The Trials and Perils of Returning to PC

[ThunderCavalier]

Ironically, it's probably the consoles themselves that led to this state. With Sega pulling out the 16-bit thing and making consoles want to focus on graphical fidelity and tech, they've slowly edged out the reasons why they're superior over a PC. Halo and the advent of viable console online Multiplayer didn't help much (and I'm a Halo fanboy).

I do still like a bunch of games on the consoles, and I'll probably get a PS4, but I don't see the consoles lasting this generation. Worst case scenario, consoles will become entirely irrelevant in the next few years.

 

[Sticky]

Okay, but that only shows that there is a problem. I honestly doubt that we'll ever see a time where all games are available for all systems. If we do, then feel free to find this thread and I'll admit all my wrongness because I'd love to not have to worry about missing cool exclusives, but until then all he has done is acknowledge the problem.

Not to mention there are plenty of games exclusively on the PC that could absolutely run on a console, but nobody is calling that a problem.

All of the woes that you have mentioned is very much a problem of consoles. It's the problem of the publishers and the console makers being in bed with one another. Do you think those publishers like being told that they can only release their game on that one console because it's going to be a launch title and carry the new hardware? Do you think the developers like having to cater to a console and the various gimmicks that have been stuck onto them in order to appear 'different'?

This isn't even getting into the problem of the console makers being in bed with the publishers, a situation that screams unfair business practice. So when the best argument one can make for the consoles is that they use the most consumer-unfriendly tactics to stay competitive, feel free to not color me impressed.

Or as a friend put it so aptly: "They dug this hole, now they're lying in it trying to convince me that it's a feature, forgive me if I don't believe them."

 

[Compatriot Block]

Okay, but that only shows that there is a problem. I honestly doubt that we'll ever see a time where all games are available for all systems. If we do, then feel free to find this thread and I'll admit all my wrongness because I'd love to not have to worry about missing cool exclusives, but until then all he has done is acknowledge the problem.

Not to mention there are plenty of games exclusively on the PC that could absolutely run on a console, but nobody is calling that a problem.

All of the woes that you have mentioned is very much a problem of consoles. It's the problem of the publishers and the console makers being in bed with one another. Do you think those publishers like being told that they can only release their game on that one console because it's going to be a launch title and carry the new hardware? Do you think the developers like having to cater to a console and the various gimmicks that have been stuck onto them in order to appear 'different'?

This isn't even getting into the problem of the console makers being in bed with the publishers, a situation that screams unfair business practice. So when the best argument one can make for the consoles is that they use the most consumer-unfriendly tactics to stay competitive, feel free to not color me impressed.

Okay? I never contested any of that, so I'm not sure how to respond.

My point was that if I want to play games like Destiny (unless the rumored PC port turns out to exist), I can only do so on a console. I want to play these games, ergo I will get a console. I am not trying to impress anyone. Actually, I wasn't making any argument at all. Which is why I referred to it as a problem, and not a good thing.

 

[Strelok]

(a) that offers only 60% of the performance power of the Ps4,

And that ones even more expensive. And still only at 90% equivalence.

I really would love to know where these numbers are coming from, I will take a shot in the dark and guess the nether regions of your posterior.

And wow, I had no idea that PC's actually gave you free AAA legal non-F2p games every single month. Because thats the only way you could claim some equivalence between paying the extra cash for a PC and buying Ps+.

 

[RA92]

snip

Would both of you be willing to put together a $400 "console killer" for me? I have yet to find anyone on this forum who can prove that it is possible. PCs are no doubt more powerful. but from what I can see, console is still the best at power vs. cost.

Ummm, where did I make any such claim? Reread my post:

Pros of consoles:

1. Cheap.

When you add the cost of an HD TV, HDD extensions, extra charge for online MP, the fact that console games cost $10 more than PC versions and aren't discounted as heavily/frequently as Steam sales, the costs keep adding up.

I didn't even mention $400 anywhere. Gaming being 'cheap' is a fallacy perpetuated by both sides.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

So true. My friends are so excited that this generation of consoles is getting so close to being a PC, and I'm dreading it. I don't want to play games on a PC. I cannot figure them out. I tried for over an hour to install Diablo III on my PC when it came out. The screen sat at 0% the entire time, the music played and Cain's video played, but there was no sound. I had no idea how to fix it, so I now have a sixty dollar paper weight. The console version though, I just pop it in and I'm good to go. No installing or anything.
But yes, it sounds like this generation is strangling that. I do want to sit down and play my game right away, not wait for an install or anything like that. So I'm in the boat from the first paragraph I suppose.

 

[Crimsonmonkeywar]

What? I paid 8£ for just cause 2 on the 360 last week! I need a better PC. Still, grapple hooking every little buggering thing to a barrel of explosive fuel never loses its charm
Faith is lost in consoling now. Apart from nintendo, which most ppl i know still don't seem to understand. Fucktards they are. Ahem

A new multiplayer mod is coming to Steam.....pretty excited for that.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

Remember when some people claimed that PC gaming was dead? Turned out they were wrong.

As such, I urge people to not jump to conclusions. Calm down and play nice.

I support this motion.

Consoles could pull a trick out of their sleeve at any time that keeps them relevant, or they'll do what PCs did and just keep on keeping on until they force their way back into the spotlight. Or the next gen might drop back into what made old consoles great.

And if we cannot play nice, then we'll never get true PC/console multiplayer crossover, and me and my friend will be very sad.

Indeed. I think it will require a very seriuos upheaval before we see consoles going away completely.

PC/console multiplayer crossover would be nice. I think it would ease a lot of the tension between console players and PC players.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

Remember when some people claimed that PC gaming was dead? Turned out they were wrong.

As such, I urge people to not jump to conclusions. Calm down and play nice.

I support this motion.

Consoles could pull a trick out of their sleeve at any time that keeps them relevant, or they'll do what PCs did and just keep on keeping on until they force their way back into the spotlight. Or the next gen might drop back into what made old consoles great.

And if we cannot play nice, then we'll never get true PC/console multiplayer crossover, and me and my friend will be very sad.

Indeed. I think it will require a very seriuos upheaval before we see consoles going away completely.

PC/console multiplayer crossover would be nice. I think it would ease a lot of the tension between console players and PC players.

Yes, Mouse & Keyboard players vs Controller users is exactly what we need. Any sort of competitive game apart from turn based would be a disaster.

 

[Toadfish1]

(a) that offers only 60% of the performance power of the Ps4,

And that ones even more expensive. And still only at 90% equivalence.

I really would love to know where these numbers are coming from, I will take a shot in the dark and guess the nether regions of your posterior.

And wow, I had no idea that PC's actually gave you free AAA legal non-F2p games every single month. Because thats the only way you could claim some equivalence between paying the extra cash for a PC and buying Ps+.

Memes

The claim was that plus is for the online play and online play only. Therefore, the games are not a part of that bargain, and come at no additional cost.

Either its a bargain and discount service that also allows multiplayer on certain games (while leaving other completely free to play online with if the games makers provide the servers) or its an online multiplayer fee that comes with free games. One or the other, neither of which makes it a negative.

 

[Toadfish1]

Pros of consoles:

1. Cheap.

When you add the cost of an HD TV, HDD extensions, extra charge for online MP, the fact that console games cost $10 more than PC versions and aren't discounted as heavily/frequently as Steam sales, the costs keep adding up.

And yet we're going to ignore the costs of "upgrading" (i.e. overhauling completely) your Pc every 2.5 years. Shocking, that.

 

[Toadfish1]

Pros of consoles:

1. Cheap.

When you add the cost of an HD TV, HDD extensions, extra charge for online MP, the fact that console games cost $10 more than PC versions and aren't discounted as heavily/frequently as Steam sales, the costs keep adding up.

And yet we're going to ignore the costs of "upgrading" (i.e. overhauling completely) your Pc every 2.5 years. Shocking, that.

irronically thanks to the console market once you have a decent pc you hardly need to update anymore as the power needed to run the ports remains pretty static

Well, I could point out that the nature of consoles means that devs are able to get more power out of them as time goes by meaning that that statement is largely a myth, but instead I could simply state, planned obsolescence? Whats that?

 

[Wntrmt]

Personally I'm done with console gaming with the possible exception of handhelds. I do quite like my 3DS, and my old fat PSP was quite good when I was hacking about with it for homebrew.

I've had a great number of consoles over the years, the last being a PS3, but I just can't ever see myself buying another, unless they change drastically.

For one thing, the prices are monstrous these days. I can justify a sizable price tag on a computer because as well as doing games, it does *everything* else a computer does. I can't justify another device with a price approaching the computer which is more focused on a single purpose. Even when they branch out to do other things, like they have in the last couple years, the other things they do - movies, music, social site stuff - is only ever a *duplication* of what my computer or other devices already do.

And that's just the console price itself. When you get to the games and their £40-45 price tags (The big budget, AAA PC games are expensive too of course, but steam, gog, etc always do amazing deals...), and the extra subscriptions to do things that I've been doing for free for years on the PC, well then it's just flat out unattractive.

Also, and this is more nerdy, and niche I suppose, but I can't fathom not having access to mods. I bought JC2 on the sale too, and one of the first things I did was get hold of a mod to give me multiple/strong grappling hooks. And then I got the MP mod too. And series like Fallout or the Elder Scrolls are utterly transformed with mods. And the mods and fixes that are out there for the ... more unfortunate ... games that are riddled with bugs, poor performance, etc.

When consoles can justify their price - either by doing truly new things, rather than just poorly imitating stuff I already get, or when they offer an experience that truly rivals what I already have - then I might be interested

 

[Altered Nova]

Buying a good gaming PC is a bigger up front cost but it's a better long term investment. A PS4 is a bit cheaper than an equivalent PC but once you factor in that yearly multiplayer subscription fee and the drastically cheaper prices of games on PC - I regularly see PC digital downloads of multi-console games on sale for half or a quarter of the prices of getting a used copy on a console, plus there's all those super cheap indie bundles and lots of straight up free games - you'll realize that five years down the line that PS4 will have cost you a lot more money. Plus when the next console cycle eventually starts you'll need to drop another $400-600 for the newest console to stay up to date on gaming while a PC will likely be able to be upgraded for half that cost because it's modular and you can reuse a lot of your old components while only upgrading the graphics card and maybe the cpu and motherboard.

And that's not even mentioning how a PC is also a general purpose machine that can do pretty much anything you want, while a PS4 is just for gaming and maybe browsing the internet. Really the only reason I can see to a get a next generation console is for the exclusives. And I'm not knocking anyone that buys it for that reason, I'm primarily a PC gamer but I also own an Xbox 360 and PS3 and most of their exclusives. But if a game comes on on PC too that's the version I buy.

 

[head desk tricycle]

I miss the 90s. Nintendo and Sega were finally figuring out how to make arcade-quality consoles, so porting arcade games was suddenly really easy, which was good because the arcades back then were insanely competitive environments where only the most awesome games survived. Also, the console developers had massive game development muscles at that point from constantly straining against the limitations of consoles, and then they suddenly had arcade-quality consoles to work with. And simultaneously, PC hardware was evolving rapidly, which meant that PC developers now had every reason in the world to make extremely high-end products since it was mostly the extreme high-end consumers who were actually buying PC games at launch, and meanwhile the usual creative scene of PC coding hobbyists had all these new insane tools at their disposal. So it was like this gaming renaissance, I'd be getting all this kickass stuff on consoles and the PC gamers were showing off all the kickass stuff they were getting, everything was so great and it looked like it would only get better and better. Now it's just, fuck. In a way, things are sort of going backwards; all these new MMOs are like the old arcades coming back, PC games went back to the low end with things like Steam and Desura, consoles went back to constantly promising way more than they can actually deliver and hoping no one catches on just like Atari used to, and somehow even Activision went back to being on top with all the other developers imitating them.

 

[Church185]

snip

BF4 runs at 60fps on PS4 [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-face-off]. Also, the PS4 is constantly recording game footage. Once you press the share button it saves a screenshot and the last 15 minutes of whatever you were doing. If you double tap the share button you can start a new recording and record for longer than 15 minutes. If you are going to debate please stay informed.

 

[Church185]

Huh, you're right. That's really weird, wonder how he got that. Anyways, here's a <a href=http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2ikEr>PCpartpicker link for pretty much exactly the same build at 450$.

You, I like you. You'll actually have a civil debate with me.

<a href=http://www.reddit.com/r/softwareswap>r/SoftwareSwap has you covered! Not to mention that when SteamOS comes out you'll have a console OS analogue that is completely free.

So, it is possible to get Windows that cheap, but do you really expect normal consumers to go looking there? PCs will never kill off consoles if you have to jump through hoops like that to get a good price. I'll admit that SteamOS looks promising, but I don't know enough about it at this point to make a real judgement on it. If office programs or video editing software isn't compatible with it, I probably won't be using it (neither will normal consumers).

Actually, the PS4 does run Battlefield 4 on mid settings with 60fps... at 900p. Boo. And it really won't need that much money sunk into it, maybe if you want to since a better GPU will be dirt cheap in a couple of years (chalk another one up to PC), but it should easily run games until the end of this gen.

Excuse me if I don't trust Jackfrags eyeballing a prerelease build of the game back in August. I'll try to come up with a more recent comparison, but I seriously doubt it is only medium settings. The build above could run games till the end of the gen, but if you stick with the same parts they won't look nearly as good as the consoles due to poor optimization from the developers. I won't have to put any more money into the PS4 to play games that look decent until the end of the gen.

EDIT: Found a more recent comparison [http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-battlefield-4-next-gen-face-off].

Spoiler: Relevant quotes from the article. Spoiler'd for size.

From Eurogamer:
"Sadly, both next-gen platforms fall short of toppling the PC's ultra quality shadow setting. The difference is nuanced, and has the gaps in grills and meshes play out in shadow form across walls, as well as other areas filled out with more light-path detail. A filtering cascade on shadows is also noticeable - barely - on PS4 and Xbox One as you travel up sharp inclines such as stairs, but with motion blur in constant effect this is a tricky one to spot in motion.

As far as texture and world detail go, normal mapping on the ground is identical in quality with the PC's maxed-out setting, even on larger areas where you might expect a compromise. However, draw distances for plants and geometry are noticeably better-rounded on PC: appearing in higher density when up close, we see buildings rendered in during cut-scenes that simply don't manifest on next-gen platforms. This is backed up by a more liberal use of particle effects on PC around explosions, and while alpha for fire is comparable up close, flames in the distance suffer from a downgrade in quality on PS4 and Xbox One.

But with all else being equal in the final build, image quality stands out as the biggest differentiator in terms of defining each console's look. Neither can match the upscale-free 1080p output of the PC for handling tiny water shader details - appearing especially blurred over as a result on Xbox One. It's also curious that both platforms introduce a more aggressive depth-of-field layer during scripted events, where the PC is left largely unaffected."

From Digital Foundry:
"Elbowing into the tussle is, as always, the PC version with its higher-grade particle and alpha effects, superior object draw distance and more refined shadow detailing at ultra settings. But it must be commended just how much of this maxed-out experience translates to next-gen platforms. The textures on PS4 and Xbox One are equal to the PC's highest, and water shaders carry over as-is, where the current-gen versions really show us the plain, pared-back alternative. It's a very solid effort in this sense, and can only get better as DICE's understanding of the hardware grows."

EDIT 2: I forgot to bring up the fact that the PS4 is constantly recording game footage in the background. You are going to see a dip in performance if you try to do that on the PC build you listed.