The Most Dangerous Woman in Videogames - Anita Sarkeesian

KillMeOnceMore

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I don't think what Anita is saying is as revolutionary or revelation filled as she sometimes seems to think it is. However, her presence and impact absolutely are both of those things just thanks to the reaction alone.

I salute her bravery more than her insight and I think she will eventually make a difference for the better.
 

SoulChaserJ

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I'm sick of seeing this topic. I don't like this lady, I don't like what she has to say and I certainly don't like how most of her followers are blind to the BS. I have a very simple way to resolve this. If you don't like what's currently being offered in games. Make your own...better still leave that to the pros. What is it that would make you happy Ms Sarkeesian? Green Square A hovers over to Yellow Square B and gives it a hug? Or would you like a strong female lead character that wears sensible clothes and the primary tenet of the game doesn't rely on the main character being female? Because we have games like that. Beyond Good and Evil and Portal being probably the biggest named of them. You can go beyond the titles and even look at specific characters like Alyx Vance, Clementine(really any female cast member of The Walking Dead), and the aforementioned Jade and Chell to see strong characters.

My point being rather than merely identify a problem then waste well over 100k of money given in good faith. Why not use the current status to effect change? Oh that's right, because she doesn't want change. She wants the controversy to continue so that she can continue to be paid (by academic institutions no less) for having a jaded opinion on the world of gaming.
 

DonTsetsi

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Goliath100 said:
DonTsetsi said:
Goliath100 said:
Karadalis said:
The problem here is that her most recent videos show no footage of her actually playing any game or showing any footage that she herselfe recorded...
What? You want her to do a let's play? Exactly how much do someone need to experience of something before judging?
Well... some, at least.
"Some" is what amount?
Enough to be able to say she is an expert. Those videos are meant to be an academic resource. The research she did is slim to none, she started from a conclusion and she makes unfounded assumptions in every video. She's commenting on games she hasn't played, without having seen more than a few cutscenes, she often misrepresents the material she is showing.
 

DaViller

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PunkRex said:
DaViller said:
Whats wrong with wonder pink?
That was my first thought too, I havn't got around to playing Wonder 101 yet but thats due to money restraints not lack of wanting to.

I think it may be one of those cases of looking to into it but it's not like it's gonna hurt anyone by simply asking that question. Wonder 101, from what i've seen, has alot of cliched character designs to make them identifiable to the culture they belong to, in Pinks case the eastern european super petite gymnast, but I don't necessarily see it as bad, I havn't played it yet so I can't really say.

One thing similar to this i've noticed is the way Japan may perceive Europeans after playing pokemon Y. Don't get me wrong, the design of the buildings and the war torn history is really great but there seems to be an excess of pompous, rich ass, nobility running around. I mean if theres one cliche I don't mind being part of it's one that calls me a vistorian pimp and I know there's been ass holes in pokemon games before and that Europe does indeed have nobles still present, just something I noticed... as well as all the tourists in the game... that I can definatly agree with.
Wonder pink is a spoiled rich girl (the "sweet sixteen" kind) with anger issues. Basically an eastern europian version of paris hilton. I just find it a bit odd to point her out and say "dont make characters like this". Thats sounds rather silly to me, she is neither supposed to be a role model or to represent women as a whole so im thinking "why the fuck not?".
 

Goliath100

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DonTsetsi said:
... She's commenting on games she hasn't played, without having seen more than a few cutscenes...
+ probably reading a plot summary, but why is this not enough...
The Dubya said:
...To understand the basic context of the game situations she presents...
 

Karadalis

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Goliath100 said:
Karadalis said:
The problem here is that her most recent videos show no footage of her actually playing any game or showing any footage that she herselfe recorded...
What? You want her to do a let's play? Exactly how much do someone need to experience of something before judging?
Did you really just say that a person does not need to actually research a topic to judge it.. and thus not be called out for it?

I want her to use her own footage, you know... the reason she got these 160.000 dollars? It has been what? A year now?

How many vids has she produced? 3?

And she didnt even use her own footage?

WHAT DID SHE SPEND ALL THIS TIME ON XD ? Clearly not on production value or research thats for sure.

Clearly it also wasnt playing the games or else she would have footage to present that she recorded herself.

Infact not a single video exists where she herselfe plays video games or shows any understanding or knowledge of said games that isnt ripped straight out of TV tropes.

You know what... instead of her boring ass videos.. a lets play would have been perfect!

A lets play of a game where she actually gets to live commentate on the tropes she encounters in said game and only when she encounters them.

Going into a game totaly unbiased and with no former knowledge kept for the text blurb on the back of the DVD case and cover.

That would have been a million times more relevant then her lousy cheap videos that are nothing more then a checklist of TV tropes that everybody who actually plays games allready knows.

And yes you have to actually spend time playing games if you want to judge them from an academic standpoint like she keeps claiming over and over again.
 

Verlander

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All I see it butthurt little boys who don't like their toys criticised.

Her videos are informative, and interesting. She's brought serious game theory and criticism into the mainstream mindset. She's challenging a real issue (especially with ethnicity).

The portrayal of women in games embarrasses me. I can honestly say that it has put me off titles, even if I was enjoying the game before. Anything that stops laziness is a good thing in my book.
 

nogitsune

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I don't like Sarkeesian's brand of Feminism, I believe she has the right, like us all to say what she want but I do think her views are flawed and toxic. The article basically tells me she's preaching to the choir and from my experience with her works, you have to be in the choir or you are a horrible person. I don't condone those that tried to silence her, they are doing the same thing she is but perhaps worse.

My big problem is that Anita's feminism is negative, it tells us all objetification is bad and we must stop it. She forgets one great thing that fiction can do is allow us to enjoy things that are taboo or even unethical without harming anyone. It's one thing to gaze with lust at Felicia from Darkstalkers and another to gaze at the cute girl at the coffee shop. The latter would make the girl uncomfortable and therefore do harm but it doesn't matter how much one stares at the videogame character, heck it doesn't matter if he stated mouth open with his tongue hanging out. They are two different things and to say they're the same is to show an ignorance to the difference of fantasy and reality, some that most people can do even when they're children.

I have no problem with reasonable feminism, as humans we deserve equal rights. But free speech is one of those rights and art should exist even if it's offensive. People don't have to buy the games with elements that they don't approve of, but they shouldn't crusade to shame those that like art that they don't approve of, that can only lead to censorship, perhaps not the law but one of social norms or gets ignored and nothing changes.

I think that in the end Sarkeesian isn't doing anything good with her Trope vs. Women series. It would do a lot more good if she and other feminists with concerns with gaming take a positive role, promoting games that they find good portrayals of women instead of attacking games and art they don't like.
 

LetalisK

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Ragsnstitches said:
There is no subversion in that trailer. It's "look at this hot girl. Oh my god she's nekkid, isn't she hot. Oooh, did you catch that bit of underboob?" then "Oh look at our cleverness, she isn't just some piece of eye candy, she's actually a super powerful warrior with skills".
And completely dropped any appeal to sexuality after the reveal. It went from sexiness with bra, panties, and a shower to "Psyche, actually we're going to fuck some shit up" with combat boots, jacket, and a shit load of weapons. It's the very definition of the subversion type of ad. Though, I guess if a gun nut who literally gets their rocks off to machine guns was watching this, then it was a consistent theme throughout.

And on that point, over half the fucking video is spend watching a girl getting dressed and being awfully sultry for someone who just got out of bed.
It's called a setup.

But don't talk bullshit.
You should take your own advice.
 

Karadalis

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Verlander said:
All I see it butthurt little boys who don't like their toys criticised.

Her videos are informative, and interesting. She's brought serious game theory and criticism into the mainstream mindset. She's challenging a real issue (especially with ethnicity).

The portrayal of women in games embarrasses me. I can honestly say that it has put me off titles, even if I was enjoying the game before. Anything that stops laziness is a good thing in my book.
Yeah.. thats like.. your opinion man(or woman).

Her videos are boring and bland, poorly researched and only impressive for those that have no idea about gaming in the first place. She has put absolutely no work into these videos and only spouts out stuff that her particular niche of audience wants to hear. Sadly for the rest of gamerkind this only adds another stigmata onto gaming.. as if we havent enough baseless accusitions to fight off allready.

So what if the portrayal of women turns you away from gaming? This isnt about your personal or my personal taste in portrayal of women.

She claims that video games actively undermine womens rights and are a tool of the "patriarchy" to surpress women.

This is not a well researched thought out work... this is what you would expect from a conspiracy theory.

There is not a board of mustache twisting evil male CEOs at EA that rub their palms together while they plan how they can surpress women this evening.

She goes on and on about how sexist super mario is for example.. a game where you play an italian plumber... who eats mushrooms to grow bigger and kills turtles by stomping on them. And her problem with that premise is that princess peach gets kidnapped and does nothing to free herselfe from said situation?

Why should she? She knows mario will come to her rescue.. and if i was in her shoes i wouldnt try to fight the fire breathing dragon turtle that can bite my head off myselfe when i know rescue is allready underway and that i wont be harmed aslong as i sit and wait.

Infact princess peach is the most clever out of the trio of mario bowser and herselfe.

But most importantly: Its a bloody fantasy world! Our real live standards do not translate to a kingdom inhabited by walking talking mushrooms and flying turtles! And besides princess peach no other female char in any of the mario games was protrait in a sexist way wich more or less shows that peach is not the norm but rather the exception at being a ditzy blonde stereotype.

PETA has more of a case saying that pokemon promotes violence against animals....
 

rbstewart7263

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nogitsune said:
I don't like Sarkeesian's brand of Feminism, I believe she has the right, like us all to say what she want but I do think her views are flawed and toxic. The article basically tells me she's preaching to the choir and from my experience with her works, you have to be in the choir or you are a horrible person. I don't condone those that tried to silence her, they are doing the same thing she is but perhaps worse.

My big problem is that Anita's feminism is negative, it tells us all objetification is bad and we must stop it. She forgets one great thing that fiction can do is allow us to enjoy things that are taboo or even unethical without harming anyone. It's one thing to gaze with lust at Felicia from Darkstalkers and another to gaze at the cute girl at the coffee shop. The latter would make the girl uncomfortable and therefore do harm but it doesn't matter how much one stares at the videogame character, heck it doesn't matter if he stated mouth open with his tongue hanging out. They are two different things and to say they're the same is to show an ignorance to the difference of fantasy and reality, some that most people can do even when they're children.

I have no problem with reasonable feminism, as humans we deserve equal rights. But free speech is one of those rights and art should exist even if it's offensive. People don't have to buy the games with elements that they don't approve of, but they shouldn't crusade to shame those that like art that they don't approve of, that can only lead to censorship, perhaps not the law but one of social norms or gets ignored and nothing changes.

I think that in the end Sarkeesian isn't doing anything good with her Trope vs. Women series. It would do a lot more good if she and other feminists with concerns with gaming take a positive role, promoting games that they find good portrayals of women instead of attacking games and art they don't like.
I think the debate is made more toxic cause its not really a debate.

People go after the easy target the trolls. kind of like the evil terrorists across the seas they are an easier demon to face than say our own corrupt banks and institutions. in that same vein no one seems concerned that no one else is in on this debate.

Sex positive feminists that like bayonetta for example. Why havent i heard from them? I think that would really be good to have another side to the "how to make sexism go away debate. Why hasnt anyone stepped up? we need more than this one sided perspective to promote healthy debate. as is its just. "meh those damned trolls look at what they do to her!"
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Oskuro said:
This is a reality, and many of our cherished memories (like Princess Peach) are very very flawed, they always were, we just keep trying to convince ourselves they aren't to avoid admitting to ourselves that we've liked morally questionable content for so long.
I have never cherished peach at all, she could be replaced by a blind pet chipmunk and i would still happily play those games. In fact, she could be replaced with mario and we could play as peach!! They have equal character in my opinion, which is jack sh*t, and it would be good to see bowser have a change of obsession.
Anyway, doesn't Nintendo counter this with super smash bros? Oh wait...she has a saucepan, turnip and umbrella for weaponry. *Quietly trails off*...
 

Goliath100

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Karadalis said:
WHAT DID SHE SPEND ALL THIS TIME ON?

Did you really just say that a person does not need to actually research a topic to judge it..
Well, if she is holding lectures on colleges all over the states, I'll bet on travelling. She spend time on the road, I think. (Sarkeesian should really have said something definitiv about her day job)

No, I asked how much. Because you don't need to 100% a game to know if it's good (or ok). Than why do Sarkeesian need to play all of NSMB Wii when Peach is in only the begin or end? Don't answer that, just answer how much do a person need to experience before judging?
 

Ipsen

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Oskuro said:
I find it highly suspect when people criticise Miss Sarkeesian based on her methodology (because hey, there are no popular video series out there based solely on the author's opinion, or using flawed methodology), or the perception that the Kickstarter campaign was a "cash grab" (because no frivolous kickstarter campaigns had existed prior or since).

It feels as much of an evasion as the very typical "I don't like her but..." phrase preceding many comments on this very thread.

In my opinion, Miss Sarkeesian has hit the nail on the head, and made a lot of people feel threatened. It's like someone having their secret porn stash discovered: Suddenly they are faced with the moral implications of that thing they used to enjoy shamelessly, and that leads to shame and guilt, something no one likes to feel.
But why did the message have to feel threatening? Especially when the dredge rise, it blows up into (a somewhat male typical) anger and violent reactions.

They have no box to stand on, of course. The scum who threatened her are still scum, and have no validation in a proper society. But the way she presented her argument led to what we have; a ton of stupidity that obscures real issues or proper solutions.

This is a reality, and many of our cherised memories (like Princess Peach) are very very flawed, they always were, we just keep trying to convince ourselves they aren't to avoid admitting to ourselves that we've liked morally questionable content for so long. Perhaps this reaction was entirely inevitable, but I think she could have had more tact in her approach. However, even I'll admit that's optimistic thinking for such a topic, but it's still a view I hold true.
Princess Peach is flawed, but she also isn't contemporary. Hell, the only reason 'rescuing the princess' even makes sense today is that old tales told to children commonly featured that aspect as conflict, and it's carried over from more misogynic times to our less misogynic times. Absolutely prudent to question cultural trends of the past (and identify it right; this is a trend originating in times past and unacceptable today, not the fault of gaming), but bring solutions to the table, not just issues.

And I think it's about time people start talking about what she's trying to talk about, instead of focusing on how she's talking about it.


But hey, I'm a little person who doesn't scream loudly enough to ever be listened. Maybe I should do a kickstarter.
See above. People ARE talking about what she's talking about, but it's masked by the stupidity of all the anger included with each topic. Not surprised you miss it, though.

Sarkeesian presents this problem in a somewhat combative method; she has problems with established tropes in games, and has presented them as such. That's it. No solutions, no alternatives. I'm likened to think she'd prefer to see the industry torn down, and nothing to replace it (or more accurately, see them changed to be equal in gender but broken or bland in story). Judgment withheld until she addresses this (or doesn't), but I really want to see her start bringing up not even just what a proper female-centric game should be, but what does a proper, potentially profitable game with gender equality look like?


It's topics like these that make me miss Extra Credits' presence here. Generally positive, and people actually contributed their own thoughts and opinions related to the forward thinking of the topic. I find internet discourse among general populace to be painfully lacking in finding solutions; it seems we'd rather just argue/bicker/insult each other to get some other person or like-minded people's jimmies rustled. My problem with Sarkeesian lurks around the fact that she also doesn't help herself by avoiding this aspect of internet discussion.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Captain Pooptits said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Oskuro said:
This is a reality, and many of our cherished memories (like Princess Peach) are very very flawed, they always were, we just keep trying to convince ourselves they aren't to avoid admitting to ourselves that we've liked morally questionable content for so long.
I have never cherished peach at all, she could be replaced by a blind pet chipmunk and i would still happily play those games. In fact, she could be replaced with mario and we could play as peach!! They have equal character in my opinion, which is jack sh*t, and it would be good to see bowser have a change of obsession.
Anyway, doesn't Nintendo counter this with super smash bros? Oh wait...she has a saucepan, turnip and umbrella for weaponry. *Quietly trails off*...
Hold on, she also has a golfclub and, I believe, a tennis racket. All of which are references to other games she's been in. The turnip is from Mario Bros 2, the golf club from Mario Golf.

And just because she has a saucepan hardly makes it a negative representation. She's motherly and feminine. But maybe she likes being motherly and feminine? Not all female characters need to kick ass and eschew girly things. Not unless you're Sarkeesian, in which case, yes they do.
Lol, maybe i should have been clearer when trying to be light hearted. I think your interpretation of peach as 'motherly' because she has a saucepan is quite hilarious ;)