The Fast Track To Internet Infamy

NuclearKangaroo

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MarsAtlas said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
again, i present you the living example that is my country
You mean Venezuela, a country that was formed on the genocide and exodus of white inhabitants?

Funnily enough, Venezuela recently banned racial discrimination on a national level. Now why would they need to do that if there is no racism? Wouldn't, by your logic, banning discrimination on the basis of race only create racism?
my country has also banned "bellic" video games from being sold or manufactured over here, they accused recent student protests of being neo-nazi and banned certain webpages

this government will do anything to appear to be the good guy, dont try to judge the people of venezuela based on the piece of shit government we are stuck with

also, what the fuck are you talking about the genocide and exodus of white inhabitants? the leader of our war of independence, the person which we (rather unfortunately) basically workship like a god and call him "the liebrator" was white

now first you pretended to know more about non-whites than a non-white, and now you pretend to know more about venezuela than a venezuelan, i must say im starting to feel kind of insulted

MarsAtlas said:
when you say the opinion of someone isnt valid because they are straight white male, you are putting barriers
I'm not saying their opinion isn't valid because they're straight, white and male, I'm saying that their opinion is invalid because it has no logical basis. "I don't see it so its not happening" is fallacious as is, nevermind when there's mountains of evidence to support the contrary. Just ignoring didn't work at any time in the past in any North American or European nation, and if that managed to work for your shining city on a hilltop Venezuela (hint: it didn't) then awesome, but it doesn't work elsewhere.
im not asking you to ignore discrimination, im asking you to not discriminate yourself, for the last time, ignore race, race is completely unimportant
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Rocket Girl said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thats why i never argued this movement aims to opress white people
NuclearKangaroo said:
the difference between the movement for equality of the past and the movements for equality of today is that before, it was a matter of earning back rights for the minorities, nowadays it seems to be about making white straight male feel bad about themselves either directly or indirectly
I don't believe you are making any kind of genuine argument. There's no point in this.
opression implies someone is the opressor, and i dont think this is some way for minorities to get some power or anything silly like that

its just some people trying to find a culprit for their injustices and the injustices of others, is a very simplistic way to see things in my opinion, to blame it all to a group of people, to say one is inherently guilty of something completely outside of one's control

and its easier to rally people for a cause when you create an enemy
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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NuclearKangaroo said:
the difference between the movement for equality of the past and the movements for equality of today is that before, it was a matter of earning back rights for the minorities, nowadays it seems to be about making white straight male feel bad about themselves either directly or indirectly
ok here's two things

1. we do not live in the same universe as the movie "Rmember the Titans" racism (along with the other isms) doesn't just go away if [I/]"yall would stop bee'in racist to each other and be nice"[/I] its more complicated than that, there is nuance and it doesn't always stroke white peoples egos

2. the world does not revolve around you (or more tot he point straight white males) the fact that any criticism at all is often met with "YOUR MAKING ME FEEL BAD" indicates a self cantered outlook

you don't get to have it both ways, you don't get to be progressive while ignoring the fact that a demographic you might belong too has had some pretty dodgy ass attitudes <-that doesn't mean you have to feel bad, feeling bad isn't the same as acknowledging something, if someone's first reaction to someone criticising a thing they like to talk about how it makes them feel bad then they need to grow the fuck up and actually listen
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Vault101 said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
the difference between the movement for equality of the past and the movements for equality of today is that before, it was a matter of earning back rights for the minorities, nowadays it seems to be about making white straight male feel bad about themselves either directly or indirectly
ok here's two things

1. we do not live in the same universe as the movie "Rmember the Titans" racism (along with the other isms) doesn't just go away if [I/]"yall would stop bee'in racist to each other and be nice"[/I] its more complicated than that, there is nuance and it doesn't always stroke white peoples egos
look from where im standing, reciprocating discrimination only makes things more complicated

if you see a hate crime, by all means condemn it, but blame it on the person how commited the crime, not the race, stop, thinking, about, the race


Vault101 said:
2. the world does not revolve around you (or more tot he point straight white males) the fact that any criticism at all is often met with "YOUR MAKING ME FEEL BAD" indicates a self cantered outlook

you don't get to have it both ways, you don't get to be progressive while ignoring the fact that a demographic you might belong too has had some pretty dodgy ass attitudes <-that doesn't mean you have to feel bad, feeling bad isn't the same as acknowledging something, if someone's first reaction to someone criticising a thing they like to talk about how it makes them feel bad then they need to grow the fuck up and actually listen
im not white, im just tired of seeing white people being insulted, tired of people speaking for me and telling me why i should feel oppressed by people that have done no harm to me

people should simply ignore the race of a person, because it seriously has near 0 importance, just concentrate on the person
 

NuclearKangaroo

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MarsAtlas said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
im not asking you to ignore discrimination, im asking you to not discriminate yourself, for the last time, ignore race, race is completely unimportant
Okay, I'm tired, so I'llmakethis short.

Nobody is discriminating against white people by saying that they're benefitted from societal biases based on their race. Same goes for straight people. Same goes for men. Same goes for people without disabilities. Same goes for people who are natives.

Perhaps you're just misusing the word "discrimination" incorrectly. Wikipedia hasyou covered.

"Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".[1] It involves the group's initial reaction or interaction, influencing the individual's actual behavior towards the group or the group leader, restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to another group, leading to the exclusion of the individual or entities based on logical or irrational decision making."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

"treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

building a narrative about how the white people have it so much better is discrimination in my opinion, it creates this feeling that, when something bad happens to a white person, people often think/say "bah, he can suck it up, there are races that have it worse" or worse "he deserved it"

yes ive seen people, some of which call themselves feminists, dismiss male rape, i mean, holy crap thats horrible
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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NuclearKangaroo said:
look from where im standing, reciprocating discrimination only makes things more complicated

if you see a hate crime, by all means condemn it, but blame it on the person how commited the crime, not the race, stop, thinking, about, the race
no one is reciprocating discrimination


[quote/]
im not white, im just tired of seeing white people being insulted, tired of people speaking for me and telling me why i should feel oppressed by people that have done no harm to me[/quote]
it depends how you define "insulted"

[quote/]people should simply ignore the race of a person, because it seriously has near 0 importance, just concentrate on the person[/quote]
but it does matter, alongside so many other factors what race you are will color your outlook

does my opinion on how Black woman feel in todays society have as much weight as an "actual" black woman? no...it will not because I have not experienced what it is to be a black woman
 

thundra

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NuclearKangaroo said:
MarsAtlas said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
im not asking you to ignore discrimination, im asking you to not discriminate yourself, for the last time, ignore race, race is completely unimportant
Okay, I'm tired, so I'llmakethis short.

Nobody is discriminating against white people by saying that they're benefitted from societal biases based on their race. Same goes for straight people. Same goes for men. Same goes for people without disabilities. Same goes for people who are natives.

Perhaps you're just misusing the word "discrimination" incorrectly. Wikipedia hasyou covered.

"Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".[1] It involves the group's initial reaction or interaction, influencing the individual's actual behavior towards the group or the group leader, restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to another group, leading to the exclusion of the individual or entities based on logical or irrational decision making."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

"treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

building a narrative about how the white people have it so much better is discrimination in my opinion, it creates this feeling that, when something bad happens to a white person, people often think/say "bah, he can suck it up, there are races that have it worse" or worse "he deserved it"

yes ive seen people, some of which call themselves feminists, dismiss male rape, i mean, holy crap thats horrible
So gay people who aren't allowed to marry and trans gender people who are forced to be sterilized aren't systematically oppressed but white straight men that rule the country 100% are?
 

NuclearKangaroo

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thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
MarsAtlas said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
im not asking you to ignore discrimination, im asking you to not discriminate yourself, for the last time, ignore race, race is completely unimportant
Okay, I'm tired, so I'llmakethis short.

Nobody is discriminating against white people by saying that they're benefitted from societal biases based on their race. Same goes for straight people. Same goes for men. Same goes for people without disabilities. Same goes for people who are natives.

Perhaps you're just misusing the word "discrimination" incorrectly. Wikipedia hasyou covered.

"Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".[1] It involves the group's initial reaction or interaction, influencing the individual's actual behavior towards the group or the group leader, restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to another group, leading to the exclusion of the individual or entities based on logical or irrational decision making."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

"treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

building a narrative about how the white people have it so much better is discrimination in my opinion, it creates this feeling that, when something bad happens to a white person, people often think/say "bah, he can suck it up, there are races that have it worse" or worse "he deserved it"

yes ive seen people, some of which call themselves feminists, dismiss male rape, i mean, holy crap thats horrible
So gay people who aren't allowed to marry and trans gender people who are forced to be sterilized aren't systematically oppressed but white straight men that rule the country 100% are?
werent you done with me?

anyways for the 10000th time, condemn hate actions, but stop giving importance to things that arent importance, the moment we stop caring about race, gender and sexual orientation is the moemnt we will all be truthly equal
 

thundra

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NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
MarsAtlas said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
im not asking you to ignore discrimination, im asking you to not discriminate yourself, for the last time, ignore race, race is completely unimportant
Okay, I'm tired, so I'llmakethis short.

Nobody is discriminating against white people by saying that they're benefitted from societal biases based on their race. Same goes for straight people. Same goes for men. Same goes for people without disabilities. Same goes for people who are natives.

Perhaps you're just misusing the word "discrimination" incorrectly. Wikipedia hasyou covered.

"Discrimination is action that denies social participation or human rights to categories of people based on prejudice. This includes treatment of an individual or group based on their actual or perceived membership in a certain group or social category, "in a way that is worse than the way people are usually treated".[1] It involves the group's initial reaction or interaction, influencing the individual's actual behavior towards the group or the group leader, restricting members of one group from opportunities or privileges that are available to another group, leading to the exclusion of the individual or entities based on logical or irrational decision making."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

"treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit"

building a narrative about how the white people have it so much better is discrimination in my opinion, it creates this feeling that, when something bad happens to a white person, people often think/say "bah, he can suck it up, there are races that have it worse" or worse "he deserved it"

yes ive seen people, some of which call themselves feminists, dismiss male rape, i mean, holy crap thats horrible
So gay people who aren't allowed to marry and trans gender people who are forced to be sterilized aren't systematically oppressed but white straight men that rule the country 100% are?
werent you done with me?

anyways for the 10000th time, condemn hate actions, but stop giving importance to things that arent importance, the moment we stop caring about race, gender and sexual orientation is the moemnt we will all be truthly equal
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Vault101 said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
look from where im standing, reciprocating discrimination only makes things more complicated

if you see a hate crime, by all means condemn it, but blame it on the person how commited the crime, not the race, stop, thinking, about, the race
no one is reciprocating discrimination


[quote/]
im not white, im just tired of seeing white people being insulted, tired of people speaking for me and telling me why i should feel oppressed by people that have done no harm to me
it depends how you define "insulted"

[quote/]people should simply ignore the race of a person, because it seriously has near 0 importance, just concentrate on the person[/quote]
but it does matter, alongside so many other factors what race you are will color your outlook

does my opinion on how Black woman feel in todays society have as much weight as an "actual" black woman? no...it will not because I have not experienced what it is to be a black woman[/quote]

well when people get told their opinion doesnt matter because they are white straight males i think thats insulting, atleast i would find it insulting if someone told me my opinion doesnt matter because im a straight latino male

ok, you got a one in a lifetime chance to ask a latino who he feels about this discrimination munbo jumbo, i dont care, stop hitting yourself agaisnt the wall and stop trying to convince other white people hitting yourself agaisnt the wall is such a nice idea

you have no control over what your ancestors did, you only have control over yourself and your actions, and if you arent intolerant you have nothing to be ashamed of

the reason you cant know how a black woman feels in todays society is not because you arent black and a woman, its because you are not THAT black woman, you could be black and a woman and still dont know how she feels, the best you can hope is let your empathy tell you how she MIGHT feel
 

NuclearKangaroo

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thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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NuclearKangaroo said:
well when people get told their opinion doesnt matter because they are white straight males i think thats insulting, atleast i would find it insulting if someone told me my opinion doesnt matter because im a straight latino male
weather or not I personally think their opinion "matters" depends on what they are saying, a rich guy telling poor people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps has probably got a skewed perspective

[quote/]ok, you got a one in a lifetime chance to ask a latino who he feels about this discrimination munbo jumbo, i dont care, stop hitting yourself agaisnt the wall and stop trying to convince other white people hitting yourself agaisnt the wall is such a nice idea[/quote]
well that's good then, I ain't gonna tell you to feel otherwise

[quote/]you have no control over what your ancestors did, you only have control over yourself and your actions, and if you arent intolerant you have nothing to be ashamed of[/quote]did you read what I wrote? I don't feel "ashamed" about [I/]shit[/I]

[quote/]the reason you cant know how a black woman feels in todays society is not because you arent black and a woman, its because you are not THAT black woman, you could be black and a woman and still dont know how she feels, the best you can hope is let your empathy tell you how she MIGHT feel[/quote]
you're right, black women are individuals that might think different things.....[b/]but I don't have anything to say in that conversation[/b] what could I say?
 

thundra

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NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
That is not how it works. Those who are in power has all the power. There is reason why minority is called minority they have no voice. I do not have power to change entire country of over 5 million population minds about trans people that believes they are scum of the earth and gross i have to be in constant fear of real hate crimes unlike holy untouchble straight white people
 

NuclearKangaroo

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thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
That is not how it works. Those who are in power has all the power. There is reason why minority is called minority they have no voice. I do not have power to change entire country of over 5 million population minds of trans people that believes they are scum of the earth and gross i have to be in constant fear of real hate crimes unlike holy untouchble straight white people
and why would hate solve all that? dont you think that by acting rational and camly, people are more likely to accept you? to show empathy towards you? is not easy, but the hard route is often the best

defend yourself agaisnt the people who offend you, to the race to which they belong
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Vault101 said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
well when people get told their opinion doesnt matter because they are white straight males i think thats insulting, atleast i would find it insulting if someone told me my opinion doesnt matter because im a straight latino male
weather or not I personally think their opinion "matters" depends on what they are saying, a rich guy telling poor people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps has probably got a skewed perspective
well ive seen people dismiss white opinions even regarding things white people can freely opine on

Vault101 said:
[quote/]ok, you got a one in a lifetime chance to ask a latino who he feels about this discrimination munbo jumbo, i dont care, stop hitting yourself agaisnt the wall and stop trying to convince other white people hitting yourself agaisnt the wall is such a nice idea
well that's good then, I ain't gonna tell you to feel otherwise [/quote]

yup, ill let you know if i feel any different

Vault101 said:
[quote/]you have no control over what your ancestors did, you only have control over yourself and your actions, and if you arent intolerant you have nothing to be ashamed of
did you read what I wrote? I don't feel "ashamed" about [I/]shit[/I] [/quote]

ok good


Vault101 said:
[quote/]the reason you cant know how a black woman feels in todays society is not because you arent black and a woman, its because you are not THAT black woman, you could be black and a woman and still dont know how she feels, the best you can hope is let your empathy tell you how she MIGHT feel
you're right, black women are individuals that might think different things.....[b/]but I don't have anything to say in that conversation[/b] what could I say?[/quote]

all i can think of is, "i feel bad you feel bad, is there anything i can do to help?"
 

thundra

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NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
That is not how it works. Those who are in power has all the power. There is reason why minority is called minority they have no voice. I do not have power to change entire country of over 5 million population minds of trans people that believes they are scum of the earth and gross i have to be in constant fear of real hate crimes unlike holy untouchble straight white people
and why would hate solve all that? dont you think that by acting rational and camly, people are more likely to accept you? to show empathy towards you? is not easy, but the hard route is often the best

defend yourself agaisnt the people who offend you, to the race to which they belong
I'm not hating anyone. But democracy works only for those who are in power everyone else gets thrown under a bus your believe that modern world is fair and just is juvenile at best and downright naive
 

NuclearKangaroo

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thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
That is not how it works. Those who are in power has all the power. There is reason why minority is called minority they have no voice. I do not have power to change entire country of over 5 million population minds of trans people that believes they are scum of the earth and gross i have to be in constant fear of real hate crimes unlike holy untouchble straight white people
and why would hate solve all that? dont you think that by acting rational and camly, people are more likely to accept you? to show empathy towards you? is not easy, but the hard route is often the best

defend yourself agaisnt the people who offend you, to the race to which they belong
I'm not hating anyone. But democracy works only for those who are in power everyone else gets thrown under a bus your believe that modern world is fair and just is juvenile at best and downright naive
i dont agree, the general direction mankind is moving towards is acceptance and tolerance, we live in an outrageously tolerant world compared to previous ages, and i have no reason to believe it wont get better, we should simply stay on course

look one of the big advantages of democracy, that unfortunately is slowly disappearign where i live, is that everyone can express their opinion freely, if you feel oppressed state your points, make fair demands, and let people know you are person just like them and deserve the same treatment

democracy aint perfect, but it sure as hell beats the alternatives
 

thundra

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NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
thundra said:
People aren't equal anywhere i'm being forced to do something that will cut my future generations ever exciting, nor can i ever marry someone in the future because of my gender identity. My country isn't your utopian Yugoslavia you think is so great here is little hint its not free from racism, homophobia or transphobia. Grow up
if you think people are not being treated equally, why dont you start by yourself, treat everyone equally regardless of his/her race/gender/sexual orientation and critize others who dont, its the best way to make a difference
That is not how it works. Those who are in power has all the power. There is reason why minority is called minority they have no voice. I do not have power to change entire country of over 5 million population minds of trans people that believes they are scum of the earth and gross i have to be in constant fear of real hate crimes unlike holy untouchble straight white people
and why would hate solve all that? dont you think that by acting rational and camly, people are more likely to accept you? to show empathy towards you? is not easy, but the hard route is often the best

defend yourself agaisnt the people who offend you, to the race to which they belong
I'm not hating anyone. But democracy works only for those who are in power everyone else gets thrown under a bus your believe that modern world is fair and just is juvenile at best and downright naive
i dont agree, the general direction mankind is moving towards is acceptance and tolerance, we live in an outrageously tolerant world compared to previous ages, and i have no reason to believe it wont get better, we should simply stay on course

look one of the big advantages of democracy, that unfortunately is slowly disappearign where i live, is that everyone can express their opinion freely, if you feel oppressed state your points, make fair demands, and let people know you are person just like them and deserve the same treatment

democracy aint perfect, but it sure as hell beats the alternatives
You can't be that naive can you. Its kinda cute but no sorry thats not reality.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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NuclearKangaroo said:
Vault101 said:
you're right, black women are individuals that might think different things.....[b/]but I don't have anything to say in that conversation[/b] what could I say?
all i can think of is, "i feel bad you feel bad, is there anything i can do to help?"
acknowledging something is not the same as feeling "bad about" it...wanna have a discussion on how modern society views black women? don't ask me

again it goes back to what I was saying before, its kind of the same borderline arrogant mentality that asks why people need their own "spaces" its because the mainstream is a space that caters to one specific demographic,

[quote/]
and why would hate solve all that? dont you think that by acting rational and camly, people are more likely to accept you? to show empathy towards you? is not easy, but the hard route is often the best
[/quote]

do they want them to act rationally or calmly? or do they want them to stroke their egos? because some people aren't happy with anything but the latter