hating on me for saying the "C" word)

I would love it if my lack of debt would reflect well on my credit score. But i don't think that passing laws is the answer. It just shows that credit scores are less of an indication of risk and more an indication of potential profit for lending agencies. If you do not have debt and are driven to stay debt free, than any lenders you deal with don't stand to make much money on interest dealing with you and have no incentive to do so.

One solution i would like to see is credit scores being information beyond the reach of any businesses that are not lenders and only with your permission to obtain a loan or credit. Living within your means could in some fields actually cost you promotions because some employers do credit checks.

Oh and don't worry. I'm not offended by the notion of being related to fiscal conservatism. My positions are varied, but i'll admit that fiscal conservatives have a lot of good points. I'll take that as a compliment

The "bad credit rating" is more to do with the fact you can't consistently prove that you can pay back within your means, rather than profit making. Some people who massively borrow can have a great credit rating, as can people who borrow very little - the rating isn't dependent on size of debt, or potential profit, but the risk of you taking out a first time loan and never being able to pay it back because you're not used to it (or you already have allocated your monthly renumeration, like salary).

A really simple way to boost your credit rating would be to get a minimal charge credit card and spend maybe £10 or so a month on it, paying the debt off immediately so it doesn't accrue any interest. As credit rating systems are mostly automated, this will begin to eventually give you a great rating as a reliable lender. It's easier said than done though, and don't use the credit card for anything more than this - those things are also the easiest way to get a bad credit rating through abuse of the card. It's far too tempting when you are stuck for money or in an awkward situation to use them beyond what you can safely pay back

You're actually making my point. People who can't live within their means constantly have to borrow money or live on credit. The fact that people who massively borrow can have great credit scores illustrates just how profit based the credit score system is. If they were actually good at allocating their funds properly, they would not need to borrow money. You can slip further and further into debt and your level of inability to live within your means and to pay back your debts will be masked by being offered increased credit limits or transferring debt to different lenders/cards without ever actually having to pay off the balance of previous debts.

The fact that your solution is simply another method of manipulating the system shows just how broken the credit rating system is. Aside from obtaining a credit score, what possible reason can one have to keep a debt balance of $10 when they don't need to be in debt? As it is, the credit rating system lumps together the most financially responsible with those who are the least financially responsible.

For myself, being without debt is a matter of honour. I know its a concept unfamiliar to most. Carrying debt should not be normal, as it is for most people now. Holding onto debt is irresponsible.

I wasn't exactly disputing your point, just making a friendly contribution

The fact remains though that borrowing should never be about being able to support yourself, and is unsustainable if you try. That's why the credit ratings system exists. If you have a large amount borrowed, it doesn't mean that you are surviving on that, it means you are using a financial system to support your activities, possibly even in a way that benefits you.

Here's a brief, casual friendly explanation (I hope). I work for a UK based international firm - to give you a scale, despite being UK based, we are one of the top 5 largest privately owned businesses in the US. Our net revenue at the end of the 2012 fiscal year was over $30Bn. We are big. We borrow insane quantities of money each month. Why? To pay wages. Every member of our firm is paid out of a credit agreement by a financial services company, because the payment is reliable and on time (whereas clients paying our bills may not be). The speed in which our bills are paid reduces the interest we pay, and we factor in this provision when creating our bills, but the important thing is that we pay our staff efficiently, we comply with local laws, we pay our taxes and so on. We are not in any danger of being bankrupt anytime soon (even though we pay $millions per month interest from overdue patyments from our clients). We have a very good credit rating. We would not be able to comply with renumeration laws, or similar without this service, and it is almost certain that every major company or firm does exactly the same thing.

It works on an individual level too - that's what consolidating a loan is, or consolidating bills, and many people choose to pay for bills from a credit account that they monitor and pay off with their own renumeration, especially if they are paid out of the normal "month end" system that utilities companies tend to accept as standard. As for that, who pays for utilities before you pay your bills? Well, they take a loan, and pay off their loan with your bill. The problem with all of this is that some people want money up front (such as suppliers), and some can only ask for payment once a product has been delivered (utilities, services, even things like computer games and movies). To bridge that gap, credit exists.

My recommendation of "£10 a month" won't give you an excellent rating, but it gives these guys an idea of your responsibility, and will get you off that dreaded 0 mark. You obviously don't have to take it, but you would have to live in the middle of nowhere nowadays while earning a great deal in order to buy a house or car without credit being involved. That's a problem sure enough, but it's definitely not one that fiscal conservatism/capitalism would ever solve. Personally, I don't have a massive problem with it, the system works when people are responsible.

The thing is in the beginning you make the point that borrowing should not be about supporting yourself, and then you turn around and illustrate how that is exactly what it requires for your company to exist. Your company cannot exist without borrowing money from elsewhere. If the source of your borrowed funds was to disappear and you were unable to replace it, you would be out of a job. I work for a small business. By contrast, the company i work for operates with a capital surplus to keep it from ever having to borrow money.

Your example of how month end payment works in terms of utilities falls flat when you consider that utility companies often ask for a deposit up front, much like real estate and rentals, before any service is provided. Being unable to keep a business/lifestyle going without resorting to debt is not responsible. The idea that it could be seen this way is reckless.

You say the system works when people are responsible. That may be true in theory. But people are not responsible. At least not the vast majority of them. You need only look around at the world we live in to see the evidence everywhere. When you incentivize greed and encourage cavalier attitudes towards debt, people get even less responsible. Credit scores do not give any incentive toward responsibility. They just give people reasons to game the system by playing games with $10 a month debts. On the other side they encourage usery and parasitism by lenders and borrowers.

On the other hand i also believe that declaring bankruptcy and only keeping limited credit records should be done away with. If you owe money, you owe money. period. If your paying off debts when your 60 that you accrued when you were 18, too bad. Should have made better life choices. Borrowing should never be taken lightly and the consequences should never simply be waited out. I'm just tired of seeing blatant irresponsibility passed over as acceptable or ok on either side.

 

[Aramis Night]

I know people who work in the entertainment industry, and they get this all the time from jealous people who overestimate how much they get paid and underestimate the amount of work they put in...

To be honest, for many artists their art doesn't pay enough, so they need another job to pay the bills. Still, it's a job, if not necessarily a well-paying one.

This is so true. People have seen me on various shows and ask me about it later. They actually believe i'm making bank on it. What gets me is the people who complain about it only having been there for less than 8 hrs. Some will start complaining at hour 2! I think to myself how anyone can do my job and it's the easiest job in the world but many of the others treat it like its just one big chore that they are so put off by. I'm usually somewhat happy to be there(until somewhere in hour 12-16). I guess the fact that i enjoy it makes all the difference. So many others seem to think its hard.

 

[Suave Charlie]

My girlfriend and mother have only just come to terms with what I do after 7 months of making £200 a week for the first 3 months as I did it as a hobby, and then £300+ a week since then. All working from home from my laptop, but because I didn't have to wear a suit or uniform or commute, it clearly wasn't a real job.
Never been happier than hearing that a guy who bragged about having a degree classified higher than mine was still on the dole after 6 months out of uni.

If it pays and you enjoy it, that makes it so much more satisfying when you become successful and the negativity mysteriously disappears.

 

[Cheesepower5]

People tend to say shit to feel like they have something that makes above others. Me, I go around vaguely implying that I don't say shit to feel above others. Not like you ignorant swine.


;D

 

[Ambitiousmould]

Probably been said but "Find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life". It doesn't have to involve hard work to be a job, I do a paper route, and get told to get a real job, but I'm like "why? this is easier, earns me enough for now, and still leaves loads of time to study for A-levels".

Something that isn't a real job in my mind would be an intergalactic human resources ninja, not yet anyway...