The Big Picture: Shell Shock
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Bob's big problems with the Green Lantern movie, at least as I remember it, is that the movie itself was bad. Today's video isn't saying that fans need to get over something being bad, but we shouldn't get too hung up on what we understand is "canon." TMNT is used as an example since most fans of the series didn't start with the original comics, and the Saturday morning cartoon and the movies made substantial changes to TMNT lore.Aprilgold said:
When the movie's released chances are it will be pretty bad on its own right, and if it is I'm sure Bob will be ready to pan it.
I'll openly admit I was introduced to the TMNT franchise through the cartoon series, and through that into the Paladium RPG and through that to the TPB collections of the original series (which began a domino effect of comic book reading and "indy" or underground comics in general.)
That being said I can't say that I really thought of the cartoons as the originals nor the basis for which the characters should be molded. Mainly because I will never understand the weird assumption that a lot of 80's and early 90's entertainment had that the word teenager was synonymous with surfer dude.
I liked the 2003 series a lot because it kept the recognizable leader/nerd/rebel/clown motif but managed to do so in a way that wasn't insulting to anyone's intelligence.
That being said I can't say that I really thought of the cartoons as the originals nor the basis for which the characters should be molded. Mainly because I will never understand the weird assumption that a lot of 80's and early 90's entertainment had that the word teenager was synonymous with surfer dude.
I liked the 2003 series a lot because it kept the recognizable leader/nerd/rebel/clown motif but managed to do so in a way that wasn't insulting to anyone's intelligence.
My childhood's best friend, me and my cousin were pretty big fans of the turtles back then, I still look at them with nostalgia to this very day, but I'm certainly not very interested in them any longer, it's literally been a decade, if not a bit more, since the last time I watched the movies, heck, I even completely forgot there was a third movie!, I guess it was that crappy for my mind to erase that thing.
I also liked the 2003 series, it got a wee bit ridiculous in the last episodes, but I still liked it.
About Robotnik / Eggman... I don't care. I seriously don't care, it's just a damn dispossable villain with a ridiculous name either way.
I also liked the 2003 series, it got a wee bit ridiculous in the last episodes, but I still liked it.
About Robotnik / Eggman... I don't care. I seriously don't care, it's just a damn dispossable villain with a ridiculous name either way.
templar1138a said:
Looks like the only asinine thing around here is meShadowstar38 said:
I always confuse those two, thanks for the correction fellas.
Holy shit. It took a lot of courage for him to post last week's video on here, regardless of whether or not you agree with his opinion. Do we now have to make non-Mass Effect threads into Mass Effect threads as well, now? Please just stop already. Go create a separate thread like all the other ME3 threads. There are so many already; we don't need people to hijack non-ME3 threads now.DVS BSTrD said:
Plus, the two examples aren't in any way similar. ME3's ending was made by the same people, based on the same universe, and incorporated the same characters and elements from the first two. There are no other versions of Mass Effect. There are no preceding comics or other Mass Effect things from other mediums or times. That's it.
Not just Green Lantern but Expendables, Scott Pilgrim, he did an episode about rebooting Sonic, etc.
He can totally complain about fan response and considering the heat he took for adding sketches to his webshow I understand his sympathies but putting himself out there on this really did earn him the oppurtunity to be judged on his character and conduct and consistency.
Overall him complaining about the retake mass effect thing comes off as HIGHLY hypocritical and dubious for someone who felt so opinionated he made THREE webshows about proliferating his opinions. Moreover as he did so as an aside AFTER doing an ep on the retake Mass Effect phenomenon and didn't just, ya know, leave it there.
He can totally complain about fan response and considering the heat he took for adding sketches to his webshow I understand his sympathies but putting himself out there on this really did earn him the oppurtunity to be judged on his character and conduct and consistency.
Overall him complaining about the retake mass effect thing comes off as HIGHLY hypocritical and dubious for someone who felt so opinionated he made THREE webshows about proliferating his opinions. Moreover as he did so as an aside AFTER doing an ep on the retake Mass Effect phenomenon and didn't just, ya know, leave it there.
So, as long as it's what got to you first, it's A-okay and must stay?
Sorry, his name was Eggman. Americans changed it, then it got changed back. The turtles were gritty, then they were dumbed down for younger audiences, then they were less dumbed down for a different series later. Evaluate things on their own merit, not one whether or not you have your nostalgia glasses on. Things will change, they always do. No one will take away your memories, and fanboy rage won't give you your childhood back. Don't knock things down just because they are different; knock them down because they suck.
Sorry, his name was Eggman. Americans changed it, then it got changed back. The turtles were gritty, then they were dumbed down for younger audiences, then they were less dumbed down for a different series later. Evaluate things on their own merit, not one whether or not you have your nostalgia glasses on. Things will change, they always do. No one will take away your memories, and fanboy rage won't give you your childhood back. Don't knock things down just because they are different; knock them down because they suck.
It was always Eggman but in America it was changed to Robotnik for a more imposing name if I remember correctly.
Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Allow me to give my personal opinion (and I am really interested to find out if anyone else agrees). First, a tiny bit of background.
I never had any interest in comics at all. I never found them entertaining nor artistically compelling, but I was such a huge fan of the TMNT cartoons and toys that I also bought and read the comics. In fact, I still have my first print run of the very first issue ever of the black and white comic (it's in near-mint condition. Anyone have any idea how much it's worth? I wouldn't sell it, but I'm just curious).
Anyway, I say this because it's relevant to the idea I'm about to lay out. My personal feeling is that, when there are two competing universes and/or storylines for a property -- and particularly when they're from different mediums -- it's ultimately popularity that renders one important and the other obsolete, irrelevant, or, at the very least, unnecessary. What I mean to say is that, while the comics technically existed before the cartoons, it was the cartoons that the vast, vast majority of TMNT lovers ultimately embraced, and therefore it is the cartoons that should be considered the basis for future reboots. If the vast majority of TMNT lovers grew up loving and watching the cartoons, why bother making any future reboots about some other version that a small minority of people actually care about? In the end, the purpose of any sequel, reboot, or other similar form of storytelling that relates to previous tellings from a long time ago, is to (1) make money, and (2) appeal to the fans of the original. It seems like a fruitless endeavor to define "original" as what came first. Instead, it seems more appropriate to consider "original" to be "what first captured the imaginations of the lovers of the property that remain today." Although I do freely admit that this is not the technical definition of the word "original." Perhaps it's better to use a different term.
So, what do other people think about this?
OT: the new Captcha is very interesting. What an innovative idea to place ads in it and basically force the user to read and respond to them, rather than allowing them to gloss over and disregard them. Genius marketing idea.
I never had any interest in comics at all. I never found them entertaining nor artistically compelling, but I was such a huge fan of the TMNT cartoons and toys that I also bought and read the comics. In fact, I still have my first print run of the very first issue ever of the black and white comic (it's in near-mint condition. Anyone have any idea how much it's worth? I wouldn't sell it, but I'm just curious).
Anyway, I say this because it's relevant to the idea I'm about to lay out. My personal feeling is that, when there are two competing universes and/or storylines for a property -- and particularly when they're from different mediums -- it's ultimately popularity that renders one important and the other obsolete, irrelevant, or, at the very least, unnecessary. What I mean to say is that, while the comics technically existed before the cartoons, it was the cartoons that the vast, vast majority of TMNT lovers ultimately embraced, and therefore it is the cartoons that should be considered the basis for future reboots. If the vast majority of TMNT lovers grew up loving and watching the cartoons, why bother making any future reboots about some other version that a small minority of people actually care about? In the end, the purpose of any sequel, reboot, or other similar form of storytelling that relates to previous tellings from a long time ago, is to (1) make money, and (2) appeal to the fans of the original. It seems like a fruitless endeavor to define "original" as what came first. Instead, it seems more appropriate to consider "original" to be "what first captured the imaginations of the lovers of the property that remain today." Although I do freely admit that this is not the technical definition of the word "original." Perhaps it's better to use a different term.
So, what do other people think about this?
OT: the new Captcha is very interesting. What an innovative idea to place ads in it and basically force the user to read and respond to them, rather than allowing them to gloss over and disregard them. Genius marketing idea.
People saying Michael Bay has made TMNT crap, I'd like to pose a question to you:
Hasn't TMNT always been absolute crap?
Hasn't TMNT always been absolute crap?
Yes, but...um...er....it's OUR crap.TownTattle said:
Being a huge fan of something is weird. It can make us irrational. When it's not making us irrational, it usually makes us at least over-committed to something that doesn't deserve nearly the amount of attention we give it.
We all have things like that, and we become so invested in them that we often go overboard and even forget what the quality was really like.
Then again, most of us here (including me) grew up with TMNT, and what constitutes quality when you're a kid is very different from what constitutes quality when you're an adult. And if you considered something quality when you were little, you can't simply let go of that feeling of admiration toward what might ultimately be deemed crap by your adult standards. It still feels like quality because it matches our memories of it.
You are absolutely right. I recently watched those Green Lantern videos again (because they're fucking hilarious), and he panned it because it was awful, awful moviemaking. If someone is claiming otherwise it is either because (A) they didn't watch or pay attention to the videos; (B) they are lying in order to further a point that doesn't have anything to do with this thread anyway; or (C) both.Hungry Donner said:
Howdy Bob. Good video. I remember my first exposure to the Turtles being a book that had collected all of the previous graphic novels into one big work. My friends and I picked it up after we had watched the show for quite a while. I remember being puzzled by the darker tone of the comic, but I liked it. (To this day I remember Master Splinter snagging an arrow out of the air that one of the foot shot at him through a window. So sick.) I was wondering, are you surprised at all by fandom's reactions to stuff like this? Adults now spent a lot of time investing their own imaginations into these worlds back in the day. I think on some level people react negatively to changes in canon because they feel like they're being told "your imagination was wrong, or at the very least, not good enough". I don't think it's a conscious reaction, necessarily. I imagine that most people just feel like the changes are "wrong" and don't spend much time figuring out why it feels that way. What do you think?
That's all well and good but as far as I'm aware, in no version of TMNT have the Turtles been aliens. And no, being mutated by alien ooze does not make you an alien; it makes you a mutant.
I'm all for new takes on established franchises but when the title is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you're kind of stuck with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Of course, now the film's title is simply Ninja Turtles. So, aliens. Yay. Just make a good movie.
Andrew Eisen
I'm all for new takes on established franchises but when the title is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you're kind of stuck with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Of course, now the film's title is simply Ninja Turtles. So, aliens. Yay. Just make a good movie.
Andrew Eisen
OT: Sorry, I see now that I unwittingly helped to make this an ME3 thread by responding to the ME3 crap (and I still didn't see a response as to why people should continue hijacking thread to make them about ME3. Are you now going to troll every single thread for a MovieBob video? Wonderful. I'm sure most people will love that. Just like most people in this thread started off talking about ME3. Oh wait, no they didn't. Just they guy who was waiting around so he could be the very first post and could try and make it about ME3).
Anyway, one more thing about TMNT: I just want to take a little poll here relating to the first idea I laid out about what version they should follow. So:
Which version do YOU, fellow Escapists, want to see the movie use?
I'll come see the responses later and, if there are a lot, I'll create a new thread with a real poll. I must go eat that pepperoni roll now. It looks so good. Or perhaps I should make a pizza to honor our beloved turtles?
Anyway, one more thing about TMNT: I just want to take a little poll here relating to the first idea I laid out about what version they should follow. So:
Which version do YOU, fellow Escapists, want to see the movie use?
I'll come see the responses later and, if there are a lot, I'll create a new thread with a real poll. I must go eat that pepperoni roll now. It looks so good. Or perhaps I should make a pizza to honor our beloved turtles?
I didn't grow up with the turtles I grew up at the same time as the reboot but I was pretty loyal to KidsWB I saw one episode as a kid but I decided not to tune in because I heard it was milking a dead horse from my older brother who like 22 and saw a few syndicated reruns.
After seeing James Rofle's TMNT retrospective I have no interest in watching the original cause it looks like a cluster fuck. no continuing stories in most area change in tone Ten season the last three season being incredibly over a hundred annimation errors and corning jokes even though his retrospective was positive it just didn't seem up my alley so I watched the first 7 episodes of the reboot and I regret not watching it was fucking good so I don't understand why bob wouldn't like it. It wasn't trying to be the dark knight or anything it was just a good cartoon.
After seeing James Rofle's TMNT retrospective I have no interest in watching the original cause it looks like a cluster fuck. no continuing stories in most area change in tone Ten season the last three season being incredibly over a hundred annimation errors and corning jokes even though his retrospective was positive it just didn't seem up my alley so I watched the first 7 episodes of the reboot and I regret not watching it was fucking good so I don't understand why bob wouldn't like it. It wasn't trying to be the dark knight or anything it was just a good cartoon.