The Old Republic: How does it measure up?

BloatedGuppy

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Kahunaburger said:
I think this is the problem. It's not exactly good by the standards of storytelling in general, or even other games (particularly not most other Bioware games.) So all it can really compete with is other MMOs.

Then, it runs into the issue that people don't play multiplayer games to have a story told to them - they play them to experience their own stories in an interesting and enjoyable environment. Less "remember the time the character in a cutscene said the thing?" and more "remember the time we beat The Library on Legendary at 3 AM/owned everything as a Heavy-Medic combo/killed Crawmerax/got our house blown up by creepers?"
Well, I agree and disagree.

No, this is not exactly good by the standards of storytelling in general, but then maybe a dozen games TOTAL in the history of the medium are.

No, this is not exactly good by the standards of good storytelling in games, either, it's stubbornly average.

Yes, it does only really compete with other MMOs, but those are its competition, and it does blow them out of the water in this regard.

I had similar misgivings about adding heavy story content to a genre that didn't particularly seem to need it, but I've been pleasantly surprised so far. It does enhance the experience. Whether I will feel the same way after another 150 hours remains to be seen, but it does allow for more of a sense of "character", rather than your avatar merely being an extension of your will. Will it appeal to hardcore raiders and the PvP crowd? Probably not, but the bulk of MMO subscribers over the last half dozen years have been casual gamers, and I think they'll eat it up.
 

Squidden

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I've had the best time playing SWTOR out of any other MMO I've played so far. It takes a lot of things from WoW, enough that it can be called a WoW clone, but it doesn't take them lazily. It takes the best things and improves on the worse things. This, coupled with a fantastic story and character development, makes it a very good game that could stand up to WoW.

That being said, it's got plenty of flaws. It's not properly optimized yet and runs fairly poorly on most rigs. This will probably change, though, because it's only been out for a few weeks now.

As for what people are saying about the bugs, they're really overstating the amount and affect of the bugs. Bugs are expected of an MMO during launch. Look at any MMO out there, and all of them had bugs upon release. People should have understood that there would be problems since the game hasn't had a consistent development for over seven years like WoW. The game is certainly still playable.

If you want to, you could treat the game like KotOR 3 and solo through the campaign, because it stands up by itself. BioWare created missions with stories and added the objectives afterwards, where Blizzard created the objectives (such as "Go to field, collect 30 boar snouts, return.") and then added a story in afterwards to fit the objectives. That's why the campaign and mission aspect of TOR is so fantastic, because you don't mind collecting a few things or disabling some machinery since there is a reason to do it. They've also implemented a bonus system where you can go out of your way to kill some extra people or damage something above and beyond for extra reward. You don't have to do it, but you'll get something extra if you do.

Overall, TOR is a great game that I've enjoyed immensely for the past few weeks. I've sunk in a good deal of hours on ONE character, without even doing a large portion of the multiplayer content. I would personally recommend it to anybody who liked WoW.

EDIT:


BloatedGuppy said:
GW2 is an evolution of this sub genre as well.
Guild Wars 2 promises to be vastly different from other MMOs. It's got a completely revamped questing system and (apparently) will get rid of the triad system where you require a healer, a tank and a DPS.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Squidden said:
Guild Wars 2 promises to be vastly different from other MMOs. It's got a completely revamped questing system and (apparently) will get rid of the triad system where you require a healer, a tank and a DPS.
Distinct classes.
Level up to gain more power.
Hotbar activated skills.
Aggro-damage-heal damage trinity still exists, it's just self-contained now, so while they have torn down the trinity to some degree, the mechanics of combat remain the same.

The Secret World is more of a departure from the Everquest formula than Guild Wars 2. I'm looking forward to GW2, but it's an evolutionary game, not a revolutionary game.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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As someone who played Rift for the last year or so, I think SWTOR is actually pretty shite. The game is buggy as hell, the mechanics are pretty dated, the graphics are borderline last gen (PC-wise), and the ability lag is frustrating as hell. It doesn't feel nearly as solid as WoW did 5+ years ago, and it definitely doesn't measure up to the polish of Rift.

But Rift doesn't have a) an overrated license that's been completely run into the ground the last decade, or b) Bioware's overrated storytelling. Sorry if that's a sore spot for a lot of folks around here, but I've played through (I think) every Bioware RPG. They're great. They're also 100% the same goddamn story over and over and over again, and all of the same cliched, predictable narrative elements are on display in TOR.

My overall take? If you're not sick to death of Bioware's storytelling, and you haven't played any of the deeper, more polished MMOs on the market (most notably Rift), you'll probably enjoy TOR.
 

BloatedGuppy

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ravenshrike said:
TwitchyGamer101 said:
*Game doesn't need macros. Key-binds work just fine.
They work just fine in theory but when your companion bar interferes with the keybinds and bound keys will not work when moused over ops window or the rest of the UI it's a big fucking problem for healing specs.
The UI is a problem in general, I should've mentioned that in my summary. If you're going to not include macros and mods at release, you need to have a customizable UI. It's nice, I suppose, that everyone is on a level playing field, but "Everyone has to wrestle with the same terrible UI" is not a super selling point.
 

funksobeefy

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I was going to get it, then was enlightened to the fact that I would have to pay for 60 days in order to get the "free" month.

Fuck. That. Shit.

I just went out and bought Shogun Total War and can play for free
 

Windcaler

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There have been several posts recently about this same topic. To sum up, whether the price is worth it is a subjective opinion, I think it is. Im having fun with the game because the quests force me to be an interactive part of the game instead of just skipping dialog/cutscenes. The games not perfect but the flaws are very small and I have encountered no game breaking bugs or exploits thus far.

I give it a solid recomendation if you enjoy hot key based MMORPGs (yes and MMO with actual roleplaying in it!). If you dont like hot key based MMO's you wont like this game

SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Kingme18 said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Extemely lackluster. To be fair, its not that much worse than any other MMO, it just fails to bring anything new to the table, which is disappointing considering the universe it is set in. Think of the potential Jedi combat, for instance, has. Then compare it to TOR. Click on enemy, go make a cup of tea, maybe click an ability from time to time (which has a 0.5 second lag on it, by the way, game breaking in PvP).
Im sorry but due to the vagueness and this claim (as hyperbolic as it is) I suspect you have not even played the game. There is no auto attack and companions lack the ability to take out full groups themselves unless they are severely under level (so much so that you dont earn anything from taking the group out). Your claim is not only unfounded but completely and provably false
 

FieryTrainwreck

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ravenshrike said:
As someone who also played Rift, specifically 2 characters to level 50 before patch 1.4 at which point given the direction they were taking with their balancing act I quit, I can tell you you're full of shit on the graphics issue. Art direction is utterly different from graphics generation. In point of fact SWTOR graphics are a bit more detailed than Rift's, and apart from the draw distance which they REALLY need to unlock their foliage is quite a bit more detailed. Doesn't look realistic, but the models are more detailed. Not as flashy in combat because apart from lightning and rocks, giant balls of light are not exactly common in the star wars universe.
Is this one of those "lean into the wind so hard you fall over" moments? Using such strong language ("full of shit"?) in defense of what most consider an abject falsehood? I haven't talked to a single other living, breathing human who thinks Star Wars looks better than Rift - not from a raw technical standpoint. Maybe your PC isn't strong enough (or, in your language, "sucks floppy donkey dick")?

Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.

It is buggy, but that's because they took several design choices will should work out in the end. Specifically the way flashpoints and ops work, as well as pvp. Since all the cutscenes are in game, graphical glitches are much more likely.
You're not connecting the dots here. One does not follow from the other.
 

BloatedGuppy

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FieryTrainwreck said:
Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.
TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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BloatedGuppy said:
TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.
It's very convenient, the aesthetic choice that allows you to get away with minimal texture work and simplistic effects, innit tho?

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.
Nah, that's supremely fair. Yours are easily the most informed and balanced takes in this thread. I'm pretty biased against the WoW-style cartoon aesthetic and Bioware's bloated storytelling, so my opinion is definitely crowding the negative end of the spectrum.

Rift was pretty sweet at first, but that's always the case with MMOs. The dynamic rift content ceased to be so dynamic after a few weeks. The pvp is still well-done, but that's no thanks to support or content. Rather, the mechanics of the game are quite sound and the ability to mix and match souls gives you fairly unprecedented freedom in the genre.

Anyways, I'll be spending more time with TOR this month. Hopefully Bioware irons out the ability lag and other kinks to create a more polished "feel", which is crucial in pvp (my preferred arena).
 

Nathan Allison

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BloatedGuppy said:
FieryTrainwreck said:
Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.
TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.
I'm at a loss for words, thankfully, this picture explains my reaction.



Okami has good Aesthetics
Wind Waker has good Aesthetics
Journey has good Aesthetics

Those games look great without pushing pixels.

Guild Wars 2
Bayonetta
Portal

Those games have great Aesthetics and pushing Pixels

Star Wars the Old Republic, the animations are awful, from the combat to the storytelling. The characters look plastic, the worlds look great though, except the worlds are linear and you can't even explore most of it.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Nathan Allison said:
I'm at a loss for words, thankfully, this picture explains my reaction.


Okami has good Aesthetics
Wind Waker has good Aesthetics
Monster Hunter has good Aesthetics

Those games look great without pushing pixels.

Star Wars the Old Republic, the animations are awful, from the combat to the storytelling. The characters look plastic, the worlds look great though, except the worlds are linear and you can't even explore most of it.
Maybe this picture will help you out even more.


If someone comes up to you and tells you Spaghetti is their favorite food, do you pull that face and tell them tacos are better?

It's nice to have opinions. Acknowledging that your opinions =/= truth is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.
 

Nathan Allison

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There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.
 

AnotherAvatar

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As a person who favors plot above all else in gaming The Old Republic has made me addicted to an MMO, something I never thought would happen given the general lack of story in the genre.

Mind you I'm not so addicted that I can't stop playing, I've been going since early access and my only character is at level 38. In my opinion The Old Republic is a great game, and a brilliant concept, but I find myself needing breaks from it, almost as though it were a job, I guess that's an MMO thing as I felt the same way in my short time in WoW and DCU, but it does take away from my enjoyment.

Also worth noting is the obscene number of glitches. Bioware + the MMO Genre = More glitches than you can imagine.

Still, all that negative stuff aside it is an epic game that has me tied into not only my character's strength and ability to destroy other players, but also to the plot and personality of said character. Basically the game is quality blend of some great concepts that make it's grind-filled nature acceptable, and I'd rather have a buggy game I can play now than have the same game get pushed back a year to fix all the issues.

It's generated a lot of buzz, and if the dev team can keep things interesting past level 50 then this could dethrone WoW (which only makes sense, I mean how old is WoW now? The fact that some new MMO hasn't dethroned it yet just shows you how the genre is content being mediocre and mostly made fun because of it's players rather than it's developers).

Still, what do I know about MMO's? I'm more of a CRPG/Stealth guy, which leaves me pretty much exclusively single player in my gaming. Gotta give The Old Republic credit for drawing a guy like me in though.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Nathan Allison said:
There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.
Your first and second statements are ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks.

Aesthetics are subjective. Your taste in aesthetics is not any more valid than anyone else. Amazing, I know.
 

Nathan Allison

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BloatedGuppy said:
Nathan Allison said:
There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.
Your first and second statements are ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks.

Aesthetics are subjective. Your taste in aesthetics is not any more valid than anyone else. Amazing, I know.
Sorry but your loyalty and lack of adversion ticked me off.

You're defending something that shouldn't be defended. SWTOR's aesthetics and graphics isn't something that should be praised. They are not bad nor are they good. To put it simple, they can be better.

You know why BioWare copied World of Warcraft. It works and it's successful, it's hard to argue against copying something that's been a gaming force for years. It appeals to all a large audience of gamers.

Here is the kicker, developers listen to their fanbase.

Telling BioWare, "The graphics and aesthetics are great!" Only hurts the game. I've played The Forced Unleashed, I know how a Star Wars game should look this generation.
I've seen the Old Republic trailers, that flashy CGI can't graphically transition into a gameplay, but I've seen what it can come close to looking like.
My opinion of next gen games has a higher standard, like it should.

By praising SWTOR looks and graphics, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. Not to mention annoying all gamers that want to see a next gen Star Wars MMO.


Lastly, video game aesthetics are not as subjective as you like to think. If that was the case, then World of Warcraft could be the best looking MMO of all time.

We both know that's not true.