The Big Picture: Maddening

[Treblaine]

The rest of your post is so full of assumptions it's actually difficult to know where to start...

You have to realise, till recently I had ONLY heard about Michael Vick from video game commentators like yourself and Markus Beer and others. I don't think you realise what a picture you have painted, you really have made him out worse than the most prolific serial killers, I mean this is as bad as you have ever described anyone. And you've made some references to some pretty horrific characters in your time.

And I'm sorry but the race issue does have to come up, the only public figures that I can find who have stood up for him have been fellow black sportsman.

Think about this, this is more about the crime, more than the punishment, it is the person.

Racism is a subtle and powerful force, it can cloud the best judgement.

[edit: I AM NOT saying "movie bomb is a racist" no. I'm simply stating the scientific truth that everyone has an inherent racial bias at some level and the only way to truly combat this evil instinct is to admit our weaknesses. Now "racists" I'd call people who recognise this emotion but EMBRACE it. I do not think Bob has been doing that, not. at. all. Just that he's let his emotions get away with him here.]

I mean you have resorted to such hyperbole here, showing pictures of the most benign and fragile dog breeds. At no point did you mention dog-fighting. None of the white commentators did, it wasn't till I read the quote of someone who turned out to be black did I find someone to frankly say what he had done.

Surely when you say he "tortured" the animal and showed a picture of a little poodle dog you KNOW what people are going to think.

They are not going to think dog-fighting, they are going to think someone secretly doing evil things in some basement. Something out of Law & order SVU but with a puppy. Why do you keep doing this Bob?

You're a smart guy, but why do you treat us like idiots?

I do NOT like being bullshitted to. No one does. I had enough of that from Michael Moore back when I was younger and more naive, you bullshit people and you push them away.

Just be frank for goodness snake.

 

[Zeetchmen]

I love you Bob! Can't see why people still support the overpaied ball thrower myself

 

[DannibalG36]

I quote: "It's just a dog."

There are worse things you can do. Bob is overreacting like a whiny schizz.

 

[lastjustice]

With the US often promoting A holes I can't get too worked up over this. I mean look at all reality stars like Sheen who are train wrecks. We can't even hold our public servants to any real standards of being a role model in many cases why should are entertainers? Athletes aren't role models they re just people are good at sports. I guess Michael Vick is the hero we deserve, not the hero we need?

Ultimately Vick will make mountains of money and already has been on the cover of the game. What are we really denying him in all this?( I mean how much of an honor is it really be on the cover of madden..especially with the whole Curse factor?) It's not like they were going omit him from it like they used to do with old school basketball games with Shaq and MJ( since they'd be often prevented from appearing due to selling their rights out. I remember laughing at #23 with no picture, name and nearly maxed stats) because he's going not be on the cover. Michael Vick wins either way as this only draw more attention to him.

The legal system has done whatever it was going to do with him already so rest is out of my hands. What he did was wrong (I don't care for dogs for most part. Especially after one attacked my little brother when he was 11, but I'd never torture one for kicks.), but you cant take an eye for an eye attitude on it. Justice was served , and he gets his chance to go forward. May be he screws up again and winds up a broken poor old man with no marketable skills and criminal record that keeps him from ever working again. May be he geniunely redeems himself, and his actions ultimately draw more attention to dog fighting, preventing more loss of life than his crimes caused. I'm not going loose any sleep either way. Karma will dole out whatever he needs. Stopping him from being on Madden will make hardly any difference in his life.

 

[feeqmatic]

I love you Bob! Can't see why people still support the overpaied ball thrower myself

This statement is party the essence of why some "support" Vick. He is being unfairly attacked not for the crime of dogfighting, but moresoe the crime of being an overpaid young black athlete.

Even in bob's post there is more criticism of the sport and the culture that supports it (ie jock culture who had to reaaaaly hurt bob for all of the veiled and direct attacks he makes on them) than it is about dogfighting.

I dont think Bob is a racist, but most people arent OVERTLY racist. Things just come out based on cultural norms and familiarity. More than anything i think bob is biased against jock culture which deserves no bigger of a beatdown than nerd culture half the time, but Bob doesnt see it this way.

 

[Serioli]

"The animal died because he likes dog fighting."

Consider this: dog-fighting is a blood sport that used to be widely popular and is now acceptable in the impoverished black communities that Vick has come from.

Why do you think 'mid-air-plane-combat' was called "dogfighting" back in the early 20th century, because back then the practice was common enough in society.

Maybe all those poor black folk should pay $10'000 per hunting licence for the "socially accepted" blood sport of deer hunt as practised predominantly by white people.

Or maybe we all need to step back and realise that it is a bunch of white people (who had very sheltered upbringing) demonizing a black man who lived a life of poverty until comparatively recent success, and the only people who are defending him are other black people.

Or maybe we could not kill animals 'for a laugh'. To mix our examples:

Which would you choose to kill.

A) a human
b) a deer
C) Neither because it is unnecessary.

Additionally, I clearly understand and acknowledge there is a difference between human and [insert animal here] death, I made a point of bolding, that in the exact circumstances (2 choices) I would choose human survival every time.

 

[Zeetchmen]

[This statement is party the essence of why some "support" Vick. He is being unfairly attacked not for the crime of dogfighting, but moresoe the crime of being an overpaid young black athlete.

Even in bob's post there is more criticism of the sport and the culture that supports it (ie jock culture who had to reaaaaly hurt bob for all of the veiled and direct attacks he makes on them) than it is about dogfighting.

I dont think Bob is a racist, but most people arent OVERTLY racist. Things just come out based on cultural norms and familiarity. More than anything i think bob is biased against jock culture which deserves no bigger of a beatdown than nerd culture half the time, but Bob doesnt see it this way.

All althletes are highly overpaied for what they do, regardless what color they happen to be

 

[Treblaine]

Or maybe we could not kill animals 'for a laugh'. To mix our examples:

Which would you choose to kill.

A) a human
b) a deer
C) Neither because it is unnecessary.

Additionally, I clearly understand and acknowledge there is a difference between human and [insert animal here] death, I made a point of bolding, that in the exact circumstances (2 choices) I would choose human survival every time.

That is a straw-man argument again. Again you are saying both are bad and ignoring the distinction between the two bad options.

And yes, I get it that you would do neither and neither should anybody do either, but that is not what has happened here.

The issue is Vick is being vilified as committing some unprecedented evil, when the world is not so black and white (though to SOME they sure do seem to see the world in Black or White).

Just take a step back and think, if a white sportsman had been partaking in an illegal sport practised predominantly by white people, like say illegally trapping animals on his estate. Would there be the same outrage? I don't think there would.

Would all the commentators put up pictures of Bambi and label this white man with torture and murder? it's cruel and callous but not torture, not murder.

I agree with bob in-so-much as we should have a line of decency, where once you cross that there are unavoidable consequences. But it is wrong to say EVERYTHING beyond that line is as bad as each other, it trivialises the more serious crimes and ultimately deceives.

I think you might get a ban from that post (I skimmed through it though so I unno) but I agree that Bob this year and a bit of last year is kind of losing his touch and is a bit desperate to get his opinions and ideas across, I'd much prefer it if he left it up to the viewer to decide their opinions instead of just giving his opinion even if he needs to exaggerate it.

I'm still gonna watch the Big Picture though because it gives me something to think about when I'm bored lol.

I edited the post now to make a small clarification, but otherwise what is the problem.

Looking back at the video bob did mention dog fighting but the way he presented it in "allegedly" quotes it sounded like he was just covering his ass legally and putting the "this is the WORST STUFF you can do" he implied the dog-fighting was jsut a technicality they got him on.

WORST STUFF

I don't know about Bob, I've seen some pretty horrific shit in my time done to fellow human beings. Things that I wish I'd never even heard about, like endemic cases of gang child rape in southern africa. And hyping up dog fighting to be as bad as all the evils in the world... you can see how I and others would assume Vick did way more than let two violent dogs fight each other.

I don't know, maybe Bob has led a very sheltered life and is simply unaware of all the sickeningly horrible things that are done, maybe dog fighting is the worst stuff he knows of.

 

[Serioli]

My bit

That is a straw-man argument again. Again you are saying both are bad and ignoring the distinction between the two bad options.

And yes, I get it that you would do neither and neither should anybody do either, but that is not what has happened here.

The issue is Vick is being vilified as committing some unprecedented evil, when the world is not so black and white (though to SOME they sure do seem to see the world in Black or White).

Just take a step back and think, if a white sportsman had been partaking in an illegal sport practised predominantly by white people, like say illegally trapping animals on his estate. Would there be the same outrage? I don't think there would.

Would all the commentators put up pictures of Bambi and label this white man with torture and murder? it's cruel and callous but not torture, not murder.

I agree with bob in-so-much as we should have a line of decency, where once you cross that there are unavoidable consequences. But it is wrong to say EVERYTHING beyond that line is as bad as each other, it trivialises the more serious crimes and ultimately deceives.

Ah, I apologise because I didn't/don't see the distinction between the two. Not sure if it means I see the world in black and white or because I don't notice black and white but his race didn't even factor in for me.

If a white sportsman had committed the same (dog-fighting) or a similar act (killing bambi) I can assure you he would get the same response from me (i.e. don't do it because it is unnecessary). I have no idea what other commentators would do and I have no idea if their actions would be founded on skin colour as I am not them.

I approached it simply from the perspective of dog-fighting, if it is in fact a skin colour issue then that is something else entirely, again I can't comment as I simply don't get racism.

EDIT: Just re-read your original quote again and I think you have mis-interpreted that I am equalising two very different acts. I used the A,B & C example as it was an extension of the one used in the post of the person I quoted. I am not trying to state that someone who kills a dog should be put in the same bracket as a guy who goes around punching people for a laugh or one who rapes children (different bracket agin) etc.

 

[badmunky64]

yes Vick deserved to go to jail and whatnot but the man has done his time. beyond that, i don't care if his face is gonna be on the next Madden. I've never bought the games and if other want to waste their money on it than go for it.

 

[Seamus8]

I can't tell what's worse, the Vick haters that have way too much respect for animals, or the counterarguement that clearly places equally exaggerated worth on human life.

Both animals are overpopulated introduced species.

If you happen to be carrying a firearm and find a human with a knife locked in combat with the bengal tiger, what would you shoot?

I would hope most people would shoot the human, as the tiger is more rare and valuable.

Now of course selfishness is to be expected and even fully permitted, such that if it was a friend or loved one in a struggle with a tiger (or someone that owed you money) killing the tiger would be justified. That's just relativism at work. There is no valid arguement, however, that humans hold more intrinsic worth than any other species. Unrelated humans are more often a competitor for food an resources than any kind of aid to their fellow humans. Would I kill my own property (dog) if it would have stopped the Rawanda Genocide, the Holocaust, or worldwide starvation? Of course not.

As an example, the car arguement; is there any reason that I should stop a car or swerve when hitting a child over a dog? Legal reasons aside, if I'm the type person who would stop and help a child I should equally stop and help a dog. If I'm the type of person who would just keep on rolling after hitting a dog then I should have no moral qualms about doing the same thing to a mancub.

 

[feeqmatic]

[This statement is party the essence of why some "support" Vick. He is being unfairly attacked not for the crime of dogfighting, but moresoe the crime of being an overpaid young black athlete.

Even in bob's post there is more criticism of the sport and the culture that supports it (ie jock culture who had to reaaaaly hurt bob for all of the veiled and direct attacks he makes on them) than it is about dogfighting.

I dont think Bob is a racist, but most people arent OVERTLY racist. Things just come out based on cultural norms and familiarity. More than anything i think bob is biased against jock culture which deserves no bigger of a beatdown than nerd culture half the time, but Bob doesnt see it this way.

All althletes are highly overpaied for what they do, regardless what color they happen to be

My point is that if a person is mad about the nature of how athletes get paid then fine let that present itself as the issue. In this case people are crying for Vicks head and using his crime as an excuse, but really they mostly are angry at the fact that he is a rich athlete who has gotten into trouble and is getting a second chance at being a rich athlete. People are shitty sometimes and will wish ill will on one another for jealous reasons. The courts punished Vick for his crimes, but now people like bob are trying to punish him for being who he is and are using his crime as a scapegoat

 

[beema]

Here here bob!
Completely agree with your stance. It makes me happy that you are so passionate about this. Too many people seem to discount it because it was "just dogs." Vick is a sick, disturbed creep, and no less so than someone who tortures and kills people (that is, after all, the next logical step in that progression). I think he should be denied any possible fame or recognition of any sort for his behavior and shunned by society.

 

[mega48man]

all right bob, this episode had a valid point about animal abuse, but i'm beginning to see you cross the line in some places. i also agree that micheal vick shouldn't be on the front cover, but every year is a new installment because yes, there is a giant roster update and then there are also refinements in the game's mechanics, graphics, and style.

it stimulates the economy because people spend 50$ every year which helps cycle the money, graphics always look nicer even if just by a little bit, gameplay mechanics have taken some changes from what i have seen (one installment made it extremely easy for beginners to learn how to play the game and football in general, which i think is a great way to get kids like me off our asses), and finally, i love to see the cover art on all of the EA sports boxes. as a graphic design artist, i love to see what techniques and style they use.

last year, i loved the FIFA '10 box cover, looked fantastic, and i can't wait to see what '12 is gonna look like. not only that, it's impossible for someone like a career path like mine to get in to a job in art, so thank GOD yearly installments give an opportunity for graphic design artists like me soon to be.

i'm jake eagle
and THAT's the big picture
(because i actually focused on a wide range of topics with their own supporting arguements instead of ripping on a guy with a better job than me, thus making it a big picture)

 

[Exo-Mike]

I'm from England so I dont really get the NFL series but I have a dog and in that respect I don't disagree with a thing that was said in this video.

I'm glad that there are other people out there who feel the same way I do about animal cruelty (bucket of acid and a slow decent as punishment!)

 

[370999]

I can't tell what's worse, the Vick haters that have way too much respect for animals, or the counterarguement that clearly places equally exaggerated worth on human life.

Both animals are overpopulated introduced species.

If you happen to be carrying a firearm and find a human with a knife locked in combat with the bengal tiger, what would you shoot?

I would hope most people would shoot the human, as the tiger is more rare and valuable.

Now of course selfishness is to be expected and even fully permitted, such that if it was a friend or loved one in a struggle with a tiger (or someone that owed you money) killing the tiger would be justified. That's just relativism at work. There is no valid arguement, however, that humans hold more intrinsic worth than any other species. Unrelated humans are more often a competitor for food an resources than any kind of aid to their fellow humans. Would I kill my own property (dog) if it would have stopped the Rawanda Genocide, the Holocaust, or worldwide starvation? Of course not.

I do hope you are joking. The concept of rarity and value are human concept. Until we meet another sentient species we are pretty much the bee's knees. I would gladly shoot my dog to avoid the rwandan gencoide, it's a dog.

Does anyone else feel that people have taken the whole "the only worse thing would be the holocaust" as being a joke on Bob's behalf. At least I hope so.

I'm Irish so I am wholly ignorant on this issue but surely if the lad does something illegal (which most people have no doubt this should be) he should go to jail. Which he did. And to get on the EA thingy all you have to do is to get the most votes. Which he might. I don't see the issue here, they aren't voting for him as a moral person but as a sportsman. He could be a klansman but as long as he played good weird american football and people voted for him then he gets the box.

 

[Dr Jones]

Mike Vick can do whatever he wants to dogs under his charge and care.

Oh, hey yeah. That totally justifies the toture and stuff.. /sarcasm

 

[Dr Jones]

If you happen to be carrying a firearm and find a human with a knife locked in combat with the bengal tiger, what would you shoot?

I would hope most people would shoot the human, as the tiger is more rare and valuable.

Yeah, except for that that comparison is off the charts unrelated.. It just doesen't make sense, you pass this off as being a test if you're either pro Vick or aginst (y'know PETA/other), even though it makes no sense at all. I mean.. Just.. Really?

 

[Dr Jones]

I quote: "It's just a dog."

There are worse things you can do. Bob is overreacting like a whiny schizz.

It's not that it was a dog or not, that can be relatively ignored. The point is the ************ beat them to death and tortured them. For fun. I think that in a case like that the "It's just an animal, dude" doesen't really hold up. Behaviour like that to any living being truly shows that the person commiting it is mentally unstable. (unless done for neccessary reasons.)

 

[feeqmatic]

Wow, i think you backfired bob...

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/116/1162413p1.html

this will not end well for EA, but they get what they deserve for being idiots. Im almost tempted to vote for vick, maybe it will help me get NFL 2K back.