The misinterpretation of evolution

[cdstephens]

Creationism is the religious belief[1] that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being."

It is creationism.
Creationism doesnt dictate, "Poof humans existed". It dictates that through the supernatural beings power, humans exist, even if its through evolution.

Er, no. If you believe that a supernatural power used evolution to make humans you belief in Theistic Evolution. As per the very wikipedia article you quoted, Creationism is defined by its opposition to evolutionary theory.

Ooo, thanks for that link, I've been trying to find a concise term that describes my point of view for a while now to avoid explaining to people in long paragraphs my beliefs.

 

[weker]

There is no reason to insult him, please remain civil or you could get targeted by the mods.

>implying that's not how I always leave the forum for the night

Well I can't say you will be missed if that is your attitude sadly and I bid you adieu from me and my fellow Escapists

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Kouriichi, I think the word for what you are is "deist". Someone who believes in a supernatural creator, but not necessarily (in fact almost certainly not) the one from any particular religion.

But the point I and others have been trying to make is that, low as the chances of life (especially life as advanced as humans) arising on any planet anywhere might be, even a very small chance is a chance and there is nothing strange about it happening. It may have been very unlikely, but the universe is a very big place and it was as likely to happen here on Earth as anywhere else. We humans are the product of it happening, so it's no coincidence whatsoever that it happens where we happen to be, any more than it's a coincidence that if you design and build a car you end up with a car (sorry for the potentially confusing "design" analogy).

Again, the anthropic argument: it must have happened because here we are.

 

[kouriichi]

I believe we were created by something beyond our comprehension.

I could call it "god" just as much as i could call it "fate", "luck", "metaphysical-aliens", or "The flying spaghetti monster".

The chances of our planet being in perfect distance of the sun to have constant liquid water on the surface, have life develop on it from thoughtless chains of atoms, to develop the perfect oxygen atmosphere and then on top of that, for us to NOT be destroyed by one of the countless (literally countless) meteors hurling through space is beyond the realm of "just happening".

And Creationism isnt the belief it happened in a matter of days. Its just that a supernatural being started it. And yes, "evolution" did most of the work after the foundation was laid.

Life gets wiped out pretty commonly on earth, and it's 'perfect oxygen levels' haven't always been here, only after a major extinction. The point is that the earth isn't and wasn't made for our perfect standards. It's literally a coincidence that the conditions were right for life to begin and adapt to the constant hazards. Do you really think that in the universe, with countless galaxies, unthinkable amounts of stars and mind-boggling amounts of planets that there wouldn't be at least one planet with the right requirements for life to evolve from nothing more than a chain of acids?

Lol. I mean for us to exist.
Yes, its all scientifically explainable.
But that doesnt make it anyless random. What are the chances we, HUMANS sit here to day?
The chances of life existing on a planet alone are so astronomical its not even worth knowing.

Its not that it all happened. Its that it all happened perfectly, for us to exist. If the planet were 10 degrees hotter when the protoplasmic creatures were first forming, we might not even exist. The evolution of them could be so radically different we wouldnt even resemble humans.

The "coincidence" of it all happening one after another after another for billions of years is what makes it so..... unbelievable. That everything is happened the way it should for us to be here now.

We exist BECAUSE of those circumstances, not in spite of them. True, it is random that they were like that, and the chances actually are higher than you'd think, but if they hadn't been like that we wouldn't be here to think about it.

Actually, theyre probably WORSE then i think. xD
What are the chances a planet is in the perfect spot to have liquid water without it instantly evaporating?
Now what are the chances that life forms on that planet?
Now what are the chances that something horribly catastrophic doesnt happen to said planet and all the life on it?

Yes, we exist because of those circumstances. I wont argue that. But i believe the chance of it happening is just TO random xD

If those things didn't happen, we wouldn't observe those things happening because we wouldn't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

It's only seen convenient because those are the requirements for us to exist.

Lol.
Like i said. Im not going do argue with any science here, because my belief isnt scientific xD
I believe its just to much to happen randomly.
Even if i were there to sit and watch it all happen, i would still call it unbelievable. Because its so much chance to happen, i cant believe it.

I can understand it, but that doesnt make it any less amazing xD

I CANT BELIEVE IT I CANT BELIEVE IT.

I'm done here.

Exactly xD I CANT BELIEVE IT. Im not saying my supernatural being EXISTS and DICTATES EVERYTHING.
Im saying i personally, cant believe it. We've been arguing that for whats going to 20 minutes.

And so we reach an obvious conclusion: the creationist believes in his way because he's too fucking braindead to comprehend the other one.

No. I comprehend yours. xD
But its just to fantastic TO ME. I would personally believe in the tooth fairy before i believe "everything thats ever happened to create you has happened because of COMPLETE chance, all happening perfectly."

And not all creationists think like this. We all have our own beliefs You believe that everything can happen just right to make us humans, and i believe differently.

 

[weker]

"Creationism is the religious belief[1] that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being."

It is creationism.
Creationism doesnt dictate, "Poof humans existed". It dictates that through the supernatural beings power, humans exist, even if its through evolution.

Can you find a non Wikipedia based quote please.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html
xD
Creationism isnt just "OMG GOD MADE IT".
Creationism is viewed as a multitude of different beliefs.

I dont believe in the bible. So i cant believe god mad everything.
Im a creationist because i believe something we cant comprehend helped the universe along.

A Dictionary based quote I meant
While I did know that Creationist is a broad term calling yourself wrong I believe is incorrect, as there should be a form of sub group which refers to you correctly.

BTW best to leave Levski7 to himself XD

 

[Hides His Eyes]

There is no reason to insult him, please remain civil or you could get targeted by the mods.

>implying that's not how I always leave the forum for the night

Well I can't say you will be missed if that is your attitude sadly and I bid you adieu from me and my fellow Escapists

Why was he trying to get banned? That was really odd.

 

[kouriichi]

Kouriichi, I think the word for what you are is "deist". Someone who believes in a supernatural creator, but not necessarily (in fact almost certainly not) the one from any particular religion.

But the point I and others have been trying to make is that, low as the chances of life (especially life as advanced as humans) arising on any planet anywhere might be, even a very small chance is a chance and there is nothing strange about it happening. It may have been very unlikely, but the universe is a very big place and it was as likely to happen here on Earth as anywhere else. We humans are the product of it happening, so it's no coincidence whatsoever that it happens where we happen to be, any more than it's a coincidence that if you design and build a car you end up with a car (sorry for the potentially confusing "design" analogy).

Again, the anthropic argument: it must have happened because here we are.

>.<
No, im not a Deist.
Because i believe that the supernatural power does take part in the affairs of the universe.

For us to exist, i believe that the supernatural power had to have a hand in all the events leading UP to where we are as a species.

 

[Asita]

>.<
No, im not a Deist.
Because i believe that the supernatural power does take part in the affairs of the universe.

For us to exist, i believe that the supernatural power had to have a hand in all the events leading UP to where we are as a species.

Again, that's Theistic Evolution, not Creationism.

 

[kouriichi]

"Creationism is the religious belief[1] that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being."

It is creationism.
Creationism doesnt dictate, "Poof humans existed". It dictates that through the supernatural beings power, humans exist, even if its through evolution.

Can you find a non Wikipedia based quote please.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html
xD
Creationism isnt just "OMG GOD MADE IT".
Creationism is viewed as a multitude of different beliefs.

I dont believe in the bible. So i cant believe god mad everything.
Im a creationist because i believe something we cant comprehend helped the universe along.

A Dictionary based quote I meant
While I did know that Creationist is a broad term calling yourself wrong I believe is incorrect, as there should be a form of sub group which refers to you correctly.

xD thats the thing.
Ive looked.
I use the term "Creationist" because its the closest term to what i believe.
As someone pointed out, i could be "Deist", but that would require that i believe the person who created the universe had NO HAND what so ever in the creation of human kind.

Where as i believe that the supernatural being helped create life, protect and effect the outcome of what that life would be.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Kouriichi, I think the word for what you are is "deist". Someone who believes in a supernatural creator, but not necessarily (in fact almost certainly not) the one from any particular religion.

But the point I and others have been trying to make is that, low as the chances of life (especially life as advanced as humans) arising on any planet anywhere might be, even a very small chance is a chance and there is nothing strange about it happening. It may have been very unlikely, but the universe is a very big place and it was as likely to happen here on Earth as anywhere else. We humans are the product of it happening, so it's no coincidence whatsoever that it happens where we happen to be, any more than it's a coincidence that if you design and build a car you end up with a car (sorry for the potentially confusing "design" analogy).

Again, the anthropic argument: it must have happened because here we are.

>.<
No, im not a Deist.
Because i believe that the supernatural power does take part in the affairs of the universe.

For us to exist, i believe that the supernatural power had to have a hand in all the events leading UP to where we are as a species.

Oh ok, I was forgetting about the "indifferent" aspect of deism.

But I still genuinely don't see how you've reached your conclusion. I totally agree that it's amazing to think that we are the result of a very unlikely series of occurrences, but there's no reason to think it's not the case.

Also, hopefully without getting too far into the dangerous territory of full-on theo-debate... if we were created by a being, where did that being come from?

 

[weker]

xD thats the thing.
Ive looked.
I use the term "Creationist" because its the closest term to what i believe.
As someone pointed out, i could be "Deist", but that would require that i believe the person who created the universe had NO HAND what so ever in the creation of human kind.

Where as i believe that the supernatural being helped create life, protect and effect the outcome of what that life would be.

I would recommend not referring to yourself as such or these heated debates will arrive XD

 

[Flac00]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

No, evolution isnt so much the "intelligent" side, as it is the "knowledgeable" side.
((I know people who you would call "intelligent", but they cant even change a flat tire))

And personally, i believe in creationism. But the thing is, Evolution is a fact. Why do you think the common cold is such a problem? Because its constantly evolving. Its always changing its form c. We can never cure it, because of its rapid evolution.

Or the experiment of increasing the lifespan of a fly. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/Longevity_and_Genetics

Evolution is one of the few things we can actively PROVE. xD

So do you think that God created the entire universe within a matter of days, including all life, or do you hold a more intelligent design belief with God creating the universe but evolution doing most of the "work"?

Not really "god".
I believe we were created by something beyond our comprehension.

I could call it "god" just as much as i could call it "fate", "luck", "metaphysical-aliens", or "The flying spaghetti monster".

The chances of our planet being in perfect distance of the sun to have constant liquid water on the surface, have life develop on it from thoughtless chains of atoms, to develop the perfect oxygen atmosphere and then on top of that, for us to NOT be destroyed by one of the countless (literally countless) meteors hurling through space is beyond the realm of "just happening".

And Creationism isnt the belief it happened in a matter of days. Its just that a supernatural being started it. And yes, "evolution" did most of the work after the foundation was laid.

Thinking that is fine, I have no objections to that. This is mostly because evolution starts after the creation of life. Therefore Creationism has free reign over that area. However, that still doesn't make Creationism a science and thats the big point.

Evolution includes the creation of life. How the hell do you think it happened without it?

Evolution doesn't explain how life began though. It doesn't focus on that. Instead it focuses on what happened after that moment of the existence of life on Earth. Just the same as how relativity was not created to explain how the universe was born.

 

[cdstephens]

Let me wrap this whole thing up in burritos. (thats right, im gunna wrap it like a burrito, with burritos.)

Sheep are Stupid.
Sheep are part of a flock. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its a Murder of Sheep))
The sheep will listen to whatever the dogs bark loudest. This is learned from an early age, because of the sheep doesnt listen, they get bit.
The dogs like to keep order, and control the flock ((or murder)) of sheep. So they bark loudly.

Now if you didnt get that analogy, let me explain it.

People are stupid.
People are part of religions. ((Unless theyre black sheep. Then its Atheism))
The people will listen to whatever their leaders/parents/priests ideas are. This is learned from an early age, because of the person doesnt listen, they get punished.
The leaders/parents/priests like to keep order, and control the people. So they force their ideas.

Roughly 50% of Americans dont believe in evolution.
Roughly 76% of Americans identify themselves as christian.
Christians are told from an early age, "God made man".
Because they are "brainwashed" (for lack of a better term) to believe what is RIGHT and WRONG, they never read in depth "theories" like Evolution.
Yes, this means many Christians are able to see past their "brainwashing" (again, for lack of a better term), but it also means many are blind, and dont WANT to see past it.

See how it all fits together? Most people who dont believe in evolution, are Christians. Anyone else is well.... an idiot. (Not in the insulting way. I mean "uneducated". And not in a bad way)
Because the large majority of people were told from childhood, "God is always right, never question him, he made the world and everyone on it", they dont believe in evolution.

Im not saying religion is bad. But there is a pretty large correlation between Religion, and the halt of scientific progress.

Please note: I am not saying anyone else has to believe this. This is just my belief. This is MY take on the situation and reason behind evolution being such a misinterpreted subject. If i offended you, sorry. It was not my intention.

So your belief is that Evolution is obviously the "intelligent" side.

Interesting, though I know numerous intelligent Christians that are far more capable than either of us and they wholeheartedly explain, and defend Creationism.

No, evolution isnt so much the "intelligent" side, as it is the "knowledgeable" side.
((I know people who you would call "intelligent", but they cant even change a flat tire))

And personally, i believe in creationism. But the thing is, Evolution is a fact. Why do you think the common cold is such a problem? Because its constantly evolving. Its always changing its form c. We can never cure it, because of its rapid evolution.

Or the experiment of increasing the lifespan of a fly. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/Longevity_and_Genetics

Evolution is one of the few things we can actively PROVE. xD

So do you think that God created the entire universe within a matter of days, including all life, or do you hold a more intelligent design belief with God creating the universe but evolution doing most of the "work"?

Not really "god".
I believe we were created by something beyond our comprehension.

I could call it "god" just as much as i could call it "fate", "luck", "metaphysical-aliens", or "The flying spaghetti monster".

The chances of our planet being in perfect distance of the sun to have constant liquid water on the surface, have life develop on it from thoughtless chains of atoms, to develop the perfect oxygen atmosphere and then on top of that, for us to NOT be destroyed by one of the countless (literally countless) meteors hurling through space is beyond the realm of "just happening".

And Creationism isnt the belief it happened in a matter of days. Its just that a supernatural being started it. And yes, "evolution" did most of the work after the foundation was laid.

Thinking that is fine, I have no objections to that. This is mostly because evolution starts after the creation of life. Therefore Creationism has free reign over that area. However, that still doesn't make Creationism a science and thats the big point.

Evolution includes the creation of life. How the hell do you think it happened without it?

Evolution doesn't explain how life began though. It doesn't focus on that. Instead it focuses on what happened after that moment of the existence of life on Earth. Just the same as how relativity was not created to explain how the universe was born.

I think abiogenesis is the field that tries to explain how life came about.

 

[psychodynamica]

First of all, your run on sentences make an extremely incoherent argument. Second of all, you seem to have some of your facts bass-ackwards. You seem to believe that evolution was the lead idea the whole time, and that these filthy newcomers of Intelligetn Design are invading. It is actually quite the opposite. Evolution is an idea that is barely even a hundred years old, while Creationism has had free reign for thousands of years.

I think that it is fair to say that you seem to need to brush up on some things first before you go crying wolf on other people. Also, it is fair that if one idea is taught in the classroom, then another idea must be taught as well. People need to see all of the choices, and then decide for themselves what they want to believe is true. There is no reasone why Creationism nor evolution can be taught simulataneously.

Wait, an idea being around a long time has absolutely no bearing in any way to it's validity, secondly to act as if creation and evolution are both as educationally valid as one another is like saying that if we must teach kids about dinosaurs, we should have to teach them about dragons too. truth is not a choice, facts are not a choice and to overtly lie in the faces of the coming generations by telling them 'god did it' and having the only explanation be 'This really old book says so' would be ethically and morally wrong.

sorry if this seems like a rant, i understand where you are coming from, but for god sake (sorry) please stop trying to make intelligent design seem in anyway scientific. it isn't. also as a side not, when OP mentioned creationism it was simply so he could point out that Intelligent design isn't a theory, it's a rebranding.

Yours Sincerely
The Smoking Fox.

 

[Varitel]

The title of the thread is "The misinterpretation of evolution". In the original post, you mention that people are using misinterpretations and misconceptions of evolution to try and discredit it. You do then bring to light a few examples of misinterpretations of evolution, but not one that actually applies in the sense of it being used to discredit evolution. Therefore, I really don't know what the topic actually is, but there seems to be a lot of discussion about personal beliefs. That said, I believe in evolution. However, I also believe that evolution and creationism are NOT mutually exclusive.

Captcha had an omega and a beta in it. Crazy!

 

[Flac00]

Is it because of the rise of Creationism and Intelligent design (which are the same exact thing)

Are they? If I were you, I'd make sure before making such statements as to avoid coming across as ignorant as those I'm condemning. Just saying.

I am very sure in fact. Creationism and Intelligent Design are the same thing. Creationism is the idea that every living creature was created by some supernatural being (god in most cases). Intelligent Design is the idea that every living creature was created by some intelligent being (both supernatural and probably god). What few differences between them are small and meaningless.

 

[kouriichi]

Kouriichi, I think the word for what you are is "deist". Someone who believes in a supernatural creator, but not necessarily (in fact almost certainly not) the one from any particular religion.

But the point I and others have been trying to make is that, low as the chances of life (especially life as advanced as humans) arising on any planet anywhere might be, even a very small chance is a chance and there is nothing strange about it happening. It may have been very unlikely, but the universe is a very big place and it was as likely to happen here on Earth as anywhere else. We humans are the product of it happening, so it's no coincidence whatsoever that it happens where we happen to be, any more than it's a coincidence that if you design and build a car you end up with a car (sorry for the potentially confusing "design" analogy).

Again, the anthropic argument: it must have happened because here we are.

>.<
No, im not a Deist.
Because i believe that the supernatural power does take part in the affairs of the universe.

For us to exist, i believe that the supernatural power had to have a hand in all the events leading UP to where we are as a species.

Oh ok, I was forgetting about the "indifferent" aspect of deism.

But I still genuinely don't see how you've reached your conclusion. I totally agree that it's amazing to think that we are the result of a very unlikely series of occurrences, but there's no reason to think it's not the case.

Also, hopefully without getting too far into the dangerous territory of full-on theo-debate... if we were created by a being, where did that being come from?

I dont believe so much that it "came from somewhere".
I kinda believe "its part of this". (this being everything)
Kind of like Darkmatter. Its just there.

 

[Flac00]

This thread is a perfect example of why I have a hard time believing in evolution- most of you can't even agree on what we're supposed to believe!

I was raised as a Christian and still believe all that stuff but I've seen more and more evidence that points to evolution being something that may have happened. One thing I've never understood is why people don't believe God could have guided evolution; or at least played a part in it.

Thats science for you. Lots of angry, and somewhat intelligent people arguing for the better part of 2 millennia over the facts of life. Its both brilliant and stupid at the same time. Still, most of us are pretty stupid in comparison to the real scientists in the mix of the full debate. I'd advise watching a movie called "A Flock of Dodos". It does a good job at summing things up.

 

[Harlief]

Evolution is obviously true, and creationism is obviously true.
Anyone who doesn't juxtapose them is an ignoramous.

Creationism is anything but obviously true. It is merely conjecture.
In the words of Tim Minchin: "Science adjusts its views based on what's observed; faith is the denial of evidence so that belief can be preserved."

Also, I love the way you misspelled ignoramus. Pure irony.