The Big Picture: Shell Shock

[CrazyGirl17]

Y'know, like so many other people, I was introduced through the turtles through the cartoons, and didn't actually read the comics until years later, something I'm making up for now. I also have my sights set on the tabletop RPs they used to make. (And yes, I liked the '03 cartoon, but to each their own).

I'm with Bob, I'm hoping this movie turns out good... though my standards of "good" are different than everyone else's...

(Also, I never had a problem with using "Eggman"... but again, I have different tastes.)

 

[Storm Dragon]

Something that always bugged me about the Turtles: They are marketed primarily towards children, and thus aren't allowed to use intentionally lethal violence, but Leonardo and Raphael use katanas and sais, weapons that have a slight tendency towards lethality.

 

[skylog]

Thanks to my older brother having Volume 2 of the original comic's paperback collection (which featured the first appearance of Fugitoid, the Utroms, the Triceritons, and Raphael hitting on a eight-breasted green blob in an alien bar) I've always known that the turtles started as a comic, and one that was hugely different from the cartoon we both loved. Which is why I like 2003 version the best. It stayed true to the comic, but kept the established personalities from the 90's version and some of the camp as well. Hell, there's a storyline that involves a hidden city of monsters underneath the sewers.

Not only that, but it gave Casey Jones, the Fugitoid, and Myamoto Usagi larger roles, and included character development that in some cases lasted over the course of the entire series (see: Karai and Baxter Stockman).

That being said, I'll always have a special place in my heart for the 90's version, and everything it stood for. I definitely agree with Bob saying it had more charm.


And regarding Robotnik/Eggman, I like to think that Eggman was Sonic's means of insulting the doctor, who decided the best thing to do would be to take that name and own it, hence why all his inventions have the name 'egg' in the title (Egg Dragoon, Egg Emperor, Death Egg, eggc.) Sonic knows this, but keeps using Eggman because he seems like the type of person who's too lazy to come up with a new insult.

 

[spartandude]

so some batman villains are used alot because... fans wanted it?.... but... bob.... doesnt giving into what the fans want set it back a decade?

 

[minimacker]

The thing about the Mirage series was that it wasn't famous at the time. It didn't have a massive fanbase and was thus far easier to change and use differently.

TMNT today HAS a massive fanbase. Now they're doing "the same thing", but with far more resistance. I think that's the thing people need to see. The small rock was easily moved, but the huge boulder will give resistance.

 

[Badassassin]

Yeah, and Harley Quinn came from the animated series. But she's completely canon now.

The whole batman thing really goes to show that change to a property can be good.




I must've been like the only one who didn't watch TMNT when I was a kid, so I don't really care either way. I do think it's funny though that after making a statement about mass effect fans want to fucking crucify him over it, and he's doing pretty much nothing to respond to it. Personally, I think it's the smartest thing he can do in this situation.

 

[Nerdstar]

my problem with bays turtles doesn't stem from a changing of the source material,as bob has already shown the turtles have gone through a lot of changes but in general we as fans of the show/nerds have created a sort of zeitgeist cannon. my big problem is simply that bay is is attached to the project and given his track record for geek films I'm not to optimistic about it, I'm all for adding to the story if its done intelligently and in a way that can at least come to terms with said zeitgeist cannon however bay has proven that he cant make an original story without screwing up the original franchise.had they helmed someone else with more nerd cred and said that id at least be a bit more optimistic but as such my plan is to not see the film wait until the braver/more foolish fans(haven't decided which they are yet)go see to tell me that it was horrible so i can decide to not go see it again.

(also i agree bob the Mario brothers were always from Brooklyn to me and Dr. robotnik has always been Dr. robotnik's, name loved that shout out)

 

[J-Alfred]

I hate to say this, but for the first time watching this show, I found myself asking the question "So What?"

I'm not saying this episode didn't make some good points, but I never heard anything that I'll be taking with me after I leave the computer. This episode was pretty much just fluff, in my opinion. Very well-written fluff, but fluff all the same.

Sorry, Bob.

 

[Hazy992]

Wait a minute a here, there's one thing I don't understand:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

What year were you born? No I'm being serious because TMNT was the shit in the 80's and 90's.

 

[blackrave]

I liked more how Doug Walker from ThatGuyWithTheGlasses covered that (in less serious manner)
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/34667-why-ninja-turtles-should-be-aliens
Maybe Doug isn't TMNT fan, but he have a point
"Shame on you, that only now are you realizing that letting Michael Bay direct this is a bad idea"
My only objection is that Michael Bay loves US army even more than explosions, so turtles and Splinter would originate from american soldiers

Also I already wrote it, but anyway
Alien=/=extraterrestrial
Check dictionary, "alien" can also be used to describe something that is pretty unusual or doesn't fit. And in such manner turtles might be described as "alien"
There still might be some hope left

 

[Nick Holmgren]

Except this is Bay, so when he tries something new it is more likely to suck than not.
What changes to transformers were good?

It is the same problem.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

80s Turtles fan here, will always remember the first two movies fondly. Sadly, all this controversy seems moot to me, not only given the legendarily bad producing team involved but the huge age jump between the Turtles' most definitive incarnation and now.

Your older audience, the ones who would understand a 'gritty' reboot, are used to the silly 80s show. If you stick closely to that, the kid audience you could have pulled in like hotcakes twenty years ago might not even know what TMNT is (might be wrong, I'm not sure how popular the '03 version was among the younger crowds). That's the trap they're in, the same one that plagues Transformers and any other 80s cartoon properties they want to try rebooting.

If we had a better director involved I would suggest an attempted hybridization of the two styles. Among other things that made TMNT stand out was their wisecracks, along with the widespread introduction of family-friendly ninja type characters, with oriental weapons unlike anything kids had ever seen before. There's no rule that says they can't be serious and practice all the best aspects of ninjitsu while also being goofballs when not under the disciplined eye of their master. In fact, I'd consider it implied more than once that one of the reasons they win is due to unorthodox tactics and a sense of humour in contrast to the Shredder's constant gloom and doom.

Names can change. Shredder's been an alien too. But if he's serious about the whole 'alien turtles' thing... eh, I don't think I would've watched it anyway.

 

[OneTwoThreeBlast]

Your older audience, the ones who would understand a 'gritty' reboot, are used to the silly 80s show. If you stick closely to that, the kid audience you could have pulled in like hotcakes twenty years ago might not even know what TMNT is (might be wrong, I'm not sure how popular the '03 version was among the younger crowds). That's the trap they're in, the same one that plagues Transformers and any other 80s cartoon properties they want to try rebooting.

This is an excellent point that never would have occurred to me. You get my Gold Star for Excellence

 

[Shoggoth2588]

You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.

...What?! I grew up in a Nintendo house during the 90's and still think Dr. Eggman is a stupid name.

---

I knew the comics were different but I never actually read any of them. Most of my info from them comes from cracked anyway and my mind was a little bit blown when I read about the Shredder arc. Honestly all I'd like to see from the movie is a good film-adaptation of Bebop and Rocksteady but I don't know if those characters were big in the last iteration of the show. It would also be cool to see a Shredder who doesn't remind me of a duck (sorry but in the movies his mask/helm looked like something out of Duck-Tales to me).

My mind is a little blown by the Mr. Freeze thing though: I watched the Adam West show as a kid and don't remember ever seeing the guy.

 

[vid87]

3 things:

-Thank you Bob for explaining the "Everyone's Raphael" art - that bugged the hell out of me when I was a kid.

-I admit I was (and still am to some extent) part of the rage against the "alien" origins, largely due to my growing up with 80's cartoon. But having heard the director's explanation that it coincides with the comics and is actual canon to some degree, I honestly feel bad about being pissed with them: I thought they were changing it because the studio simply didn't care what they made and were using this debacle as a way bring in new people not already familiar with the Turtles (and get free publicity). Am I still skeptical about this being good? Sure, but not as much as before.

-Suggestion Bob - since everyone is talking about "Eggman" now, I think it might be interesting to segway into Sonic next. And here's something weird that I think warrants discussion: I was thumbing through an Archies Sonic comic at a supermarket and came to a part at the end where Robotnik was apparently killed and a storeroom filled with HUNDREDS of Robotnik clones, each with their own design, activates the redesigned Robotnik we know as Eggman in current versions. My one question at least for now - was this strictly the comic's way of introducing Eggman to American audiences and retconning Robotnik, or are there really several clones that Sonic will have to deal with at some point?

 

[MovieBob]

Hey Bob I got a proposal for you: We'll admit we weren't into the underground comics first when YOU admit you had ZERO understanding of "that other thing mentioned" in last week's episode. Deal?

You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.

Holy shit. It took a lot of courage for him to post last week's video on here, regardless of whether or not you agree with his opinion. Do we now have to make non-Mass Effect threads into Mass Effect threads as well, now? Please just stop already. Go create a separate thread like all the other ME3 threads. There are so many already; we don't need people to hijack non-ME3 threads now.

Plus, the two examples aren't in any way similar. ME3's ending was made by the same people, based on the same universe, and incorporated the same characters and elements from the first two. There are no other versions of Mass Effect. There are no preceding comics or other Mass Effect things from other mediums or times. That's it.

I think you're confusing courage with hypocrisy, or did I miss the part in <color=green>Going Green where he DIDN'T applaud Jeff John's "caving into" fan pressure and ret-conning Hall Jordan's transformation into Parallax?

And as for "preceding" material for Mass Effect? Try the preceding games, novels or even the rest of ME3 excluding the last 10 minutes. It's not that the story was transplanted from another medium or given to different creators, but that, like with changing Robotnik's name to Eggman, they made it into something that it wasn't.

Just a point of order here: The Kyle Rayner "Green Lantern" lasted a DECADE, and while HEAT probably claims a certain amount of credit for the retcon, it was Geoff Johns - a fan who worked his way up to be an official DC Wrtier - who CHOSE to bring Hal back.

 

[Axolotl]

Wait a minute a here, there's one thing I don't understand:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

What year were you born? No I'm being serious because TMNT was the shit in the 80's and 90's.

I know it was popular then, I just can't grasp why anyone cares about it now. I mean I get caring about today's pop culture stuff and I get caring about the great works of the past but I just cannot understand why people give a damn about the pop trash of the past. Hell I can sort of get why people might want to go back and experience/revisit the franchise from back when it was something, but why care what they do with it now? It's time has passed, that Hollywood is making a film of it should merely highlight their own idiocy and artistic bankruptcy. But somehow there are people who care, I just don't get that. Why? Why care now?

 

[Hazy992]

Wait a minute a here, there's one thing I don't understand:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

What year were you born? No I'm being serious because TMNT was the shit in the 80's and 90's.

I know it was popular then, I just can't grasp why anyone cares about it now. I mean I get caring about today's pop culture stuff and I get caring about the great works of the past but I just cannot understand why people give a damn about the pop trash of the past. Hell I can sort of get why people might want to go back and experience/revisit the franchise from back when it was something, but why care what they do with it now? It's time has passed, that Hollywood is making a film of it should merely highlight their own idiocy and artistic bankruptcy. But somehow there are people who care, I just don't get that. Why? Why care now?

I dunno they just do. If it was a big part of their childhood memories then they're bound to remember it arent they?

 

[Daverson]

Dr Robotnik's actually always been called Eggman D=

In the Japanese release, he was literally called Eggman, they changed it to "Dr Ovi Robotnik" for the European and American release to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles (the name comes from the song "I am the Walrus"). It's a combination of Latin and (I think) Polish, and literally translates into English as "Egg Man". Fun fact, that!

Though, I will agree that Robotnik is a much cooler name. Why they changed it in the newer stuff to match the Japanese versions is a mystery. Though, the newer stuff is a mystery in itself, I guess.

(*sigh* when recreational time travel is finally invented, I think I'm going to spend all my holidays in the 90s...)

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Although how exactly would you do Krang in live action?