The Big Picture: Shell Shock
- Thread starter MovieBob
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I liked more how Doug Walker from ThatGuyWithTheGlasses covered that (in less serious manner)
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/34667-why-ninja-turtles-should-be-aliens
Maybe Doug isn't TMNT fan, but he have a point
"Shame on you, that only now are you realizing that letting Michael Bay direct this is a bad idea"
My only objection is that Michael Bay loves US army even more than explosions, so turtles and Splinter would originate from american soldiers
Also I already wrote it, but anyway
Alien=/=extraterrestrial
Check dictionary, "alien" can also be used to describe something that is pretty unusual or doesn't fit. And in such manner turtles might be described as "alien"
There still might be some hope left
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/specials/34667-why-ninja-turtles-should-be-aliens
Maybe Doug isn't TMNT fan, but he have a point
"Shame on you, that only now are you realizing that letting Michael Bay direct this is a bad idea"
My only objection is that Michael Bay loves US army even more than explosions, so turtles and Splinter would originate from american soldiers
Also I already wrote it, but anyway
Alien=/=extraterrestrial
Check dictionary, "alien" can also be used to describe something that is pretty unusual or doesn't fit. And in such manner turtles might be described as "alien"
There still might be some hope left
Except this is Bay, so when he tries something new it is more likely to suck than not.
What changes to transformers were good?
It is the same problem.
What changes to transformers were good?
It is the same problem.
80s Turtles fan here, will always remember the first two movies fondly. Sadly, all this controversy seems moot to me, not only given the legendarily bad producing team involved but the huge age jump between the Turtles' most definitive incarnation and now.
Your older audience, the ones who would understand a 'gritty' reboot, are used to the silly 80s show. If you stick closely to that, the kid audience you could have pulled in like hotcakes twenty years ago might not even know what TMNT is (might be wrong, I'm not sure how popular the '03 version was among the younger crowds). That's the trap they're in, the same one that plagues Transformers and any other 80s cartoon properties they want to try rebooting.
If we had a better director involved I would suggest an attempted hybridization of the two styles. Among other things that made TMNT stand out was their wisecracks, along with the widespread introduction of family-friendly ninja type characters, with oriental weapons unlike anything kids had ever seen before. There's no rule that says they can't be serious and practice all the best aspects of ninjitsu while also being goofballs when not under the disciplined eye of their master. In fact, I'd consider it implied more than once that one of the reasons they win is due to unorthodox tactics and a sense of humour in contrast to the Shredder's constant gloom and doom.
Names can change. Shredder's been an alien too. But if he's serious about the whole 'alien turtles' thing... eh, I don't think I would've watched it anyway.
Your older audience, the ones who would understand a 'gritty' reboot, are used to the silly 80s show. If you stick closely to that, the kid audience you could have pulled in like hotcakes twenty years ago might not even know what TMNT is (might be wrong, I'm not sure how popular the '03 version was among the younger crowds). That's the trap they're in, the same one that plagues Transformers and any other 80s cartoon properties they want to try rebooting.
If we had a better director involved I would suggest an attempted hybridization of the two styles. Among other things that made TMNT stand out was their wisecracks, along with the widespread introduction of family-friendly ninja type characters, with oriental weapons unlike anything kids had ever seen before. There's no rule that says they can't be serious and practice all the best aspects of ninjitsu while also being goofballs when not under the disciplined eye of their master. In fact, I'd consider it implied more than once that one of the reasons they win is due to unorthodox tactics and a sense of humour in contrast to the Shredder's constant gloom and doom.
Names can change. Shredder's been an alien too. But if he's serious about the whole 'alien turtles' thing... eh, I don't think I would've watched it anyway.
This is an excellent point that never would have occurred to me. You get my Gold Star for ExcellenceWhiteFangofWar said:
...What?! I grew up in a Nintendo house during the 90's and still think Dr. Eggman is a stupid name.DVS BSTrD said:
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I knew the comics were different but I never actually read any of them. Most of my info from them comes from cracked anyway and my mind was a little bit blown when I read about the Shredder arc. Honestly all I'd like to see from the movie is a good film-adaptation of Bebop and Rocksteady but I don't know if those characters were big in the last iteration of the show. It would also be cool to see a Shredder who doesn't remind me of a duck (sorry but in the movies his mask/helm looked like something out of Duck-Tales to me).
My mind is a little blown by the Mr. Freeze thing though: I watched the Adam West show as a kid and don't remember ever seeing the guy.
3 things:
-Thank you Bob for explaining the "Everyone's Raphael" art - that bugged the hell out of me when I was a kid.
-I admit I was (and still am to some extent) part of the rage against the "alien" origins, largely due to my growing up with 80's cartoon. But having heard the director's explanation that it coincides with the comics and is actual canon to some degree, I honestly feel bad about being pissed with them: I thought they were changing it because the studio simply didn't care what they made and were using this debacle as a way bring in new people not already familiar with the Turtles (and get free publicity). Am I still skeptical about this being good? Sure, but not as much as before.
-Suggestion Bob - since everyone is talking about "Eggman" now, I think it might be interesting to segway into Sonic next. And here's something weird that I think warrants discussion: I was thumbing through an Archies Sonic comic at a supermarket and came to a part at the end where Robotnik was apparently killed and a storeroom filled with HUNDREDS of Robotnik clones, each with their own design, activates the redesigned Robotnik we know as Eggman in current versions. My one question at least for now - was this strictly the comic's way of introducing Eggman to American audiences and retconning Robotnik, or are there really several clones that Sonic will have to deal with at some point?
-Thank you Bob for explaining the "Everyone's Raphael" art - that bugged the hell out of me when I was a kid.
-I admit I was (and still am to some extent) part of the rage against the "alien" origins, largely due to my growing up with 80's cartoon. But having heard the director's explanation that it coincides with the comics and is actual canon to some degree, I honestly feel bad about being pissed with them: I thought they were changing it because the studio simply didn't care what they made and were using this debacle as a way bring in new people not already familiar with the Turtles (and get free publicity). Am I still skeptical about this being good? Sure, but not as much as before.
-Suggestion Bob - since everyone is talking about "Eggman" now, I think it might be interesting to segway into Sonic next. And here's something weird that I think warrants discussion: I was thumbing through an Archies Sonic comic at a supermarket and came to a part at the end where Robotnik was apparently killed and a storeroom filled with HUNDREDS of Robotnik clones, each with their own design, activates the redesigned Robotnik we know as Eggman in current versions. My one question at least for now - was this strictly the comic's way of introducing Eggman to American audiences and retconning Robotnik, or are there really several clones that Sonic will have to deal with at some point?
Just a point of order here: The Kyle Rayner "Green Lantern" lasted a DECADE, and while HEAT probably claims a certain amount of credit for the retcon, it was Geoff Johns - a fan who worked his way up to be an official DC Wrtier - who CHOSE to bring Hal back.DVS BSTrD said:
I know it was popular then, I just can't grasp why anyone cares about it now. I mean I get caring about today's pop culture stuff and I get caring about the great works of the past but I just cannot understand why people give a damn about the pop trash of the past. Hell I can sort of get why people might want to go back and experience/revisit the franchise from back when it was something, but why care what they do with it now? It's time has passed, that Hollywood is making a film of it should merely highlight their own idiocy and artistic bankruptcy. But somehow there are people who care, I just don't get that. Why? Why care now?Hazy992 said:
Dr Robotnik's actually always been called Eggman D=
In the Japanese release, he was literally called Eggman, they changed it to "Dr Ovi Robotnik" for the European and American release to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles (the name comes from the song "I am the Walrus"). It's a combination of Latin and (I think) Polish, and literally translates into English as "Egg Man". Fun fact, that!
Though, I will agree that Robotnik is a much cooler name. Why they changed it in the newer stuff to match the Japanese versions is a mystery. Though, the newer stuff is a mystery in itself, I guess.
(*sigh* when recreational time travel is finally invented, I think I'm going to spend all my holidays in the 90s...)
In the Japanese release, he was literally called Eggman, they changed it to "Dr Ovi Robotnik" for the European and American release to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles (the name comes from the song "I am the Walrus"). It's a combination of Latin and (I think) Polish, and literally translates into English as "Egg Man". Fun fact, that!
Though, I will agree that Robotnik is a much cooler name. Why they changed it in the newer stuff to match the Japanese versions is a mystery. Though, the newer stuff is a mystery in itself, I guess.
(*sigh* when recreational time travel is finally invented, I think I'm going to spend all my holidays in the 90s...)
I'd say it's the combination of:
-A recognizable brand that has an established fan base or the potential to create a new one.
-Nostalgia being a very powerful influence on emotion and judgment.
-The allure of film, specifically live-action, making something that can never actually happen seem possible.
-A recognizable brand that has an established fan base or the potential to create a new one.
-Nostalgia being a very powerful influence on emotion and judgment.
-The allure of film, specifically live-action, making something that can never actually happen seem possible.
Speaking of properties you did not know were based on comics...
The incredibly dark and fucked-up version that was more horror than comedy.
The movie and the comic are pretty similar, except about the intentions of the main character. In the movie, he's damned himself to be a bad person, but in the comic he's more concerned with the Catholic notion of sin and redemption as he lights candles and confesses for every person he kills.
The incredibly dark and fucked-up version that was more horror than comedy.
The movie and the comic are pretty similar, except about the intentions of the main character. In the movie, he's damned himself to be a bad person, but in the comic he's more concerned with the Catholic notion of sin and redemption as he lights candles and confesses for every person he kills.
After last week, I think it was smart to go with the TMNT topic and not "the other topic." Heaven knows I'm still sore about it.
I think part of the problem with TMNT is Michael Bay's track record with Transformers. The success (box office wise) of that franchise means that Bay can go ahead with the same kind of formula as Transformers. The title change may have triggered a pre-emptive reaction because now all us nostalgia-tinged grown-ups are expecting TMNT to go the same route. With the first movies, we did okay (until, you know, the third one... or the second one, in my opinion). Now we're all afraid that Michael Bay will "Bay it up."
There's a few more points that I could make about fan influence on "art" based on what you've said in the video, but we're going to let that dog lie (though obviously other commenters aren't so restrained).
I think part of the problem with TMNT is Michael Bay's track record with Transformers. The success (box office wise) of that franchise means that Bay can go ahead with the same kind of formula as Transformers. The title change may have triggered a pre-emptive reaction because now all us nostalgia-tinged grown-ups are expecting TMNT to go the same route. With the first movies, we did okay (until, you know, the third one... or the second one, in my opinion). Now we're all afraid that Michael Bay will "Bay it up."
There's a few more points that I could make about fan influence on "art" based on what you've said in the video, but we're going to let that dog lie (though obviously other commenters aren't so restrained).
Ugh, great. Now it's a conspiracy theory. I hate it when people think they know what others are thinking based on specious arguments and unsubstantiated conclusions.DVS BSTrD said:
