The Big Picture: Mutants and Masses

[Clive Howlitzer]

So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.

Is anyone really that surprised? This IS Movie Bob we are talking about here.

 

[brodie21]

I don't think I OWN ME3, I think that the last five minutes of the game ruined the entire thing. I dont want a happy ending, all I want is somebody to explain what the fuck went on. Rule number one of literary writing is you dont fucking introduce a godlike character in the last five minutes! That isnt a twist, that is shitty writing! How can Bioware go from stellar writing to shit in five minutes? And they wont even get a definite answer. that is why there is so much stuff going on. They spent weeks offering noncommittal replies which gave everyone more time to organize and get involved. If they had said that that is the ending and left it at that most of the outcry would go away. Make a decision and stick to it.

This is one of the few times I disagree with Bob. Also the FTC complaint was because Bioware ADVERTISED many separate and distinct endings and we only got 3 different color explosions.

 

[Mirrorknight]

1. Bitching and whining about bitching and whining accomplishes nothing except cause more bitching and whining. Want to stop the cycle? Ignore it.

2. The FTC complaint was not about the quality of the ending, and more to do with statements made not even a month prior to ME3's release that the ending would be extremely varied and not be a A, B, or C ending (which it was), and that decisions made during the series would have a profound impact on the ending (which it doesn't). Is it enough to actually warrant filing a complaint? Sure. Filing a complaint means nothing. I'm sure the FTC gets more frivolous complaints then this. Is it actually false advertising? Well, that's for the FTC to decide.

3. I am for an ending change (or even clarification on the current one). I haven't really raged about it, but I fully support anyone that does. However, I fully support BioWare's decision on whatever they decide to do. Sorry, but this isn't the work of some guy in garage that puts it out on the net as freeware. While video games can be art, the moment it is put for sale, it is also a product. Since it's art, BioWare has all the right in the world to make the ending however they want. However, since it's a product, the consumer has all the right in the world to ***** about it and ask for it to change. Since it is art, BioWare can be free to completely ignore the consumer, say it is what it is, deal. The consumer then has all the right in the world to take their business elsewhere.

Long story short, in the end, BioWare is a business. This situation will resolve itself, one way or another.

4. Fan bitching does accomplish things. How many movies have been made with alternate endings in the DVD release because fans disliked the ending? I mean, they completely re-edited Highlander 2 to remove any references to (stupid) aliens because of fan bitching. Hell, I shouldn't have to even point out Hal Jordan. Yes, it was the writer's decision to do it, but I'm sure the hell he had the fan's input in mind when he decided to bring him back.

5. What if the ending was rushed? I'm sure Bob can rattle of a shortlist of movies/comics/books ect. that were torpedoed not by bad writing decisions, but because their corporate overlords (in this case, EA) demanded a finished product, and the artists couldn't truly get give the attention they wanted to? Oh sure, they'll swear up and down that's the way it was supposed to be when it happens, but 5, 10, 20 years down the road (when danger of being sued has tapered off to acceptable levels), they come out and say, "Yeah, we were told to finish it or else, so that's the ending that got put in."

Now, there's no proof that this is what happened to Mass Effect 3 (just EA's douchebaggery level making it a distinct possibility), but if it is, the consumer backlash might provide something that I'm sure movie writers would love. The opportunity to actually get the damn ending they wanted made.

If -that's- the case, I think it's absolutely fine that BioWare changes the ending.

 

[Reyalsfeihc]

Art is nothing without the viewer/player/beholder. After all, that's why it's said that art is in the eye of the beholder. If you simply look at a painting or a drawing or a film, it is nothing but moving images and colors and sounds. It is the viewer who gives meaning to those scenes, and the words, and who determines the emotions portrayed.

Simply put, art is nothing without the person seeing it.

 

[The Random One]

Brilliantly written, Bob. I wish you had tackled the ME thing with all your mighty - I for one think it'd be a worthy use of you funny Scout voice powerful JFK-like angry accent. Those people don't realize that their pitiful flailing will be used against them by producers the next time a dev proposes anything that isn't perfectly by the book.

As for TMNT, I don't understand how your disappointment at Bay should go any further than 'shit, Bay is involved with this'. That should be your cue to tune out and assume the worst. Plus, the version of TMNT that got famous is a silly dumbing down of the original gritty anyway.

 

[Stalydan]

I have said it before and I will say it again: What was so bad about the ME3 ending?

Lack of closure and elements that conflict with those already established in the rest of the game and series overall. They were so many parts of the ending that could be picked apart by saying "Wait, did I disprove that before?" and then having such a vague epilogue that doesn't really give you reasons for why a lot of the stuff you're seeing is happening.

Disregarding the fact there is no option to refuse, it's really weird that nobody pulled the writer of it over it to say "The ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game". Then again, hearing the rumors about the ending generated by one of the writers, it sounds a lot like Casey Hudson didn't talk about the planned ending much.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

So wait...does this mean we shouldn't send Michael Bay a cupcake either? What about a muffin basket? I think its too early to really hate the TMNT movie yet and honestly I didn't know what Krang's race were known as until this episode of Big Picture. It would be cool if the Ooze was from space and Krang was the main bad guy in the movie but I think it would be better if Marvel bought the TMNT rights and we had a Daredevil cameo in the next TMNT movie or vice-versa.

As for Mass Effect 3, are people really still bitching about the ending 3 weeks later? Silent Hill Downpour, Ninja Gaiden 3 and, a slew of other games have come out since. I haven't been given any flak for buying Kid Icarus on day one for God's sake! I liked the demo for Mass Effect 3, I liked Mass Effect 2 and, I know I'll like the full version of Mass Effect 3. Is it really worth bitching about the last 5 minutes of the game when the other dozens of hours are that great? There wasn't this much hate and bile for Final Fantasy XIII even though it was the polar opposite (hours upon hours of tedious garbage followed by Grand Pulse)

 

[him over there]

So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.

Is anyone really that surprised? This IS Movie Bob we are talking about here.

Doesn't understand the difference between games and movies, how about doesn't understand games to start with?

 

[Andros83]

I like Bob when he simply gives insight about films or other pop culture but when he tries his holier than thou pattern schtick,see the mindnumbingly awful episode of the big picture where he discusses PC gaming,a topic he clearly has no understanding in, then he comes of as a complete fool

We have a right as consumers to ***** and moan about a shit or,even better,a unfinished product.
You said it yourself,you haven't played the games and havent witnessed THAT ending
You dropped the ball here Bob.plain and simple.

And because this blog easily covers all of the topics i have to say on the subject and i feel being an annoying ****
Ill just leave this here
http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/

 

[Stalydan]

REALLY BOB, REALLY? *Cough* Going Green Part 2 *cough*

Oh yeah, I had a Twitter debate/argument with Grey Carter (one of the critical miss guys) and pretty much ending with HEAT because, if nothing else, that's the closest thing that Bob has covered to Retake Mass Effect. And I don't remember him saying it was a bad thing. HEAT is to comics as Retake Mass Effect is to games. It's hard to support one without supporting the other as they practically stand for the same things.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

I have said it before and I will say it again: What was so bad about the ME3 ending?

Lack of closure and elements that conflict with those already established in the rest of the game and series overall. They were so many parts of the ending that could be picked apart by saying "Wait, did I disprove that before?" and then having such a vague epilogue that doesn't really give you reasons for why a lot of the stuff you're seeing is happening.

But that alone isn't really deserving of the insane amount of rage generated by this. Sure, it's got a broad and somewhat undefined ending, but, as it was clear well before the game was shipped, there are more Mass Effect games coming. Covering every [surviving] companion's ending would be much more clunky and expository in a way that doesn't add to the narrative or story whatsoever.

Did you ever watch the end of Children of Man? The ending is about as vague and as non-conclusive you can get for a movie with a rich lore and narrative behind it, but it worked because it relied on the audience to fill in the details (was he dead? What was the ship? What happened to the rest of the world, etc.).

Disregarding the fact there is no option to refuse, it's really weird that nobody pulled the writer of it over it to say "The ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game". Then again, hearing the rumors about the ending generated by one of the writers, it sounds a lot like Casey Hudson didn't talk about the planned ending much.

Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers. It may not be the ending you wanted, but it was fairly clear throughout the game, in my opinion, that the Crucible was going to be that kind of McGuffan.

The question that results always when you complain about an ending is this: how would you have ended it? It's one thing to complain, but how do you end a narrative arch where the entire last game is a third act? You realize the moment that you hit that first dream that Shepard is not walking away from this one, so how do you end her life in a way that brings closure to her story (not necessarily the story of the galaxy as a whole)?

 

[penguindude42]

I find it so ironic that Bob's generation is complaining about change in TMNT when their version was watered down, butchered, and badly animated. And the TMNT movie was tied to the 2003 cartoon (the better one), not the other movies.

Pretty much this. And Mass Effect is a terrible series due to being produced by a Bioware ravaged by EA, rather than by one working with Sega or by an independent one. #LiberateBioware

 

[camazotz]

I am speechless...kudos to Movie Bob, but holy cow, it's like he laid it all out and then everyone on the Escapist (and that facebook thingy) went ahead and decided to carry out a live demonstration of crazed, maniacal fans at work.

Wow.

(And Yes I'm a huge Mass Effect Fan. Couldn't care so much for the turtles though, being, well, over age 13 and all).

 

[ThunderCavalier]

Personally, I think Bob is in the right.

Yes, BioWare said that they were going to make a dramatic, climatic, and finishing conclusion to the franchise.

Yes, they said that the fans were equal participants in the story's conclusion.

No, the ending did not live up to the hype, at all.

YES, I think all of you are being whiny bitches about it.

Get over it, people. I thought the ending was horrible, yes, but am I going to say that Mass Effect was ruined? No. Up until the last... say... twenty or so minutes, the entire trilogy is a deep exploration of humanity's venture into the stars, diplomatic relationships with vastly different alien races each with culture and moral standings causing inevitable conflicts, the conglomeration of several different and varying backstories into one big, diverse, and blood-bound squad, and the fact of the matter that you have to decide what is 'Best for the Galaxy' without going 'Too Far'.

The ending sucked. Get over it. I still think Mass Effect is one of the greatest sci-fi trilogies ever. It juat had its Prequel Trilogy moment at the ending.

 

[Klitch]

Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers.

Spoiler

My Shepard sure as hell would have walked away if he was allowed to. Each of the three options resulted in the explosion of every mass relay in the galaxy. Seeing as the ME2 Arrival DLC made it perfectly clear that an exploding mass relay has enough force to obliterate a star system, Shephard's decision has the unfortunate result of DESTROYING THE ENTIRE GALAXY. Maybe there is some BS reason why this isn't the case, but since Bioware gave us no explanation, we have to assume past information still holds true and past information says that Shepard just killed more people than the Reapers could ever hope to.

So once the Star Child told me the options, I figured that allowing the Reaper cycle to continue was actually the GOOD option. It'd be better that all advanced organic life be destroyed every 50,000 years than all life (organic and synthetic) be destroyed permanently.

The Star Child created the synthetic Reapers to destroy organic life so that organic life couldn't create synthetic life which would destroy organic life. Meanwhile, I plan to save organic life from the synthetic Reapers by destroying every living thing in the entire galaxy. That's JRPG villian-type logic there.

 

[1337mokro]

This was quite a narrow big picture wasn't it?

Simply equating the ME3 ending fuss (yes some people are taking this to ridiculous lengths) to a possible, slightly weird change to a nostalgic tv show (few fans actually knew about the comics).

First of all. There is no audience in gaming. There are only players. People actively engaged in the story of the game. When the game slaps you on the wrists and tells you 'NO! That's not how I want it to go' players will feel railroaded and connived because they are basically moving along a puppet set to a specific track.

This is why MANY point and click adventures failed. Why can't I use the tree branch instead of the stick for this puzzle? Because the game says so.

Same with the ME3 ending. Why are there only 3 options? Where are the 17 different endings (it should be illegal to change 3 seconds of footage and call it another ending)? What happened to the "Your ending will be unique and not just an A, B or C decision" that the dev team stated in numerous interviews?

Now about the turtles. That sort of rage is less reasonable. No one paid money for the movie yet, no one has spent the better part of 50 hours playing the previous two games and there really is nothing invested in the TMNT movie.

If they make them aliens. They make them aliens. I'll complain about it if the movie is good, but I'll leave entertained, if it sucks I'll have great fun watching many reviews mocking it and will have only lost 9$. If you end a 3 game series (150$ in total and 68 hours of gameplay) with an A, B, C decision which goes counter to what was promised by the dev team, leaves many plotholes and basically tells you to BUY DLC for the real ending.

People will be pissed.

Two completely different things, both in value, time invested, medium and type of rage. One is based on pure speculation, the other is based on the fact that when people spent 50$ on the last instalment of a trilogy they basically got told "Thanks for the money, give us some more if you want it to stop sucking".

Why did no one get pissed at Human Revolutions A,B,C ending? Because no one was promised or told differently and expectations were lower because of the possible reboot virus infection (which still did a number on HR, but you could ignore the pockmarks). ME fans were promised something. They did not get what was promised. Only to be exploited at a later date for more money.

I think the Turtles thing doesn't really measure up to that.

 

[planet.tyler]

Well said Bob! Fanboys who have the nerve to state that IP being handled in way they don't approve of has ruined their life need to get a grip. If they can see crap like this a problem then they clearly have no real problems in life, people who do have real problems don't have time to waste on crap like this and as bill would say real issues don't get discussed because of this horse shit. just grow up, gaming will never be taken as srs business if gamers are being misrepresented by a vocal minority that throws an online tantrum every time they don't get their way. Having a ***** about a bad game is one thing, demanding developers to change products is on the lvl of a toddler throwing a tantrum in the supermarket.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Can we just establish a new rule here? If you have no idea why fans are upset then you have no right to criticize them for being upset.

If anyone here understood that then this wouldn't even be an issue.

not true
i've been read into the major reasons this thing is happening, and i still think 'the retake' thing has gone to far.

You sure? The 'retakers' aren't really as absurdly over-zealous and disrespectful as you might think. We have legitimate reasons and most of us are very polite to Bioware and their staff.

yeah, to Bioware, cause they're the ones that can 'fix' the thing, every one else, 'if you don't agree, you are wrong'

but, more importantly. yeah, i know the reasons
they lied about
'choice' mattering (sorry i snicker at this, and think, 'well that life, get used to it' every time)
and number of endings,
and how the endings would play out
and 'closure' (which only really matters if they DON'T continue ME with Shepard).

still don't care, and still not on your side. why?
Child's Play. i can not forgive the use of a charity for something this fucking selfish, and i have even LESS forgiveness for the pieces of crap demanding money back from said charity cause it 'wont buy them a new ending'. its a shitty ending to a god damn video game, WORSE has happened in terms of us getting fucked over by devs and publishers, and this is what gets every body up in arms? an ending?!

what about the games we where promised, contributed to then had yanked away, or the ones we want being effectively held hostage by virtue of 'if this shit, no one asked for or really wanted doesn't sell well, we won't make the one you DO want', don't hear people getting pissed off for a full month over bullshit like that. no ... its an ENDING >.< ...

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers.

Spoiler

My Shepard sure as hell would have walked away if he was allowed to. Each of the three options resulted in the explosion of every mass relay in the galaxy. Seeing as the ME2 Arrival DLC made it perfectly clear that an exploding mass relay has enough force to obliterate a star system, Shephard's decision has the unfortunate result of DESTROYING THE ENTIRE GALAXY. Maybe there is some BS reason why this isn't the case, but since Bioware gave us no explanation, we have to assume past information still holds true and past information says that Shepard just killed more people than the Reapers could ever hope to.

So once the Star Child told me the options, I figured that allowing the Reaper cycle to continue was actually the GOOD option. It'd be better that all advanced organic life be destroyed every 50,000 years than all life (organic and synthetic) be destroyed permanently.

The Star Child created the synthetic Reapers to destroy organic life so that organic life couldn't create synthetic life which would destroy organic life. Meanwhile, I plan to save organic life from the synthetic Reapers by destroying every living thing in the entire galaxy. That's JRPG villian-type logic there.

Spoiler: Eh... kind of

1) The relays are only in a few dozen star systems, many of which are uninhabited. They may take out the system, but the other systems would pretty much be spared from destruction.

2) Just because the options would destroy the relays doesn't mean they would explode like in Arrival. It's kind of like the difference a nuclear bomb having a nuclear detonation (Arrival) and just having the bomb explode (which is different and can happen without detonation, as once happened in Spain a few decades ago; it also was my presumed result for the destruction of the relay system

 

[Griffolion]

I love it when Bob speaks my mind a million times more eloquently than I ever could do.