The Big Picture: Leave Michael Bay Alone

[BlindChance]

Not sure if someone in the previous 142 pages said this because time but...

What about the ever present discussion, by you inclusive Bob, about Bay's lack of shot framing, disguised by frantic editing? I'd always understood that to be the major critical knock on his aesthetic.

 

[KazeAizen]

Been saying for a long time now that the audiences are the problem with movies today and not so much the film makers themselves. If you wanna get paid and have a career you better have something that can be marketed with a big pay out at the end.

While I'm not the biggest fan of his more recent work taken as a whole (outside of Pain and Gain which I loved) there are still great moments inside his movies which kind of make it worth seeing, Revenge of the Fallen aside that is. Moments like the battle for Chicago in Dark of the Moon where all hell is breaking loose and we're finally getting to see this all out war we've spent two other movies hearing about. While the entire film isn't the best thing ever in my opinion setups like that are definitely worth seeing the film at least once.

I've never quite understood all the hate he gets when there are far worse films out there getting far bigger followings which have far worse impacts on the industry as a whole. I mean anyone who contributed to the Twilight Saga made sure these hokey tween romance/dramas centered around supernatural nonsense will be in theaters for at least another ten years if not more if another franchise really catches on. While Revenge of the Fallen is an awful film from start to finish there are circumstances around it which kind of explain why it was so bad such as the writers' strike so filming begun before they had a script finalized or the accident during one of the scenes which forced them to re-purpose footage from The Island for the highway chase sequence. Not all of this falls on Bay's shoulders.

Doubt I will go see the new Transformers in theaters, just Redbox it later when it comes out. Seems to be the best way to enjoy his films in my opinion.

I think a Redbox rental would be good. It does start to feel long but I will say when the Dino bots show up it is another sign that Michael Bay really isn't a hack at directing action. The shots are all well edited and mostly still so you can see the action. The choreography is great and they actually make splendid use of the Dino bots size and unique characteristics. Hell he even figured out the final fight. The final fight with Lockdown is an actual fight with Optimus, Bumblebee, and even the humans all trying to bring him down. Not a 3 second finishing move like he did in the last three movies. He is no hack. He knows what he's doing.

 

[prpshrt]

I went and saw the most recent one. It was better than the previous two because they weren't afraid to fodderize humans in the crossfire (because humans suck u.u). It would have been better if he reduced the movie by like an hour. Kinda overstayed its welcome. They did megatron's rebirth kinda poorly. Also glad they got rid of shia.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Oh I remember back when you grilled audiences for choosing The Expendables over Scott Pilgrim vs The World.
It was the first time I was legitimately miffed at what you said; you broke the cardinal rule of reviewing, to never equate the movie and its audience. Oh how naive of me to think Hackywood would get better; today I've come to embrace the entropy and blame the audience.

They've killed cinema for me; I don't want to watch movies anymore because it's all so similar. Trailers look the same, sound the same, are cut the same...pointless reboots and remakes over-saturate the showings list week after week, month after month, year after year (especially last year, though 2013 is a banner year for low standards going to cinema).

So towards one end, I will agree with you Bob: It's tiring.

I'm tired of hearing about Michael Bay. I'm tired of seeing Michael Bay films, especially when they aren't produced by Michael Bay. I'm tired of Hackywood, to the point where it is nothing short of miraculous that I see more than two films a year in cinema, let alone one I legitimately LOVE. I'm burnt out. I'm done. Movies have become sources of disappointment frustration and boredom rather than (intentional) entertainment for me.

 

[Webb Myers]

The actual reason people "hate" Michael Bay? It's because he FORCES the audience to feel things. Near the end of his movies, we will inevitably be treated to a montage of slow-mo, low-angle, shots of family and all-that's-good with evocative music playing in the background. We are wired to respond to that stimulus, and even though our minds are saying "This movie is garbage, why am I ?"...we'll still be feeling deeply during an otherwise mindless movie that has done nothing to deserve that level of emotional engagement.

No one likes being manipulated. Michael Bay is shameless (and really, really good) at manipulating us. THAT is why we all hate Michael Bay.

 

[Jacob Bawden]

You ask why Michael Bay's the seemingly singular target for why "movies are bad" and "Hollywood has gone down the drain"? You then listed all his supposed crimes, while also listing the same grievances shared by other film makers? That's exactly why Bay is the cumulative punching bag for the critics.

It's not that he shares these faults, it's that he has ALL of the them in almost every movie he makes; the Transformers movies only highlight this because he's gone on record as not really caring about the material so he does whatever with it.

When he wants to (Pain & Gain the prime example) he can make great movies what, while encapsulating what are commonly his cinematic crutches, also are used to punctuate whatever story element he's aiming for. But he doesn't try often. While his schlock is popular and money making for the average movie goer, who will often say they only go to the movies to be entertained and not think hard, and that brainlessness is what leads to more of the same, that doesn't mean that he is blameless for presenting the material. Popular doesn't mean good, and fun doesn't mean meaningful.

Your equalization of Bay just passing the fries to the person is false; he's not passing the fries, he's the one who made and seasoned them for prime fattening.

 

[orangeapples]

So, Michael Bay's fans are essentially the same people who go to Tyler Perry movies?

I honestly think that Trans4mers was the worst of the franchise then again I've seen people praise the movie because Shia Lebouf wasn't in it as if he was the only problem.You're right Bob, people are dumb which is why Call of Duty can be a huge hit every year.

 

[Sheen Lantern]

Err..Bob, you just basically admitted Bay is the singularity of awfululness, that he embodies the worst parts of every filmmaker, and that just because other people do one of the bad things he does, it excuses him for doing them all simultaneously

 

[Vrach]

I'm sorry Bob, but did you notice you just used one of those arguments you can apply to everything and blame the general public? From politics to every single kind of consumer product.

Sure, the fault is in the consumer. It always kinda sorta is. But we (mostly) live in capitalism where the consumer is the one doing the downward dog most of the time, so maybe, faced with a choice of placing the blame on the few and placing the blame on the millions, the problem is with the few, because it's a couple million times easier for them to change, than for those millions of random people.

In short, commercial success does not alleviate the responsibility of a creator.

As for MB though, yeah, he's a public effigy for all things "Hollywood" about Hollywood. Not all fault of the cinematic universe lies with him. However, there is a reason he was chosen to be 'the one' and my guess would be one of the options you've offered - he hits the nail on the head with a lot of things Hollywood does wrong. Making commercially successful movies is only another nail when coupled with the rest, rather than a plus.

 

[Machine Man 1992]

People go to loud, stupid movies for the same reason people stick M-80's in water bottles: the simple act of exploding things stimulates the pleasure center like a courtesan made of opium.

We, the general public, go to movies like these to relax. We have lives, and families, and stupid, stupid jobs where we deal with shitheel customers on a regular basis. A nice, uncomplicated film about robots punching each other in the face is appealing. Sure you get films that have crossover appeal, ones that houghty-toughty film buffs and average Joe both enjoy like Inception or The Dark Knight Saga.

I think Bay realizes what he is and exploits that t its' fullest potential. He knows that he makes stupid, but fun to watch movies, and he knows that he's the studio's money making machine. So he makes what he thinks would be cool to watch, and gets payed a mint for it.

 

[The Great JT]

...so Michael Bay's a McDonalds employee?

 

[Sofox]

STUNT DAWGS!

That cartoon series barely gets any mention, I watched it a lot when I was a kid, it was fun. Didn't expect to see it pop up!

You guys remember Stunt Dawgs right?

...

Right?

...

*sigh*

It's at 4:34, Bob shows a pic of the main antagonist from Stunt Dawgs, he's a director who's cry is "Lights! Camera! Mayhem!!!" Overall, it's a great choice.

 

[pearcinator]

Should I refer to your review of '2012' in which you explained EXACTLY why Michael Bay sucks.

"It's simple, good film-making verses bad film-making"

Everyone that hates Michael Bay movies (including I) hates them because someone else would have done it better. We all know his movies are made for 'the masses', a majority of which aren't movie buffs like us. They see a movie maybe once a month and watch a movie at home maybe twice a week; whereas we regularly go once a week and watch movies every day.

The problem with his movies are because they are bloated and you can't tell what's going on half the time. If they had a different director with the same screenplay then it probably would have ended up being a better movie. Less 'loud' and more heartfelt. With that said, The Island is a pretty good movie (ignoring the terrible action scenes) and Pain & Gain wasn't too bad.

Maybe Michael Bay should stop trying to one-up his action movies by 'adding more action than the last movie' and focus on two or three action set-pieces that are memorable and well-thought-out instead of generic, mind-numbing explosions everywhere.

 

[RvLeshrac]

Been saying for a long time now that the audiences are the problem with movies today and not so much the film makers themselves. If you wanna get paid and have a career you better have something that can be marketed with a big pay out at the end.

Plenty of us have been saying exactly that for years. It is also the same problem in the game industry. And the comic industry. And every other media industry. And society as a whole.

And when we do, people like Bob tell us to fuck off. Until they produce a video doing exactly the same thing, and pass this off as somehow being their own personal enlightenment from the universe. Then this becomes the Absolute Truth.

Until one of us points out that consumers are the reason we have shitty media. Then they tell us to fuck off again.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

If there's one thing the recent Transformers films has taught me it's that the franchise as a whole will survive as long as there is an audience that feels drawn to the nostalgic core of what Transformers is. That won't last, of course, as our generation gets old and new generations spring up with their own hobbies and passions. That's fine.

If nothing else, the backlash against Bay's work has rekindled the love my generation had for the Transformers and I get to watch more of that show than I ever got as a kid. And not just the old stuff. New shows, video games, and more toys. The love I have for Transformers lives on, content and glutted on the sheer amount of choice I have to indulge in my geeky love for the franchise.

 

[Netrigan]

So, Michael Bay's fans are essentially the same people who go to Tyler Perry movies?

The people who watch Michael Bay movies also enjoy Community, Arrested Development, Game of Thrones, CSI, NCIS, The Goonies, Citizen Kane, Troll 2, love KISS both ironically and unironically, hate KISS, think Goldeneye is the greatest video game ever, think Call of Duty is the greatest game ever, think Halo is the greatest game ever, love Citizen Kane, never saw Citizen Kane, thought Sucker Punch was brilliant, thought Sucker Punch was garbage, and on and on.

They just like the movie. That's all. It signifies nothing more than the ability to enjoy a big dumb action movie that is made by Michael Bay. They're brilliant, they're stupid, they're every point in between.

We do this every time something is a success that we don't personally enjoy; we try to discredit the people who enjoy it as if they're some mass of folks who signify everything that is wrong with the world , forgetting that the numbers are so huge that they permeate every level of society. They're the same kind of people who made Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark classic films. They're same people who (statistically speaking) embraced Dark Knight and rejected Green Lantern. They're just people who wanted to see giant robots punch each other while stuff 'sploded.

I hate American Idol. I would love to pretend that the people who watch the show are music hating mouth-breathers, but they're not. They just happen to like that sort of thing. And some people really enjoy John Carter and make up elaborate excuses why that is that don't boil down to "a bunch of people just didn't think it looked good."

 

[MCerberus]

It's actually the circle of crap at this point
People are raised on stupid.
So they don't like smart.
So they keep seeing stupid.
Then they raise their kids on what they like, stupid.

Who would have thought that nutrition science and cinema would be fighting the same monster?

 

[Netrigan]

They're just people who wanted to see giant robots punch each other while stuff 'sploded.

So then I wonder why a good movie like Pacific Rim has a rough time and a movie that is objectively worse in every conceivable level like transformers is a huge success?

A movie can be shallow or singular in its intent and not be terrible. But people go out of their way to support garbage like CoD or Transformers. They aren't the worst properties in their respected mediums, but their success far outweighs their quality. Its that disconnect that upsets people.

Because they're not objectively worse in every conceivable way.

There's all sorts of things which lead to a successful marketing campaign. I enjoyed the hell out of Pacific Rim, but I found the trailers (and a decent amount of the movie) kind of murky looking. Had it not been from the director of Hellboy, there's a very good chance I would have passed. When Transformers 2 came out, I was a dedicated Bay-Hater, having disliked The Rock and only enjoying the Earthbound part of Armageddon... but, god help me, I wanted to watch that movie after the trailer. And I might burn in hell for saying this, but I was more entertained by Shia's antics than I was the dull performance of Charlie Hunnam, whose Sons of Anarchy awesomeness seemed to have abandoned him for Pacific Rim. Bay's movies are horribly written, but I find myself entertained by them nonetheless.

As for CoD, the first Modern Warfare game had one hell of a single player campaign and a lot of folks really enjoyed the multiplayer (I never tried it so I can't possibly comment) and even if they've never reached that high water mark since then, it's only very recently that game critics have started not giving the game 10/10s... which corresponds to them losing some of their fanbase to the similarly themed Battlefield 4. CoD is where it is because it's been good... and if it stops being good, it will fall sooner or later. Halo, who once dominated the scene, seems to be on the way down as well.

 

[dtgenshiken7]

Personally I dislike him because he's an awful director, and for his grand magnum f*ck up that was Pearl Harbour. He's done too much damage to not be attacked for every film he does, and while it's true that the audience cops a lot of the blame for going to his movies, I don't, and I never will again. It's not because of the million sins you threw into this argument, it's mostly because his movies are so inexplicably dumb, shoddy and held together with half-assed special effects and too many explosions.

So yeah, you make a good point. But I'm going to go ahead and keep bashing Michael Bays movies every time they come out, and I'm going to keep blaming him, because he is not THE problem, but he is A problem.

 

[Netrigan]

Bay's movies are horribly written, but I find myself entertained by them nonetheless.

I, and from what I can gather most people that dislike them, find the movies dreadfully boring. What about them do you find entertaining? Specifically what aspects do you enjoy and unironically think are good.
Trying to see it objectively as possible, everything in this series has been wrong. The acting, writing, plot, special effects, editing, casting. With maybe the exception of Marky Mark, I've yet to see the fourth film.

As for your point about trailers, I think that I can mostly agree. Hell, every time I see a GIANT ROBOT DINOSAUR in the latest trailer I want to see that movie. But then I remember the other three movies and resolve to not be fooled. As far as I'm aware Grimlock has less than 5 minutes screen time and isn't even refereed to by name. Not surprising.
Often times marketing outright lies to the audience about the product. And you cant blame the general public for that.

It just seems like Bay has a decent handle on people's ADD. Generally speaking whenever I find myself getting a bit bored in one of his movies, he throws some random bit of entertainment my way that keeps me going.

Personally I find the big finale in The Avengers to be pretty boring, except when the Hulk pops up or Robert Downey throws down a one-liner. The Battle of Chicago goes on for much longer, but Bay kept my interest thanks to his more frequent use of humor. Some folks love The Avengers more because of all the Hero Moments, but in the face of an uninteresting CGI horde, humor is your best friend.

I was actually a bit bored with Transformers 4, which is done to Marky Mark being far less entertaining to watch than the idiots running around in the first three movies. The Transformers themselves are more fun to watch, but the expense of CG means they can't get nearly enough screen time to make the slog of a finale work without the humans being fun to watch.