The Big Picture: Mutants and Masses

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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animehermit said:
Not familiar with Dallas so i won't comment on it.
Dallas had a whole season retconned to a dream because of fan outcry over the death of a character.

Also, you ARE wrong about Holmes, the post-Reichenbach falls material with one exception takes place after that event chronologically. The argument of it being his choice doesn't change the huge reader outcry, or the fact that there's a strong chance this influenced his decision.

If Bioware changes the ending, it will be of their own choice, as was the case with Dallas. And so did Arthur Conan Doyle, whether or not the fans were outraged.

Edited to fix two sentences I somehow merged.

But to put a more specific end to this post, all such retcons are the end result of choice. And people didn't complain that bringing Sherlock back from the dead or the Dallas "Dream Season" or accuse people of setting back the media.
 

internetzealot1

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"...or a videogame might end in a way you don't like very much."
You must not really know much about this. Its not just an ending that some people don't like - its an ending that comes as close as possible to being objectively bad. If you need an explanation, look at Seamus Young's blog. He's got a pretty thorough explanation that even people who haven't played the game can understand.
 

jklinders

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Actually Bob, the reason we can't have nice things is because some folks like Casey Hudson can't put some decent effort into wrapping up his three volume trilogy in a way that makes a modicum of sense. At the end of the game choice did not matter and no resolution was granted the player. This was not due to some vaguely defined artistic integrity, which as others have mentioned is becoming a shield against criticism. It's because they did not put the effort or money into making it coherent. It breaks continuity in too many ways and introduces without any foreshadowing at all a key character in the last 5 minutes. You. Just. Don't. Do. That. Even the Greeks would have thought that this was going too far and they invented the bloody Deus Ex Machina. An ending to the third game of a trilogy like the one Mass effect has is like eating a superb 3 course meal. Everything about it was wonderfully done and after dessert you decide to have a coffee to just let the dessert settle in. You take a sip of the coffee and find that it is actually piss. That is what the ending of Mass Effect 3 is. Would you be upset?

I refuse to get behind a lot of the malarkey associated with the fan rage but saying that artistic integrity is some kind of impervious bastion is just plain idiotic. If they can explain it, and fix the numerous continuity errors then fine. Otherwise I'll live.
 

Warachia

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bahumat42 said:
Warachia said:
bahumat42 said:
All very good points
but its not false advertising because there are more than just the a b c choices.
As for "wrapping up all the important stuff" or whatever the damn quote was, surely you can see that on anything this scope its impossible to tie up all threads. So thats again down to personal opinion on what tied up is.

Theres was different than yours. Marketers are hired to embellish things, thats their job if you or anyone else for that matter got too bought in, thats your fault for not being a responsible consumer.

The fact of the matter is you all lined up and bought day 1 ignoring needs for reviews and such things, this is the downside to doing that. Again take responsibility for your own actions.
Except there aren't more than 3 choices, you make one of three choices, and watch what happens, the makers of the game decided to cut it up slightly, and only paste some of it over certain choices, then they claim the game has 17 endings or whatever, and honestly, I can live with that, what I can't accept from them is when you can find interviews before this came out talking about the different kinds of endings you will get, that according to them at the time, were in the game, only to buy the game yourself and find that they aren't there. That is lying, not embellishing, and that review thing falls completely flat, obviously reviews aren't going to talk about the ending, and who would wait around long enough before buying the game to read a plot synopsis and spoil everything for themselves?

Also before you reply I'd highly recommend you watch this video from a guy who explains in far better detail why the ending(s) are bad without any fan boy BS that was never there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4&feature=g-all-u&context=G2d94660FAAAAAAAAQAA
A good reviewer can tell you something sucks without spoiling it. Sure you have to trust his opinion on the matter, but if you dont trust the opinion of the guy you shouldn't read it in the first place.

And yes the endings aren't all massively different. But i'd arGUe that'S a constraint of wanting to have all those choices, none of them could hope to shine as good as one singular thread could of.
Yes, a single ending would probably be much better than several different endings as it almost always is and it would work, IF this was not a series based entirely around player choices, IF they didn't keep hammering out that your choices have several different consequences and IF they decided from the start to do a single ending rather than hammer one out at the last minute (which I don't know for certain but it really feels like it), but this series is about choices, which as the video mentions, means they really should have (at the very least) put more work into the endings to at least give us some closure on what happened.

Although I do agree with your point that a good reviewer can tell you that an ending is terrible without spoilers, which is what the reviewer I linked to does, although for the most part, you have no idea how terrible an ending is without finding out exactly what it is or experiencing it.
 

Therumancer

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RaikuFA said:
370999 said:
RaikuFA said:
370999 said:
So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.
Considering people are demanding donations back, making death threats and making BBB complaints over it, hes a bit justified. Hes just saying those above three make all fans of something look bad.
That is an extreme fringe and accompanies anything which is emotional. Bob is not a man to chide others for childish outbursts, remember the whole comparison between the Transformers movies and his dogs skeleton being dug out, covered in shit and views of it sold? I do.

Also he mentions the FTC without paying any attention to why that happened. That is not about the ending being bad, that is about Bioware outright lying in interviews. They said it wouldn't be an ABC affair and it was.
OK? And? I was promised a demo of MML3 and the sales of said demo would determine if it was gonna be cancelled or not. It got canceled before the demo was released and I can't make a BBB complaint over it cause it will be thrown out, just like your ME3 complaints.

Jaebird said:
Geez. Haven't seen this much of an outcry over fictional media since... Lost?
And it wasn't even this bad.

Well, you could make a BBB complaint, The Better Business Bureau is a private consumer watch organization with a lot of influance. Whether they would choose to pursue it and promote them on it's blacklist, and put pressure on the company as they sometimes do is debatable. All told being private the BBB can wind up doing some odd things... and depending on the roll of the dice they might actually represent someone over that demo thing... which is neither here nor there.

What we're looking at with EA/Bioware is the FTC.. Federal Trade Comission. The question here comes down to wheher EA/Bioware made promises and then intentionally chose not to keep them. With the Demo thing it could be argued that they never had the funding to consider making the game or any of a number of other situations. In the end there really isn't a product being judged, but rather the question of whether one was ever going to be created. With "Mass Effect 3" there is a product, and there are statements made by members of the Dev team including managers and writers, along with those interviews taken from that $3 ending app that shows that EA/Bioware deliberatly made promises and then chose not to keep them.

In the end a lot comes down to whether or not your going to find lawyers willing to take a case before the FTC or into civil court. I could be wrong but "Mass Effect 3" seems to be going to both. Lawyers have their own careers to worry about and generally won't take cases they have no chance of winning as it can affect their overall ratings (win/loss rate on cases) and so on. The FTC complaints and such here are noteworthy both because fans are angry enough to spend the money, and because there are lawyers willing to take the case, which means that they expect to be able to win it during a hearing.... and that says a lot all on it's own. See if this was just a case of some people yelling "lawsuit" in forums it wouldn't even be noteworthy, that happens all the time. This one is noteworthy because it's apparently actually been filed as I understand things... which means it's actually going to happen this time, real lawyers are apparently taking real money to make this a real case. Agree or not, this means it's a real issue. Any claims about how ridiculous it sounds, or other "ridiculous" cases that might be made are irrelevent at this point. In the end most of those "analogies" to what is going on fall apart because you couldn't get the funding or a lawyer willing to stake themselves on the case.

At least that's how I understand things.


As far as "Lost" goes, understand that with "Lost" there was no real investment on the part of the people watching it. "Lost" was free, all you have to do was subject yourself to commercials. With "Mass Effect 3" people have invested $60 in this product, and in many cases over $200 in the series (well over counting DLC, collector's editions, etc...). This means there is a larger, direct stake.

A better analogy than lost would be movies that dissatisfy viewers, in cases where everyone winds up hating a movie crowds of people tend to demand... and received, their money back. A theater giving a single customer a refund for not liking something is minimal, but if a full theater of people come banging on the manager's door, it happens. This is the equivilent of pissing everyone off in a theater, except nobody is getting a refund. A defense of EA/Bioware could be made if they were offering to buy back all of the Mass Effect merchandise they sold up until this point at the full retail value... sort of like a ticket refund, but for obvious reasons that's not happening.

One also must remember that "Lost" and other media with bad endings, also did not have the producers running around with a cash register trying to hit them up for money to see the finale. Not only does the ME3 ending suck, it's also one where it's impossible to see the entire thing just by playing the campaign. The degree to which you see the craptastic ending is influanced by "War Assets" of which there are not enough in the game to see all the options. Right now the only way to see those endings is to raise your "readiness rating" by playing the multiplayer mode, which is an intentionally frustrating grind fest, that happens to include a "pay to win" function where you can buy weapon packs to make it less of a frustrating grind fest... something targeted at those who might want to see the ending but have no real tolerance for the multiplayer or want to potentially put dozens of hours into it. EA/Bioware are also in a position where they can add more War Assets via DLC to make the ending an incentive to buy the DLC, and of course they planned to sell an app called "Mass Effect: Infiltrator" or something like that which would provide another way of gaining the needed points to see all of the ending.

Basically, Bioware/EA charges you $60 for a game with a crappy ending, but then tries to get you to pay money to fully experience that crappy ending. This is a point people overlook in this entire equasion... it's more than people just hating the ending, it's a matter of people hating the way this entire thing was motivated by trying to gouge money out of people... and that's beyond sacrificing the integrity of the triology for franchise purposes (which is also a factor... contributing to why the ending is such a mess, and why EA/Bioware wanted people to be talking about it... they aren't concerend with wrapping it up like promised, they want it to effectiely be a giant advertisement for the NEXT game... a cliffhanger or sorts added to what should be the end of the story... I have no issue with sequels, but feel they really needed to tie this game up as they promised. I bought a trilogy, end the story in chapter 3. Do another trilogy in the same universe later if you want, but don't turn the trilogy's end into a bloody marketing ploy).
 

zinho73

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bahumat42 said:
Nergy said:
bahumat42 said:
All very good points
but its not false advertising because there are more than just the a b c choices.
As for "wrapping up all the important stuff" or whatever the damn quote was, surely you can see that on anything this scope its impossible to tie up all threads. So thats again down to personal opinion on what tied up is.

Theres was different than yours. Marketers are hired to embellish things, thats their job if you or anyone else for that matter got too bought in, thats your fault for not being a responsible consumer.

The fact of the matter is you all lined up and bought day 1 ignoring needs for reviews and such things, this is the downside to doing that. Again take responsibility for your own actions.
I haven't played any of the mass effect games myself, but i think what they mean is that the series had plot points the series failed to address in the ending/later part of the game (which they promised to do)

I don't think it's fair to blame us, considering they're the ones who embellished. People trust Bioware enough because they have given a lot of people reason to trust them. Instead of saying "that's just the way marketing is". Wouldn't it be better to tell them that we don't like being lied to, and tell them that in future they should avoid such practices?.

Your third paragraph could be given the same response as above. ME and ME2 were very well received and people trusted Bioware enough to put a shiny button on the series with ME3. That didn't happen and after spending over $100 and having a lot of emotional investment in the story, it's not hard to see why some fans might feel a bit angry when Bioware doesn't follow through what they promised.
Marketers have always and will always be out to do that, its kind of in the role, im surprised that anyone over 18 wouldn't understand that. You can blame them all you want their just doing their job to maximise sales.

Morally and ethically it may be wrong but if we are going to be throwing those sticks around then go chase up big pharma, their doing far worse than ea in this regard.

Its really saddening that this is the only kind of thing our subculture does that gets media attention and its showing us in such a bad light.

I can only re-iterate that being displeased at the endings fine, but the way people are handling it definitely isn't. Write an angry letter or email. Vow to never by a ME, bioware or ea game again. Because all it looks like to the outside world is people kicking and screaming because they couldn't have their way.
Yeah, some comapnies do it worse, but Bioware got caught. I say let them squirm a little.

Actually, we are only being put in a bad light by the gaming press. Other media are being much more forgiving to the fans and in some cases clearly pointing out that Bioware must have done something really wrong.
 

Da Joz

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Wow people love to complain. Just let it go, get on with your lives. Maybe do something constructive?
 

Therumancer

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bahumat42 said:
Well if thats the message you wanted them to get your going to be disappointed. What people should of done was paid attention and seen what was going on, people knew these things were coming and smart people boycotted it (ala totalbiscuit) i would include myself in that but honestly i just hate how those games play and refused to play them again. The reason why thats not the message the industry will get is becaus theres no unison in your camp

some people want a happy ending
some people want free shit to clear things up
other people are demanding their money back

with the massive spread of opinions no real singular message can be got accross other than "unhappy people are getting angry".

What people should have done (and as a fact probably wont ever do) was not buy the actual thing, thats our right, thats proving what is good and isn't.

Short of the game not working once that money is paid their responsibilities to you have ended.
I disagree, your correct in terms of things like the Day #1 DLC, and how they were dumbing down the game into a shooter. As far as the quality of the ending, them not keeping their promises, and the exact fashion in which it was monetized? No, I don't think people could have seen that coming which is why there is this kind of backlash. I follow this kind of thing fairly intently, and to be honest I didn't know exactly how that war asset thing was going to work or how they were going to get you to pay for the ending. What's more, having listened to the developers I was expecting a much differant ending that actually accomplished what they set out. I was fulyl prepard not to worship the ending, but I did not expect an ending that was going be that craptastic and piss this many people off. While I do not think the ending is as bad as many other people do, it is pretty terrible.

I DID know they were planning on turning "Mass Effect" into a franchise, but I did not feel that this nessicarly meant having to sell out the ending here. There is no reason why they had to do an ending like this to optimized franchise potential, in order to have a franchise. Mass Effect could have a complete storyline and happy/appropriate conclusion to the trilogy, and still see other games produced in the same universe.

The voices are united and quite clear on EA/Bioware going too far, and that this will not be tolerated. The division over the ending isn't quite that extreme. In general the free stuff/happy ending crowd overlap, the basic demand being that EA/Bioware expand/fix the game and provide the DLC for free as opposed to making people pay more for them to fix the ending due to their screw up. Demanding a refund is also reasonable as an alternative to this, and really I think half the problem with the game industry right now is that you can't return software you wind up being unhappy with like other products.

You ARE correct that the response could be better, but this is the first time we've seen this kind of a backlash, and the game industry to run full tilt into a wall. It's not like fans are coordinated and have any kind of consumer advocacy. Truthfully though, if the industry manages to keep slotting people off with it's greed, you probably will see the fans gradually become more organized in this kind of thing. You can't expect a lot from the first rally of it's kind on this scale. Simply the fact that it happened is in of itself a powerful message.
 

Blatherscythe

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Taunta said:
Blatherscythe said:
Even in his own Game-Overthinker show he stated he has not played the games, nor does he know what the endings are. THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM BOB! You lack context and investment and can easily stand on your damn soapbox and act as a superior spewing pretentious dribble.

So Bob, shut up, play the games, see the endings and then voice your opinion, otherwise your input is worthless on the matter.
You're missing the point. Whether or not he would like the ending doesn't matter. It's not about liking the ending, it's about crossing that boundary between creator and audience and feeling like you DESERVE a new ending.

That's what the entire segment about TMNT is about. He knows he's probably not gonna like the new treatment of it, but is he going to fly into a rage because this is not the movie that he is entitled to? No. The artist isn't here to please you.

There is a line between being displeased with the ending and feeling like you deserve something else.
The reason people hate ME3's ending is due to the ABC nature of the choice and the fact that the ending doesn't take any of your choices into consideration when the whole damn series makes a big deal about player choice.

In the previous game the ending was entirely in your control, how the suicide mission turned out depended on how much time you invested in the game. I don't mind Fallout 3's original ending because the purifier going critical was out of my control and I had to make a quick choice, I wasen't told to go collect the united forces of the factions to take back the purifier, the event was already made to play out. However bittersweet it was the epilouge wasen't vague artsy bullshit, it told me how my actions effected the wasteland and whether I was a prick or not. ME3 gives a vague, unsatisfiying epilouge that just served to confuse the hell out of people.

But one of the biggest reasons people dislike the ending is the stupidity behind it. The catalyst itself is an asspull. It uses insane troll logic to justify the horrors it subjects organic life to. After you've made your choice the mass relays blow up, which, as we saw in the Arrival DLC, destroys a solar system. Even if it didn't destroy the known universe all the fleets are stranded on Earth, so I guess they just starve to death.

ME3 gives no closure, an arbitrary ABC choice and takes a butcher knife to accepted canon.

Just take a look at this video to see why the ending sucks and should be changed.

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

Bob is talking out of his ass about a situation he knows nothing about.
 

stickmangrit

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Fwee said:
stickmangrit said:
are you in any way familliar with the indoctrination theory? i won't bore you with the details, but it's got quite a bit of evidence behind it and pretty much posits that BioWare and EA's plan was to
SELL US THE F^&*ING ENDING AS DLC.

and if this is true, what kind of precedent does that set? and where does that put folks like Bob who are valiantly flocking to defend the developers and publishers in theire experiment to see how incomplete a game they can sell for $60 before the fans burn down the headquarters?
I saw the entire lineup of releases this winter as one giant DLC content ransom. I saw titles that pretty much doubled it's original price with the amount of withheld features. And I responded the only way I knew would be effective:
I didn't buy any games. I didn't buy any DLC. If companies want to try to sell me half a game at full price then good luck to them. But they never forced me to give them money. And they never had a legal contract with a satisfaction guarantee. At least Amazon tried to offer money back on ME3 so upset fans could get most of their money back.
Sometimes something you love gets turned into shit, and it's usually done so by upper management trying to get more money. Don't buy any DLC. Don't buy new games. Rent, trade, borrow, steal, or pirate. Until the companies sell you what you want for a reasonable price they'll only laugh while they screw you.
well that's kindof the essential good that the whole TBME movement's done. if nothing else the desperate spinning and "wait and see what's in store" bullshit coming from BioWare simply adds creedence to the indoctrination DLC scenario, except now they're scared. they know if they prove this theory right by coming out with $10-20 DLC following the main thrust of the theory, establishing beyond doubt that they shipped an unfinished product rather than delay, and are now trying to sell us the rest of it, then what we're seeing now from the fandom is nothing compared to the shitstorm that will follow. we might actually get that DLC free out of BioWare wanting to remain a legitimate company.
 

Taunta

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Blatherscythe said:
Taunta said:
Blatherscythe said:
Even in his own Game-Overthinker show he stated he has not played the games, nor does he know what the endings are. THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM BOB! You lack context and investment and can easily stand on your damn soapbox and act as a superior spewing pretentious dribble.

So Bob, shut up, play the games, see the endings and then voice your opinion, otherwise your input is worthless on the matter.
You're missing the point. Whether or not he would like the ending doesn't matter. It's not about liking the ending, it's about crossing that boundary between creator and audience and feeling like you DESERVE a new ending.

That's what the entire segment about TMNT is about. He knows he's probably not gonna like the new treatment of it, but is he going to fly into a rage because this is not the movie that he is entitled to? No. The artist isn't here to please you.

There is a line between being displeased with the ending and feeling like you deserve something else.
The reason people hate ME3's ending is due to the ABC nature of the choice and the fact that the ending doesn't take any of your choices into consideration when the whole damn series makes a big deal about player choice.

In the previous game the ending was entirely in your control, how the suicide mission turned out depended on how much time you invested in the game. I don't mind Fallout 3's original ending because the purifier going critical was out of my control and I had to make a quick choice, I wasen't told to go collect the united forces of the factions to take back the purifier, the event was already made to play out. However bittersweet it was the epilouge wasen't vague artsy bullshit, it told me how my actions effected the wasteland and whether I was a prick or not. ME3 gives a vague, unsatisfiying epilouge that just served to confuse the hell out of people.

But one of the biggest reasons people dislike the ending is the stupidity behind it. The catalyst itself is an asspull. It uses insane troll logic to justify the horrors it subjects organic life to. After you've made your choice the mass relays blow up, which, as we saw in the Arrival DLC, destroys a solar system. Even if it didn't destroy the known universe all the fleets are stranded on Earth, so I guess they just starve to death.

ME3 gives no closure, an arbitrary ABC choice and takes a butcher knife to accepted canon.

Just take a look at this video to see why the ending sucks and should be changed.

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

Bob is talking out of his ass about a situation he knows nothing about.
Sigh. You should read my first post again. I know why people hate the ending. Everyone knows why people hate the ending. The issue is still not whether or not you should hate the ending.

You don't need knowledge of the ME3 canon to have an opinion on the idea that people think they deserve an ending that they like. If anything, his opinion is more valid because he's not emotionally invested in the franchise and he has an objective view of it.
 

anthony87

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lacktheknack said:
Frank_Sinatra_ said:
Bad move Bob, very, very, very, very bad move.

It's apparent that you really haven't researched into the whole Mass Effect 3 debacle, so be prepared to hear that the Mass Effect series is a special case, BioWare didn't deliver on ANY of their promises, and they pretty much slapped their own IP in the face in the last 5 minutes of their game.

Remember: BioWare has stated that their fans are equal creators in the story along with their actual writing staff.
I've researched it as much as I care to (which is more than normal), and this is what I've come up with:

<quote=All the reasoned debate about the ME3 ending>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'm sure there's things about "special case", half baked "NO PROMISES DELIVERED" anger, and hyperbole to go all around as well as "THEY KILLED THE IP" (it was supposed to end here, you know), but it was all drowned in the screaming.

So yes, excuse me if I'm flippant about the whole thing and don't take you guys seriously.
May I direct your attention towards this?</link?

I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just like to show that there are legitimate reasons people are unhappy and it's more than just people going "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA".
 

retrochimp

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As a lifelong turtles fan (some of my earliest memories are Turtles related), I can still readily acknowledge that this franchise has made some serious missteps (The Next Mutation, The Christmas Special, TMNT III, et al) and thus I cannot find myself getting angry at this idea. For all we know, this is where Platinum Dunes turns around and starts making GOOD movies about our childhood icons.

The only thing that seriously troubles me is that Michael Bay proclaimed the new Turtles to be "tough, edgy, funny and completely lovable" which I'm willing to bet is exactly what he told producers about Skids and Mudflap.
 

Eric Morales

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If nothing else, I'm pleased that Moviebob cleansed all the bile from his system over twitter, I kind of dreaded clicking on this video because I expected to see five minutes of Bob attacking a straw man. I'm pleased that didn't happen.

I don't feel like my point of view is being well represented in the conversation. For starters,

I like BioWare, I would even go so far as to say I LOVE BioWare. If I had one wish it would be for a place on the BioWare writing staff. Well, that or to be married to Felicia Day... but I digress. The point is I love their work, hell, that's WHY I'd like to see the ending changed. I know they can do better. 95% of Mass Effect 3 PROVES they can do better. They have some of the best story writers in the industry under one roof and a fleshed out well realized universe for them to work with. If they want to retcon the ending I have no doubt that the potential exists for them to make one for the ages.

That brings me to the issue of entitlement. BioWare doesn't HAVE to change the ending. More power to them if they do but they don't really owe me a satisfying ending. It's the same way I feel that they don't OWE me the From the Ashes content. The bare bones ME3 that I had on my first playthrough was a complete experience and for what its worth I got my money's worth, shit ending and all.

For some perspective, lets also remember the Green Lantern protest group Hal's Emerald Action Team which was WAY more ridiculous than Retake Mass Effect (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3536-Going-Green-Part-II for a refresher) ultimately managed to get what they wanted and the result actually ended up making the Green Lantern mythos slightly less ridiculous.

I can't be alone in thinking like this, can I? If I understand correctly BioWare's working on a new ending and who knows what will come of that? Maybe it'll be a slimy burst of fan service, maybe it'll be one for the ages or maybe it'll just be the same thing with a yellow explosion.
 

Daemonate

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Lots of really badly prosecuted arguments there, Bob. "...if these are the worst disappointments in your life..." Oh, come on. They may not be the worst, but they still suck - and unlike the others, I have to *pay* for this one. This has less to do with fan ownership and more to do with dishonesty.

Very few people claimed that Lucas had no 'right' to do what he did, or that he should remake the prequels in the fans' own image.
But then Lucas didn't promise that he would not make a three-choice, nub-ending where your previous decisions have no impact, and then do *exactly* that. This is not 'fan backlash'. This is consumer outrage. We were promised features, many of us paid money because of that promise, and it was not there.

Artistic choice is fine, false advertising and reaping the financial benefits thereof are not OK.
The fact that the ME3 endings also defied all logic and betrayed the themes of the series to date is offensive, but in the end, just disappointing. Lying about inclusion of features is not just disappointing, it's possibly illegal. Bioware needed to keep their mouths shut if they were uncertain about delivering on their promises.
 

TornadoADV

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Patronized by somebody who knows nothing about what's going on and is more then happy to feed into the gamer stereotype about being entitled and bratty. God forbid me as a consumer has the right to hold a company to some sort of standard.
 

Clive Howlitzer

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370999 said:
So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.
Is anyone really that surprised? This IS Movie Bob we are talking about here.
 

brodie21

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Apr 6, 2009
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I don't think I OWN ME3, I think that the last five minutes of the game ruined the entire thing. I dont want a happy ending, all I want is somebody to explain what the fuck went on. Rule number one of literary writing is you dont fucking introduce a godlike character in the last five minutes! That isnt a twist, that is shitty writing! How can Bioware go from stellar writing to shit in five minutes? And they wont even get a definite answer. that is why there is so much stuff going on. They spent weeks offering noncommittal replies which gave everyone more time to organize and get involved. If they had said that that is the ending and left it at that most of the outcry would go away. Make a decision and stick to it.

This is one of the few times I disagree with Bob. Also the FTC complaint was because Bioware ADVERTISED many separate and distinct endings and we only got 3 different color explosions.