Gee... So let me get this straight... When I say "Ha! Ha! I just tore out your throat!" after I knife someone in Battlefield 3, it's almost as bad as saying I raped someone? I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Tearing out someone's throat with a big-ass knife is perfectly socially acceptable, you just better not make it into a sexual thing.Eri said:The only thing I disagree with is the rape thing. Saying I shouldn't use rape is sexist in itself. Men CAN BE RAPED. Both men and women can have valid feelings on the word rape, Don't try to imply that because I'm a man I should not use that word.
And this. This exactly. Murder is worse than rape, period.mrblakemiller said:I really want to dumb this down, because this is a point I'd really like to hit home with everyone who reads this. If you disagree with me and think the word "rape" should never appear on XBOX LIVE (for instance), look at these two sentences:
"Aw man, I just raped you!"
"Aw man, I just killed you!"
Take the criteria you would use to determine the first sentence is unacceptable and apply them to the second sentence. I submit that murdering someone is even worse than raping someone, but we usually don't seem to have a problem with the use of the word "kill" in a metaphorical sense. If we believe we can use a word for more than just its most stark and obvious meaning, then there is no reason to proscribe the use of the word "rape." Intelligent dialogue disagreeing with my judgment would be welcomed.
At what point was it said that men should not use that word? I don't remember this being gender specific.Eri said:The only thing I disagree with is the rape thing. Saying I shouldn't use rape is sexist in itself. Men CAN BE RAPED. Both men and women can have valid feelings on the word rape, Don't try to imply that because I'm a man I should not use that word.
And this. This exactly. Murder is worse than rape, period.mrblakemiller said:I really want to dumb this down, because this is a point I'd really like to hit home with everyone who reads this. If you disagree with me and think the word "rape" should never appear on XBOX LIVE (for instance), look at these two sentences:
"Aw man, I just raped you!"
"Aw man, I just killed you!"
Take the criteria you would use to determine the first sentence is unacceptable and apply them to the second sentence. I submit that murdering someone is even worse than raping someone, but we usually don't seem to have a problem with the use of the word "kill" in a metaphorical sense. If we believe we can use a word for more than just its most stark and obvious meaning, then there is no reason to proscribe the use of the word "rape." Intelligent dialogue disagreeing with my judgment would be welcomed.
It is simple, I may not agree with what you have to say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.him over there said:So you are saying that instead of being entitled to not be offended and kick people out we are all entitled to name call back those who name called us? Mutual Retaliation instead of proactive removal of those with almost seemingly universal unpopular or rude opinions? If so I think that I need to figure out how your brain works because I need to get in on it.thisbymaster said:The problem with going along with Bob's ideas is that it makes gaming an exclusive environment. Which is directly opposite of the idea of gaming as a whole. It is to be all inclusive, all ideas, all genders and all ideologies. Even if you don't agree with them, even if you don't like them. Their ideas are just as valid as yours. Everyone is free to disagree and argue, that is natural for human groups. Gaming isn't some country club that you can kick out the people you disagree with, you are free to reason with them but they are also free to ignore you. If you cannot handle this, then you are the one with the problem.
Good to know there are thick skinned people like you here. I always told myself that tolerance is a two way street. A person who is racist, a homophobe, misogynist or what have you can keep those thoughts, they can say those thoughts, they can make people angry with those thoughts and words. The second they hurt people (being offended is not hurting people by the way) you can punish them, but you can't punish them for thinking or saying them because then you're persecuting them for what they think.You don't get to stop them, you just get to make them mad back.thisbymaster said:It is simple, I may not agree with what you have to say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.him over there said:So you are saying that instead of being entitled to not be offended and kick people out we are all entitled to name call back those who name called us? Mutual Retaliation instead of proactive removal of those with almost seemingly universal unpopular or rude opinions? If so I think that I need to figure out how your brain works because I need to get in on it.thisbymaster said:The problem with going along with Bob's ideas is that it makes gaming an exclusive environment. Which is directly opposite of the idea of gaming as a whole. It is to be all inclusive, all ideas, all genders and all ideologies. Even if you don't agree with them, even if you don't like them. Their ideas are just as valid as yours. Everyone is free to disagree and argue, that is natural for human groups. Gaming isn't some country club that you can kick out the people you disagree with, you are free to reason with them but they are also free to ignore you. If you cannot handle this, then you are the one with the problem.
GaltarDude1138 said:I don't dig out this clip often, but when I do...
[youtube=whytAReStUQ&feature=related
...it's usually warranted.
OT: I agree on the position that "rape" should never be used as a synonym for "failure", but I feel it's pretty well-ingrained in not only the annoying 13-year old population, but also in older-age gamers as well. I don't know if we'll ever get rid of it.[/QUOTE]
I can't begin to describe how fitting that clip was (and it reminded me of one of the best movies ever).
As for the topic, I grew up in the Caribbean. While woman effectively don't play videogames in the island I grew up in, the gaming community was always happy to welcome anyone in and have a good time. So I haven't really come across this mentality that anyone, appart from a dribbler*, would fundamentally be of a lower playing class.
So yea, news to me and bullshit to his line of logic. Maybe he has a confined circle for which eliminating deliberately hurtful -isms would damage them, but the wider community I know, while having fun with bashing every (including oneself) would never intentionally aim to insult or hurt someone with -isms or anything else. Tense, determined players we were, cutthroat yep, in anyway inclined to consider someone inferior, never.
*We had a few slower learners in our circle of players but they were excillent people and did do well. But there was one, only one, who made a clear and definite effort to completely ignore anything we said, anything even a scantioned judge said, in favor of his opinion, even when he himself knew he was missing something. That my friends is what I call a dribbler, and while I always had fun with the slower people and had endles patience, I completely gave up on that one guy on the ground that if he didn't want to listen I was wasting my breath.
Pretty much 100 percent agreement on this. You may wish to argue that society as a whole has become more crass and more commonly uses extremely negative words, but that isn't necessarily sexism. Most people who use the term "rape" in the sense of colloquialism are just as likely to use it to describe themselves. For example, when forced to listen to music I find less then pleasurable, I may refer to it as "raping my ears". Is it a vulgar way to say that I dislike the music? Yes. Is it sexist? No. Could I be a little gentler about it? Sure, but where's the fun in that?illas said:I agreed with Bob right up to the point of using "rape" as a descriptor.
In the standard gaming scenario, "rape" is not being used to describe what literally happened. Typically, is being used hyperbolically to describe the incident eg: in the case of a vicious, unjustifiable, penetrative assault. Criticising it on this level seems odd, since we don't complain about using "killed", "owned", "butchered" or "destroyed" in such a circumstance (and if one is interpreting it literally, murder is equally - if not more - serious than rape).
Furthermore, rape is not an intrinsically female-victim issue either. I would go as far as to suggest that one guy saying "I raped you" to another guy to be more a homosexual threat characterized by desires of non-gender-specific sexual dominance than a product of male-on-female rape being glamorised.
mandalorian2298 said:Disclaimer: The first sentence or the post that follows it is not meant to be baiting. I am a professor of philosophy and this is a sincere statement of my feelings.
Some of the views expressed in this video hurt me on a deep emotional level. If it was just one man's views then I wouldn't give it much thought since mistakes happen and it's often very hard to see, admit and correct one's own mistake. However, the delusion in question seems to have spread over large portions of humanity, including some of our best and brightest (Movie Bob being an example for both), and I am starting to feel like a the last sane guy in the asylum.
The mistake I am talking about is:
Unlike saying proven objective truths (for example "Randomly attacking people on the street will not make you popular among the police officers."), expressing purely subjective opinions does not obligate other people to agree with you (for example, I believe that the answer to most of philosophical question can be found in one or more episodes of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', but I do not think that the fact Stanford didn't include that show in their curriculum makes Stanford's philosophy program inadequate.)
So far, I am sure that most of you are on board with me. However, for reasons that are entirely mysterious to me, most people believe that, if they wish it REALLY hard, their subjective opinions will MAGICALLY BECOME OBJECTIVE TRUTHS! Aalakazam!
For the betterment of the human race, I present you with a short list of things that DO NOT transmogrify your opinions into objective truths:
1. Shouting.
2. The fact that YOU really believe it to be true, despite the lack of conclusive evidence (unless you are being played by Kevin Costner).
3. The fact that you find the opposing opinion offensive does not make you right, it makes you small-minded (or else every racist, homophobe or fanatic of any kind would be a moral authority by virtue of insanity).
4. Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")
People do not need your permission to have or to express an opinion. If you think that they are wrong - challenge them. If you know them to be logically incorrect - prove it. If you can't but you are still bothered that they are allowed to freely speak their mind -
THEN
GROW
THE
*CENSORED FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS WORD EXISTS*
UP!!!
I remember that episode. It was great.castlewise said:I agree. Sexism or racism isn't defined by how you think so much as by your actions. I think if you make sexist jokes which cause women discomfort and grief then you are, by definition, sexist. Whether you think of yourself as sexist or not is a different story. Mediocre bad guys almost never think of themselves as bad guys.
On a different note: Its interesting to see how this matches up with your political correctness video. Its not that they are incompatible by any means. Its just that watching those two videos gives a sense of the sometimes narrow region in between being an ass and being politically incorrect.