Gotta chime in and agree with Bob on his last statement. Spider-Girl was a fabulous series and I would highly recommend it.
The Big Picture: Groan Saga
- Thread starter MovieBob
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Sooooooo... is it the result of this same period that had Marvel kill off like 70% of it's main characters? You know, the whole Onslaught thing?
Man, I don't know what you're talking about. I loved Ben Reilly. I miss him to this day. I always felt that Spiderman had this deep melancholy atached to him. Not Ben Reilly. The one where he kicks Venom's ass is still my favorite one of all time. When they killed him, I stopped reading ALL american comic books (DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, Image etc). I lost all interest after that. I still kept reading a lot of mangas, but that was pretty much the end of comics to me. I loved that character, and when they just threw him in the garbage without any explanation I decided to stop reading american comics. That was the kind of effect it had on me. It really surprises me that a guy who complains so much about fanboysm would do a entire show on complaining about the only huge change in Spiderman's universe. I may be completely wrong, but that seems like double standards. Then, perhaps I'm the only one who feel that way. I hope I'm not sounding too agressive, but you (Mr. Chipman) are a very smart man, who can read between the lines, and can take constructive criticism.
Very big hug!
Very big hug!
I'm surprised that you stuck with the clone saga. I couldn't take it anymore and had to stop reading it. I always wondered what happened with that.
I never really followed any of the superhero comics faithfully, but I would pick up the odd issue of Spider-man and Batman. I remember stopping by my local comic book store during this entire fiasco and seeing that horrible costume on the front cover and shaking my head in shame.
Understanding the Clone Saga makes advanced calculus look easy.
Seriously, it used to be the running gag at my home town comic store - If you mentioned the Clone Saga to one of the guys, he'd have an aneurysm and wake up three days later from ranting too hard.
Seriously, it used to be the running gag at my home town comic store - If you mentioned the Clone Saga to one of the guys, he'd have an aneurysm and wake up three days later from ranting too hard.
I have recently started to explore comics as a storytelling medium, and lack of consistency is the main thing that keeps me away. I really want to love the medium of comics, but can't deal with it when any event can be robbed of its emotional impact and depth by being re-written or reinterpreted later. I don't even care how unrealistic or fantastical it is as long as the story can remain consistent within its own rules, but most comics apparently have no rules.
Does anyone know where I can find a list of comics that tell stories rather than a bunch of contradictory episodes? I have managed to find some that I liked, although none in the superhero genre (Sandman, Preacher, Transmetropolitan)
Does anyone know where I can find a list of comics that tell stories rather than a bunch of contradictory episodes? I have managed to find some that I liked, although none in the superhero genre (Sandman, Preacher, Transmetropolitan)
Comics are Wierd almost needs its own video series at this point, though even without that, I look foreward to somes looks at books to prepare for our superhero movie summer: Thor and Eric MAsterson, Captain America's Dergrading Super Soldier Serium, Hal Jordan's troubles (might need two parts). Man, looking back, you gotta wonder why we read all that crap. Gotta Love the Soap Opera effect.
The clone Saga is something I give the A for effort and a C- for execution (a generous grade, but given the forced extention due to popular hatred of Ben Reily, I'll overlook much of the second year). There were nice ideas in there. I liked Kaine, thought things would be more interesting with an out of the game Spider-Man facing off against experienced villans with a grude, and was happy we might actualy move some characters on to other non comic things. I'll even say I liked the idea of the Jackel: a Joker level looney with enough advanced bio-chemesrty to be a serious threat to the world, not just Gothem city.
Then there were other problems: forced lengthing, retconning a retconn (there was a different explaination for the clones from back to the Evolutionary War (1988) they had to undo to make them real clones) a couple of Gwen stacey clones unaccounted for, Jackel not really living up to potential (though he did wipe out a small town witha plague), Spidercide, and that's just the stuff at the time. It took years to make Norman a real badass threat (in the fraking Thunderbolts, not the Spidey books), bringing back Aunt May invaladated an issue I left rear marks on, and don't get me started on baby May.
Still, I wouldn't call it Spidey's lowest point. That honer doesn't even go to One May Day and all it's fanfiction-ness. Sins Past: the story that claims Gwen pumped out a set of twins from Norman Osborn, THAT one hurt.
As for Spider-Girl, a fun book, but never lived up to the potential from the first two years. As soon as she won the respect of her father it slowly devoled into MC2 version of [blank] over larger stories and characterization (same thing with the Ultimate Spidey books). You know they were out of ideas when she got her own damn clone (or rather a clone / venom symboite hybrid). Some of the oddness of the 90s seeps through.
The clone Saga is something I give the A for effort and a C- for execution (a generous grade, but given the forced extention due to popular hatred of Ben Reily, I'll overlook much of the second year). There were nice ideas in there. I liked Kaine, thought things would be more interesting with an out of the game Spider-Man facing off against experienced villans with a grude, and was happy we might actualy move some characters on to other non comic things. I'll even say I liked the idea of the Jackel: a Joker level looney with enough advanced bio-chemesrty to be a serious threat to the world, not just Gothem city.
Then there were other problems: forced lengthing, retconning a retconn (there was a different explaination for the clones from back to the Evolutionary War (1988) they had to undo to make them real clones) a couple of Gwen stacey clones unaccounted for, Jackel not really living up to potential (though he did wipe out a small town witha plague), Spidercide, and that's just the stuff at the time. It took years to make Norman a real badass threat (in the fraking Thunderbolts, not the Spidey books), bringing back Aunt May invaladated an issue I left rear marks on, and don't get me started on baby May.
Still, I wouldn't call it Spidey's lowest point. That honer doesn't even go to One May Day and all it's fanfiction-ness. Sins Past: the story that claims Gwen pumped out a set of twins from Norman Osborn, THAT one hurt.
As for Spider-Girl, a fun book, but never lived up to the potential from the first two years. As soon as she won the respect of her father it slowly devoled into MC2 version of [blank] over larger stories and characterization (same thing with the Ultimate Spidey books). You know they were out of ideas when she got her own damn clone (or rather a clone / venom symboite hybrid). Some of the oddness of the 90s seeps through.
The clone saga was all the more confusing that its explosion in the 90s was splitted apart between The amazing Spider-man series and the Spectacular Spider-man, making it hell for those who (like my dad (hey, I was like 3-4 years old at the time!)) were only subscribers to one of the two.
