The Big Picture: Continuity Wars
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so the moral of this video is...
that Nintendo needs to release a "mushroom kingdom historia" much like they did with zelda explaining the triple-split time line within the mario games? Obviously Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island can't be in the same timeline due to massive geographical changes that just aren't possible within the 30-40 years that mario has been away. Also there has to be a third timeline where Bowser is only a jerk but still a close friend since they keep inviting him and some of his goonies to football/basketball/volleyball/tennis/go-karting all the time.
It would also explain why some power ups appear where others don't which means we can safely put all the tanooki suit games in the same timeline (on a related sidenote: fuck that suit I want my super cape back >:C, yes I know they're essentially the same)
oh boy.... I kinda want that book to happen :/
that Nintendo needs to release a "mushroom kingdom historia" much like they did with zelda explaining the triple-split time line within the mario games? Obviously Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island can't be in the same timeline due to massive geographical changes that just aren't possible within the 30-40 years that mario has been away. Also there has to be a third timeline where Bowser is only a jerk but still a close friend since they keep inviting him and some of his goonies to football/basketball/volleyball/tennis/go-karting all the time.
It would also explain why some power ups appear where others don't which means we can safely put all the tanooki suit games in the same timeline (on a related sidenote: fuck that suit I want my super cape back >:C, yes I know they're essentially the same)
oh boy.... I kinda want that book to happen :/
I was mainly hoping they would adapt the Kyle Katarn story aka. Dark Forces II, Mysteries of the Sith, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy.Gizmo1990 said:
It's the least clusterfucky content of the Expanded universe and fit in quite well with what came before in the films.
I too subscribed to the theory that the expanded Star Wars universe would be left out in the cold, because Lucas has pretty much come out and said that it's all non-canon anyway, since it contradicts the stories he was trying to tell in the prequel trilogy. Like or hate the idea behind the new Disney-produced films, the idea of a cohesive Star Wars canon went out the window when Lucas began telling the prequel trilogy some fourteen years ago.
Besides, a fresh start is really what Star Wars needs. I would personally like the new films to be as far removed from the original trilogy as possible.
Besides, a fresh start is really what Star Wars needs. I would personally like the new films to be as far removed from the original trilogy as possible.
I always enjoy how people are so quick to disregard the EU, but I often find that they always add an addendum to say "except KOTOR".
A big problem for me, among many, is the expanded Star Wars universe made better sense (to me) of Anakins conundrum. His grandson succumbs to a similar problem in the way I told a buddy it should have un-folded. Backing up: a number of conservatives said, if Hitler couldn't murder his son, that wouldn't suddenly make him a good person. Darth Vader could only be redeemable if he only turned to the dark side if, in a moment of claravoyance, understood it was the only way to defeat the emperor. That ultimately is something Anakin's own grandson does. I'm sorry that will never make it into the movies.
As for Star Trek, historically, Spock, et al. would go into the past to fix it if someone traveled backward and broke time. It feels like the current guys are happy to be part of a "fake" continiuty. Someone from 75 years in the future should come back to the "present", fix things, and make the current cast, as we know them, disappear.
It causes a kind of cognitive disonence that can ruin things for us.
As for Star Trek, historically, Spock, et al. would go into the past to fix it if someone traveled backward and broke time. It feels like the current guys are happy to be part of a "fake" continiuty. Someone from 75 years in the future should come back to the "present", fix things, and make the current cast, as we know them, disappear.
It causes a kind of cognitive disonence that can ruin things for us.
I've always felt trying to impart any kind of solid continuity to Mario's world is an exercise in futility- nearly impossible, and a waste of time even if it was done. There's just too many conflicting ideas and different 'universes' and all that sort of stuff, and at the end of the day, it isn't going to make my enjoyment of Mario games any richer. Mario has never really been about the story- it doesn't matter why Bowser is trying to rule the universe one day and will enter kart races with his nemesis the next day. All the story has to do is give me a reason to run across the world, or to collect as many stars as I can. Also, it's also possible that Shy Guys, Bob-ombs etc. were in Mario's dream because he'd seen them before while he was awake. That, or Christina Hendricks is some kind of dream-hopping demigod in the real world.
As long as the new movies don't piss on the Dark Horse comics (not likely since they came almost immediately after the original trilogy, so the actors' age won't allow it), the Thrawn trilogy (not likely either; same reason), the New Jedi Order series (has a definite possibility of being screwed over), or the Fate of the Jedi series (another almost definite) then I'll be happy. If they do... well, there's a reason something called <a HREF=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanonDiscontinuity>Fanon Discontinuity exists. God knows I've had to use it more than once on this bloody franchise.
Also, I've been waiting for MovieBob to make a Super Mario Bros. vid since this series started. It's obvious he want to do one now too, so just do one already man!
Also, I've been waiting for MovieBob to make a Super Mario Bros. vid since this series started. It's obvious he want to do one now too, so just do one already man!
Except you always get these people shouting "oh the EU sucks so much!" and then put KOTOR aside. So in essence, in their minds, everything sucks except for what they like, regardless of if they've read it or not.Do4600 said:
Also, somewhat ironically, Cloned Palpatine and the Dark Empire was some of the EU that George Lucas actually likes. When it was first published, he gave copies away to his staff for Christmas he liked it so much.Do4600 said:
As a die-hard Star Wars fan who has read a lot of the expanded universe material, it doesn't actually bother me that there will very likely be two separate continuities. I was already accepting of this fact like you Bob when the annoucenment came and figured sure they could throw in some of the characters from the books and it could work but I won't be disappointed if they don't. First and foremost I just want them to make a great Star Wars film, that's really all I care about. I guess I'm more laid back when it comes to continuity (at least continuity between books and film/tv, the internal logic of the films/TV should be consistent) so bring on the alternative universe if it means we get good original stories set after Return of the Jedi starring Luke, Leia and Han in at least some capacity, as that's what I've wanted the most.
Ok as an EU fan, when they first started working on the EU back in the early 90s, most of us took it as a symbol that they(Lucas) may never get to Episode 7 and beyond. The fact that a bunch of writer agreed to taking sections of the future story and working off already EU established work made it nice to read. A long drawn out story that hardly contradicts although sometime creating crazy and ridiculous scenarios.
It not that we(all) thought the movies would follow the EU, it that the new movies now throws a lot of the good stories out the window is kind of sad.
It not that we(all) thought the movies would follow the EU, it that the new movies now throws a lot of the good stories out the window is kind of sad.
I just have one damn question, Bob....
Could you tell me where the image from 1:08 is from? Because I would read the hell out of that book.
Awesome video as always, dude. While I love the DC characters more than the Marvel ones... I can't help but look over at Marvel and regard that continuity with some jealousy.
DC are a little afraid of their history, I think.
Could you tell me where the image from 1:08 is from? Because I would read the hell out of that book.
Awesome video as always, dude. While I love the DC characters more than the Marvel ones... I can't help but look over at Marvel and regard that continuity with some jealousy.
DC are a little afraid of their history, I think.
Look, just adapt Vector Prime, and I'll call Star Wars VII the best thing ever. Okay, Abrahms?
Here is the current official stance on canon, in order of importance
G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).[1]
T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6].
C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.
S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.
N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.
D is Detours Canon, used for material hailing from Star Wars Detours.[8]
Here is the current official stance on canon, in order of importance
G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).[1]
T-canon,[2] or Television Canon[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.[4][5] It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee[6].
C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.
S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.
N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.
D is Detours Canon, used for material hailing from Star Wars Detours.[8]
Is it bad I had a big stupid grin on my face whenever he went off on a Mario tangent?
Just too bad about Bioware and SWTOR. I'll just pretend SWTOR never happened.
Probably because a lot of people liked the KotOR series at one time. I'm a big fan of KotOR II, and to a lesser extent KotOR I myself. On the subject of retroactive continuity though . . . Star Wars: The Old Republic pretty much destroyed KotOR and KotOR II, retconning nearly everything in sight, twisting and destroying a series I'd loved prior. A sign of just how far Bioware has fallen, in regard to KotOR and a sign that Obsidian being put in charge of KotOR II, rather than Bioware, was a very good thing.Soviet Heavy said:
Just too bad about Bioware and SWTOR. I'll just pretend SWTOR never happened.
