The Big Picture: Shell Shock

nintendo414

Wakaman
Mar 16, 2010
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It was always Eggman but in America it was changed to Robotnik for a more imposing name if I remember correctly.
 

OneTwoThreeBlast

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Jun 24, 2010
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Anyway, back to the subject at hand. Allow me to give my personal opinion (and I am really interested to find out if anyone else agrees). First, a tiny bit of background.

I never had any interest in comics at all. I never found them entertaining nor artistically compelling, but I was such a huge fan of the TMNT cartoons and toys that I also bought and read the comics. In fact, I still have my first print run of the very first issue ever of the black and white comic (it's in near-mint condition. Anyone have any idea how much it's worth? I wouldn't sell it, but I'm just curious).

Anyway, I say this because it's relevant to the idea I'm about to lay out. My personal feeling is that, when there are two competing universes and/or storylines for a property -- and particularly when they're from different mediums -- it's ultimately popularity that renders one important and the other obsolete, irrelevant, or, at the very least, unnecessary. What I mean to say is that, while the comics technically existed before the cartoons, it was the cartoons that the vast, vast majority of TMNT lovers ultimately embraced, and therefore it is the cartoons that should be considered the basis for future reboots. If the vast majority of TMNT lovers grew up loving and watching the cartoons, why bother making any future reboots about some other version that a small minority of people actually care about? In the end, the purpose of any sequel, reboot, or other similar form of storytelling that relates to previous tellings from a long time ago, is to (1) make money, and (2) appeal to the fans of the original. It seems like a fruitless endeavor to define "original" as what came first. Instead, it seems more appropriate to consider "original" to be "what first captured the imaginations of the lovers of the property that remain today." Although I do freely admit that this is not the technical definition of the word "original." Perhaps it's better to use a different term.

So, what do other people think about this?

OT: the new Captcha is very interesting. What an innovative idea to place ads in it and basically force the user to read and respond to them, rather than allowing them to gloss over and disregard them. Genius marketing idea.
 

TownTattle

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Nov 7, 2011
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People saying Michael Bay has made TMNT crap, I'd like to pose a question to you:

Hasn't TMNT always been absolute crap?
 

OneTwoThreeBlast

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Jun 24, 2010
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TownTattle said:
People saying Michael Bay has made TMNT crap, I'd like to pose a question to you:

Hasn't TMNT always been absolute crap?
Yes, but...um...er....it's OUR crap.

Being a huge fan of something is weird. It can make us irrational. When it's not making us irrational, it usually makes us at least over-committed to something that doesn't deserve nearly the amount of attention we give it.

We all have things like that, and we become so invested in them that we often go overboard and even forget what the quality was really like.

Then again, most of us here (including me) grew up with TMNT, and what constitutes quality when you're a kid is very different from what constitutes quality when you're an adult. And if you considered something quality when you were little, you can't simply let go of that feeling of admiration toward what might ultimately be deemed crap by your adult standards. It still feels like quality because it matches our memories of it.
 

OneTwoThreeBlast

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Jun 24, 2010
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Hungry Donner said:
Aprilgold said:
Or how hypocritical Bob can be, telling fanboys to grow up when he basically whined about the new Green Lantern movie, for something like four episodes.
Bob's big problems with the Green Lantern movie, at least as I remember it, is that the movie itself was bad. Today's video isn't saying that fans need to get over something being bad, but we shouldn't get too hung up on what we understand is "canon." TMNT is used as an example since most fans of the series didn't start with the original comics, and the Saturday morning cartoon and the movies made substantial changes to TMNT lore.

When the movie's released chances are it will be pretty bad on its own right, and if it is I'm sure Bob will be ready to pan it.
You are absolutely right. I recently watched those Green Lantern videos again (because they're fucking hilarious), and he panned it because it was awful, awful moviemaking. If someone is claiming otherwise it is either because (A) they didn't watch or pay attention to the videos; (B) they are lying in order to further a point that doesn't have anything to do with this thread anyway; or (C) both.
 

VonBrewskie

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Apr 9, 2009
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Howdy Bob. Good video. I remember my first exposure to the Turtles being a book that had collected all of the previous graphic novels into one big work. My friends and I picked it up after we had watched the show for quite a while. I remember being puzzled by the darker tone of the comic, but I liked it. (To this day I remember Master Splinter snagging an arrow out of the air that one of the foot shot at him through a window. So sick.) I was wondering, are you surprised at all by fandom's reactions to stuff like this? Adults now spent a lot of time investing their own imaginations into these worlds back in the day. I think on some level people react negatively to changes in canon because they feel like they're being told "your imagination was wrong, or at the very least, not good enough". I don't think it's a conscious reaction, necessarily. I imagine that most people just feel like the changes are "wrong" and don't spend much time figuring out why it feels that way. What do you think?
 

Andrew_Eisen

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Aug 23, 2011
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That's all well and good but as far as I'm aware, in no version of TMNT have the Turtles been aliens. And no, being mutated by alien ooze does not make you an alien; it makes you a mutant.

I'm all for new takes on established franchises but when the title is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you're kind of stuck with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Of course, now the film's title is simply Ninja Turtles. So, aliens. Yay. Just make a good movie.


Andrew Eisen
 

OneTwoThreeBlast

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Jun 24, 2010
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OT: Sorry, I see now that I unwittingly helped to make this an ME3 thread by responding to the ME3 crap (and I still didn't see a response as to why people should continue hijacking thread to make them about ME3. Are you now going to troll every single thread for a MovieBob video? Wonderful. I'm sure most people will love that. Just like most people in this thread started off talking about ME3. Oh wait, no they didn't. Just they guy who was waiting around so he could be the very first post and could try and make it about ME3).

Anyway, one more thing about TMNT: I just want to take a little poll here relating to the first idea I laid out about what version they should follow. So:

Which version do YOU, fellow Escapists, want to see the movie use?

I'll come see the responses later and, if there are a lot, I'll create a new thread with a real poll. I must go eat that pepperoni roll now. It looks so good. Or perhaps I should make a pizza to honor our beloved turtles?
 

Alphamarigi

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Mar 22, 2009
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I didn't grow up with the turtles I grew up at the same time as the reboot but I was pretty loyal to KidsWB I saw one episode as a kid but I decided not to tune in because I heard it was milking a dead horse from my older brother who like 22 and saw a few syndicated reruns.

After seeing James Rofle's TMNT retrospective I have no interest in watching the original cause it looks like a cluster fuck. no continuing stories in most area change in tone Ten season the last three season being incredibly over a hundred annimation errors and corning jokes even though his retrospective was positive it just didn't seem up my alley so I watched the first 7 episodes of the reboot and I regret not watching it was fucking good so I don't understand why bob wouldn't like it. It wasn't trying to be the dark knight or anything it was just a good cartoon.
 

dragonshardz

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Mar 22, 2010
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DVS BSTrD said:
Hey Bob I got a proposal for you: We'll admit we weren't into the underground comics first when YOU admit you had ZERO understanding of "that other thing mentioned" in last week's episode. Deal?

You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.
Ditto.
 

CrazyGirl17

I am a banana!
Sep 11, 2009
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Y'know, like so many other people, I was introduced through the turtles through the cartoons, and didn't actually read the comics until years later, something I'm making up for now. I also have my sights set on the tabletop RPs they used to make. (And yes, I liked the '03 cartoon, but to each their own).

I'm with Bob, I'm hoping this movie turns out good... though my standards of "good" are different than everyone else's...

(Also, I never had a problem with using "Eggman"... but again, I have different tastes.)
 

Storm Dragon

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Nov 29, 2011
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Something that always bugged me about the Turtles: They are marketed primarily towards children, and thus aren't allowed to use intentionally lethal violence, but Leonardo and Raphael use katanas and sais, weapons that have a slight tendency towards lethality.
 

skylog

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Nov 9, 2009
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Thanks to my older brother having Volume 2 of the original comic's paperback collection (which featured the first appearance of Fugitoid, the Utroms, the Triceritons, and Raphael hitting on a eight-breasted green blob in an alien bar) I've always known that the turtles started as a comic, and one that was hugely different from the cartoon we both loved. Which is why I like 2003 version the best. It stayed true to the comic, but kept the established personalities from the 90's version and some of the camp as well. Hell, there's a storyline that involves a hidden city of monsters underneath the sewers.

Not only that, but it gave Casey Jones, the Fugitoid, and Myamoto Usagi larger roles, and included character development that in some cases lasted over the course of the entire series (see: Karai and Baxter Stockman).

That being said, I'll always have a special place in my heart for the 90's version, and everything it stood for. I definitely agree with Bob saying it had more charm.


And regarding Robotnik/Eggman, I like to think that Eggman was Sonic's means of insulting the doctor, who decided the best thing to do would be to take that name and own it, hence why all his inventions have the name 'egg' in the title (Egg Dragoon, Egg Emperor, Death Egg, eggc.) Sonic knows this, but keeps using Eggman because he seems like the type of person who's too lazy to come up with a new insult.
 

spartandude

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Nov 24, 2009
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so some batman villains are used alot because... fans wanted it?.... but... bob.... doesnt giving into what the fans want set it back a decade?
 

minimacker

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Apr 20, 2010
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The thing about the Mirage series was that it wasn't famous at the time. It didn't have a massive fanbase and was thus far easier to change and use differently.

TMNT today HAS a massive fanbase. Now they're doing "the same thing", but with far more resistance. I think that's the thing people need to see. The small rock was easily moved, but the huge boulder will give resistance.
 

Badassassin

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Jan 16, 2010
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Yeah, and Harley Quinn came from the animated series. But she's completely canon now.

The whole batman thing really goes to show that change to a property can be good.




I must've been like the only one who didn't watch TMNT when I was a kid, so I don't really care either way. I do think it's funny though that after making a statement about mass effect fans want to fucking crucify him over it, and he's doing pretty much nothing to respond to it. Personally, I think it's the smartest thing he can do in this situation.
 

Nerdstar

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Apr 29, 2011
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my problem with bays turtles doesn't stem from a changing of the source material,as bob has already shown the turtles have gone through a lot of changes but in general we as fans of the show/nerds have created a sort of zeitgeist cannon. my big problem is simply that bay is is attached to the project and given his track record for geek films I'm not to optimistic about it, I'm all for adding to the story if its done intelligently and in a way that can at least come to terms with said zeitgeist cannon however bay has proven that he cant make an original story without screwing up the original franchise.had they helmed someone else with more nerd cred and said that id at least be a bit more optimistic but as such my plan is to not see the film wait until the braver/more foolish fans(haven't decided which they are yet)go see to tell me that it was horrible so i can decide to not go see it again.

(also i agree bob the Mario brothers were always from Brooklyn to me and Dr. robotnik has always been Dr. robotnik's, name loved that shout out)
 

J-Alfred

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Jul 28, 2009
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I hate to say this, but for the first time watching this show, I found myself asking the question "So What?"

I'm not saying this episode didn't make some good points, but I never heard anything that I'll be taking with me after I leave the computer. This episode was pretty much just fluff, in my opinion. Very well-written fluff, but fluff all the same.

Sorry, Bob.