The 'whats the point in marriage?' debate :)

[pulse2]

Love, togetherness, all those types of things, can be done without marriage, as you say.

But if you get married to someone, it shows that you two are truly connected, and truly one. People are going to take your relationship more seriously if you say

"I married x!"

As opposed to

"I love x!"

I mean, marriage (this is going to sound super gay and corny, so forgive me) is a traditional bond, which shows how much a man and a woman (or another man) really love eachother.

While a lot of people may not see marriage as this bond, the majority of society will.

Thats exactly my point, why should we have to appease others, at what point in humans existance on Earth did we as humans become sucked into this constant loop whereby we have to do what others tell us in order to be taken seriously? Now let's say hypothetically I wasn't a person interested at any point in getting married, what would it be of anyones business if I'm married or not? Why should I have to conform to the same tedious human loop of grow up, get married, have children, die just because everyone else would want to follow that tradition.

Now currently my only personal disinterest in marriage is the fact that I consider myself too young, but in the situation that I simply hated the concept all together, the very thought of someone telling me I would have to get married to my gf to be taken seriously would piss me right off, if anything simply turn me against those who had a problem with it, I'd probably think them ignorant and inflexible to changes in society. Now that goes without saying I would obviously not be preaching to others that they too shouldn't marry because that would of course make me hypocritical.

At times I can't help but think that someone comes up with an idea, everyone else thinks, ooh, thats a good idea, and before we know it, the entire world is all doing the same thing, its become a tradition and if you step out of it, you are the anomoly. I hate to say it, but it's sorta like saying I don't like Iphone4, good god my friends came down on me, what did I do wrong :/ I just prefer HTC and BB, yikes :/

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

My perspective on marriage is extremely limited when religious or legal implications are thrown in (Im just gonna say what I believe the point in matrimony is, screw the legal and religious points on it).
Marriage is a symbol between 2 people that love each other,a symbol that shows their love is strong and pure, a symbol that you are willing and strong enough to take that next big step in a relationship, a symbol that shows you will follow the one you love to the end of life and time and even beyond that.

 

[TheRundownRabbit]

Love, togetherness, all those types of things, can be done without marriage, as you say.

But if you get married to someone, it shows that you two are truly connected, and truly one. People are going to take your relationship more seriously if you say

"I married x!"

As opposed to

"I love x!"

I mean, marriage (this is going to sound super gay and corny, so forgive me) is a traditional bond, which shows how much a man and a woman (or another man) really love eachother.

While a lot of people may not see marriage as this bond, the majority of society will.

Dude, its not super gay or corny, its noble and true, and I respect you a person for saying it.

 

[Korolev]

Marriage is not suited for everyone, but a lot of people do have an instinctive need to bond to someone. Personally, if I did find someone I loved, I would want to get married to her. That's just the way I am. No, marriage is not at the top of my priorities, nor as it ever been (I think that will change when I'm 40, stuck alone by myself in a lonely lab, glaring at the HeLa cells that refuse to love me back).

Look, I don't know why I think that marriage would be a good thing for me, I just do. Maybe culture has something to do with it, but given that the concept of marriage has arisen many times in many different cultures, I don't think it is entirely cultural. I think there is some in-built drive towards marriage. But I also know that not everyone is born the same and that everyone's minds develop differently - mammalian development is a messy affair and while genes do control the development of the brain, there's a lot of wiggle room and it's not uncommon for abnormal (not a pejorative term, it just means "different from normal") development to take place. I mean, the human brain is an incredibly complex thing, made up of billions of neurons. Things like sexual attraction and relationships are incredibly complex mental functions, and I wouldn't be surprised if, in some people, the brain developed in a less than common way which leads to them having impulses and desires which are different from the majority of the population - that doesn't mean it's bad, just different.

So for some people, they might not desire marriage at all, or at least have a very low desire for marriage, and for them, that's probably the way they were born. Genes do control how the brain is formed, but not totally, so it's possible for people to have desires that are a bit.... well, different.

 

[jboking]

That was behind a wall of the benefits you pointed out, so you can understand if I got bored halfway through it and assumed you were just highlighting benefits, which is exactly the same way people in society depict marriage, a wall of conceited and convenient benefits and a single thought about what it means for love and commitment, which is EXACTLY why divorce rates are rising in the first place and why this topic came up.

Wait, so you attacked my thoughts on the subject without actually ascertaining what they were? A little TL;DR would have been nice. Or looking at why I was responding to him and realize in context I wasn't saying that was the only reason for marriage, I was explaining that it wasn't the financial trap he made it out to be. Then you don't bother to apologize, but instead move on with a run-on paragraph from hell explaining that you seem to have undeniable knowledge of exactly why divorce rates are high. I'm sure it's not the over romanticizing of marriage at all or even people who move quickly from dating to marriage because they think there relationship without figuring out if their relationship is matured enough to handle it. Surely, it's because people recognize the benefits of being married.

If we were to take out all those potential benefits, it wuld seem like your arguement has little or nothing to be optimistic about :/

The hell are you talking about? I said it's a public statement of commitment. Without benefits it would be just a public statement of commitment, giving it an even greater appeal (because at that point it's not pragmatic, it's purely romantic).

You know what would piss me off? If someone stood before me and lectured me about how I should marry my gf because of all those benefits long before they even so much as mention love, determination, encouragement, commitment, companionship and all the things that SHOULD make me consider marriage.

I've had people tell me I should marry my girlfriend before, but never for those reasons. People really don't do this unless they have an ulterior motive for getting you hitched.

All those benefits are the some of the reasons why the farce of arranged marriage exists in the first place in some cultures.

Name a few. It exists in most cultures due to it being a religious tradition.

My other arguement for everyone this time is why is it so bad to not be married? Why must every human conform to the same ritual, it seems as though it's not okay to even so much as mention marriage not having much purpose for some people, but perfectly okay for society to scrutonize those who aren't married.

since you seem to think I'm a pragmatic bastard, I'll give you a pragmatic answer. It is your biologic purpose in this lifetime to provide to the species something of worth. A well raised child. A married couple is usually the best pair to raise a child. True, they aren't always the best option, but more often than not a happily married family is the safest environment for a growing child.

Take a hypothetical situation, society naturally has the common instinct to praise those who are married, despite the fact they may in fact hate each other's guts but are putting on false smiles to seem like a happy normal couple as well as granting those same 'benefits' to married couples like as if it is a human requirement to follow the same exact path in life as every tom, dick and harry before you, the moment you step out of the box, people get shocked. Why is it so shocking? In fact, why do people automatically ask if you are considering marriage if you've been with your partner for a long period and get shocked when you say no? So what? I haven't considered marriage, why is that selfish? Why is that unacceptable? Why is that a sign that I must have issues in my relationship or I don't love my partner enough to commit that everyone must make thier business as if one has personally insulted their intelligence?

If society knew they were unhappily married for reasons that were irreconcilable, then they wouldn't be encouraged to stay married. Also, it seems rude of you to say you haven't even given thought to marrying your girlfriend at some point because marriage is a public display of commitment. It's the proverbial 'last step' in a relationship. Of course, it is just the beginning of a much bigger part of life. If you truly are not considering marrying your girlfriend, it would seem that you aren't considering to have her involved in the rest of your life.

Actually, that last arguement just there came from my mother a minute ago, figured I'd just add it to my arguement, lol, she hates hypocrites

you may need a better understanding of hypocrisy. An environmentalist who rallies against pollution not going out of his way to recycle is hypocrisy. People criticizing a happy unmarried couple for not being married and praising a married couple just for being married isn't hypocrisy. It's unfair, but not hypocrisy.

 

[Wyma]

Hi there! I've been reading these forums for a while and finally decided to throw my 2 cents in . My argument may or may not seem a bit edgy but I mean no offense to anyone.

It's a shame people view things with such 'logic' these days. You're really just making yourself miss out on many many awesome things in life. Who dares wins, eh? Logically it's a huge risk to exit the safety of your house each day, think of the many many horrible things that could happen to you. My point is, marriage is a risk. Yes you face the prospect of abuse, divorce, heartbreak and you could really screw your life over. Logically marriage probably isn't a great idea, when you look at it from a cold, unattached view. But if you look at it logically you're missing the point, as many people have mentioned in this thread. If you're getting married with someone you should be so madly in love that logic couldn't possibly convince you otherwise. And you shouldn't really bother getting married if you're not prepared to deal with all the problems that come with it, for the rest of your life, because the person you're getting married to is worth so much to you, even marriage seems like such an unworthy expression of your commitment to this person. If you can't face that or don't feel that way about that person you're probably not cut out to be with that person at all, let alone getting married to them.

And you know what? Love is a commitment, not a feeling you get. If you truly love someone then you should be absolutely committed to them, so in my opinion marriage is showing that you mean it when you say that you are in love with that person. Actions speak louder than words and getting marriage and marriage itself is an action so if you say "I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you" then show that and actually commit to that. Of course I'm not saying that you absolutely have to get married within a few years of dating someone. Life is situational and marriage might not be the best thing for a couple at the time but eventually situations are going to get resolved and then what are you going to do? In my opinion if you want to spend the rest of your life together then show it and if you have your doubts about that person, why are you with them? Why are you worried about falling "out of love" with someone if you're madly in love with someone? If love is a commitment then how can you fall out of commitment with someone? People don't just suddenly change.

And finally think about your family. Is it really secure for your children do just be partners? Anyone who is a child of divorced parents knows that divorce takes it's toll on the kids and what you want is to bring your child up in a secure environment so they can have the best start in life, not a relationship where neither side has shown their commitment to the other person.

In the end I think marriage will be absolutely amazing and I fully look forward to meeting my amazing wife and spending the rest of my life together. I also look forward to the challenges we'll face because they'll grow us and, let's face it, without challenges it'd get a bit boring.

I'm a Christian and I believe that my faith has shaped my view on this topic but I think my argument applies to anyone, religious or not, and hopefully everyone will get someone out of it.

And once again I mean no offense with this

 

[Julianking93]

On a personal standpoint, no I don't believe there to be any reason to marry someone other than to proudly show to the public that you're committed to someone... but why exactly must you do that? I don't know, it's just another one of those things you silly humans do.

Seriously though, no there really isn't any reason. The people I know who are/have been married have only ever answered the question of "Why did you get married" with a blatant "For the money" response. It all comes down to financial security masquerading as a symbol of love. That may be a very cynical way of looking at things, but it seems to be the truth to it, to at least a certain extent.

It seems to come down mostly to money, legality and showing others you're committed to another.

 

[jboking]

snip

I have a question. Don't prenuptial agreements solve most of this issue? There's a way to protect yourself from getting super fucked over, some just choose not to follow that path. That means they accepted the risk even though there was a safer method. It's like having unprotected sex when you don't want a child. Now naturally, getting divorced can still cause a lot of emotional distress, but so can the ending of a long term relationship outside of marriage. It's not marriage that ruins things, it's acting irresponsibly that does.

 

[jacx]

your supposed to enjoy your partner as a person and friend, however people get married for more shallow reasons. preaviously the meaning of marrige depended on your cast in life... as for my personal views 50% of marriages fail for a reason nuff said

 

[Canadamus Prime]

This is just me, but whenever I see someone arguing against marriage, I assume they are a teenage boy, or they have the maturity level of a teenage boy.

*And after checking the age of everyone else that has posted, and finding the oldest of you is 22, I kind of stand by that.

...if that.

OT: I view marriage as a symbol. The solidification of a bond you hopefully have come to share with another human being. It's the formal establishment of a commitment to someone else, to stand by them and always be there for them in times of need, to love and cherish them. Like I said, a symbol.
I don't think it has anything to do with religion, since I'm an atheist.

 

[pulse2]

Snip

My point being that the wall of benefits you put up happens to be the same wall that brings down the credibility of what marriage is even about to begin with. If you were to convince me to get married for example, that wouldn't be what you would use in order to do so would it? If even so much as reading halfway though that gets tedious, it could only be frustrating if someone were to preach those very same benefits to your face. I understand why you were replying to the other guy and I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the list of benefits you put up, and yes, it is boring, why? Because it's the same thing that society rambles on about day in day out and spends little time pointing out the love and commitment side of a relationship, its those very factors that leads one to believe that people jump into a marriage because it provides a series of financial, tax and economical benefits, like mortgages and adoption.

Why should anyone feel pressurized for example into getting married just so they have a higher chance at adopting? Whats wrong with living with a partner you love and treasure who also wants to raise that child. How is a married couple any more stable than a couple living together but not married? There equal chance of the child growing up happy or unhappy in both situations.

Why should the love you feel for someone be publisized? Whos business is it other than yours and those who know you? Sorry for making this sound harsh, but I personally couldn't care less if you were getting married, I wouldn't want to know unless I knew you personally, then again, I have no issue with you personally so I'd wish you all the best the same way. Why people feel the need to let everyone know they are married bears little logic to me (speaking mainly of celebrities here), you, tom, jane or fiona getting married wouldn't make me any more keen to get married, if anything I'd be more turned off by the idea, I don't want to feel like I'm jumping on the bandwagon because of the pressure everyone around me is putting me under. 'IF' I was to marry my gf, it would be in my own good time and it would be of no one's business, futhermore, I would feel every right to get annoyed if we have been together for a while and people begin to ask when we were getting married, freinds or family alike, why do you care? So we can be happy? Who said we already aren't?

As for the 'marriage is the last step' arguement, according to whom? Law? Religeon? History? Who sat down and decided that everyone should be linked in holy matrimony for the rest of thier lives? A theme that humans have since followed blindly with this notion that it is the 'last step'. Who's last step? And why does it have to be the last step? I wouldn't love my gf any more than I do now if I got married to her, I'd love her all the same, so what difference would it make to my relationship, other than bragging rights and the ability to put the same surname on all of our contracts, etc? Being unmarried is not stopping us from raising a happily family, people do it all the time. That whole concept would leave me struggling to understand how a single mother or father raises thier child if they aren't happily married if marriage is the only key to a happy family. Says who? Who said that marriage was the key to happy families? I have yet to see a child who has grown up happy purely on the basis that thier parents are married :/ I was under the impression that it took a great deal more to raise a child beyond being married, if anything, being married is so trivial to the upbringing of a child, it need not be mentioned. If my parents were living together but not married, I would still be the person I am today, it would make absolutley no difference except for the circumstances we may be living in due to the wall of benefits you pointed out.

And let me stress again, I have no personal issue with marriage, I may one day marry my gf, right now it isn't at the top of my priority list, simply because I'd rather wait and know for sure it is worth plunging into with the love of my life, rather than being the everyday fool who marries and doesn't consider the consequences, only to be divorced shortly afterwards, all that does is defeats the entire principle of marriage and makes me pity those who haven't bothered to consider why they REALLY want to get married, other than the potential benefits.

 

[Sarahcidal]

i have been with my husband for 8 years.. we actually just got married 3 months ago .
we wanted to have a small ceremony to declare our love.. largely because we arent notmally vocal about things like that. (he doesnt share emotions very often and i'm a total tomboy) we both wanted to get cleaned up and have a huge party with our closest friends to celebrate our spending the rest of our lives together.
we grabbed 20 of our closest friends and hit niagra falls.. we all looked great, got some amazing pictures with everyone that will last a lifetime, and everyone had a complete blast. (the ceremony was non-religious and our officiant was hilarious.. he was so fun and even joked about how nice my boobs looked.. exatly the low-key good time we wanted.. i wore combat boots wth my shortened dress, which my husband thought to be completely sexy)
i think the point is to have a blast with those you love, get memories to last a lifetime and get beautiful pictures to keep forever.
/end cheesy blather

 

[yamitami]

While religion has had a hand in marriage it is first and foremost a matter of economy. Just like how nowadays the taxes for a married couple are less than the combined taxes of both single partners, even back in the time before written history it was helpful. One house costs less to maintain than two and so on.

It also has biological reasons, which apply to any monogamous animal even if the monogamy is seasonal. It takes two penguins to keep their egg warm, two human parents are more secure than one. With monogamy the dad knows that the baby is his and so will take a selfish interest in keeping his bloodline going.

But of course there is cheating, even in the animal kingdom mind you, and THAT is where religion comes in. By making marriage something official it made it stronger, and what's more official than the word of god(s)? It's an extra security net. Same reason why most religions, living or dead, take a stern view on incest (outside of the gods and royalty at least). Biologically incest is a bad idea, so that is reinforced by religion to make the rule more real.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Well, first off, marriage is not strictly related to religion. People have been getting married before Christianity even existed for example. Non-religious people usually don't have a religious ceremony in a church, they have what's called a civil ceremony. And they can chose where they have this ceremony, ei. City Hall, outdoors etc.. So they don't employ the church's services at all. I don't know where you got the idea that marriage has to go through the church.

Second of all, from your post, I'm going to assume that you don't know that marriage is actually a legally binding contract that the government recognizes. There are a couple benefits to this: like certain social services, certain tax breaks, also can make a joint bank account that can come with lots of other financial benefits.

And thirdly, and this is probably the most important point of marriage, is that it's a commitment. When you marry someone, your basically telling them in a fancy, and elaborate way that you will love, and support them, and be faithful to them for the rest of your life. If you think of marriage in a cold, rational way, then you will never understand. You have to use your emotional side. I really hate to pull the age card, but how old are you? It's likely that you'll understand this concept when your older.

Gotta agree with you mate =P Ill just say that yes, marriage may not be logical, but really, does everything have to be? When you start talking about everything having to be logical and not wanting to do something because its illogical, to me you just start giving off the impression of trying to hard to sound smart. Marriage is really one of those emotional things, you have to stop being such a logical automaton and try wondering if life can be more than just birthing children and dying. Its all good if you want to stay together without marriage thats completely fine, but marriage at this stage is really the ultimate expression of love, (unless its for money or something) when its genuine, its a beautiful thing

 

[Kadamon]

A ring on a finger is generally a thing to ward away potential douche-men trying to hit on your wife.

There, gave you a reason.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

This is just me, but whenever I see someone arguing against marriage, I assume they are a teenage boy, or they have the maturity level of a teenage boy.

*And after checking the age of everyone else that has posted, and finding the oldest of you is 22, I kind of stand by that.

Good to see you respond to peoples opinions by going: "you're to young to understand' rather then raising a valid point.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Funny, I was raised Catholic, in Ireland. The thought of not getting married at some point in my life never really crossed my mind. In fact, the idea of being over 40 and not being married seems kinda bizarre to me. It's like falling down the stairs: inevitably, at some point in your life, it'll happen to you. That's what my dad always said.

I suppose the ultimate point of marriage is as a kind of social shorthand for lazy people: a married man is a mature man.

By mention of rings, we don't wear our rings. I basically use/used mine as a prop. I used it to symbolize our connection during the ceremony, and wear it out to family get-togethers, since they like seeing me wear it. He doesn't wear his because his work doesn't allow it.

Out of curiosity, what sort of job doesn't allow wedding rings?

 

[jboking]

Snip

My point being that the wall of benefits you put up happens to be the same wall that brings down the credibility of what marriage is even about to begin with. If you were to convince me to get married for example, that wouldn't be what you would use in order to do so would it? If even so much as reading halfway though that gets tedious, it could only be frustrating if someone were to preach those very same benefits to your face. I understand why you were replying to the other guy and I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking the list of benefits you put up, and yes, it is boring, why? Because it's the same thing that society rambles on about day in day out and spends little time pointing out the love and commitment side of a relationship, its those very factors that leads one to believe that people jump into a marriage because it provides a series of financial, tax and economical benefits, like mortgages and adoption.

This thread should indicate in numerous ways that that is NOT the way people view marriage. They do view it as a symbol of love between two people. Is that what you would prefer it be?

Or would your rather that there be no benefits. Clearly, they are evil and causing people to jump into marriage when they shouldn't, according to you.

Why should anyone feel pressurized for example into getting married just so they have a higher chance at adopting? Whats wrong with living with a partner you love and treasure who also wants to raise that child. How is a married couple any more stable than a couple living together but not married? There equal chance of the child growing up happy or unhappy in both situations.

I don't think you understood the argument I was making. It's a matter of biological duty. Adopting is not matching your biological duty. Having a child is. However, if you want to understand why a marriage would be the best place to start in founding a family with a child you might want to read this:

http://www.helium.com/items/1211739-children-need-stability

I made sure to get a short one for you as you don't seem fond of reading for long periods.

Why should the love you feel for someone be publisized? Whos business is it other than yours and those who know you? Sorry for making this sound harsh, but I personally couldn't care less if you were getting married, I wouldn't want to know unless I knew you personally, then again, I have no issue with you personally so I'd wish you all the best the same way. Why people feel the need to let everyone know they are married bears little logic to me (speaking mainly of celebrities here), you, tom, jane or fiona getting married wouldn't make me any more keen to get married, if anything I'd be more turned off by the idea, I don't want to feel like I'm jumping on the bandwagon because of the pressure everyone around me is putting me under. 'IF' I was to marry my gf, it would be in my own good time and it would be of no one's business, futhermore, I would feel every right to get annoyed if we have been together for a while and people begin to ask when we were getting married, freinds or family alike, why do you care? So we can be happy? Who said we already aren't?

Ever herd of the idea of sharing your love for someone with the world? Ever loved someone so much you wanted to tell everyone? It's that basic idea. It's also an assertion of commitment, which you haven't addressed yet as an issue. Also, no one is trying to make you get married. Where did you get this idea? Do you feel happy for the seemingly happy couple that got married? Think they love each other very much to go through with all of that? Then marriages job is done. It's like setting your love in stone for everyone to see instead of just keeping it as something more abstract. It makes it feel more permanent and gives it a physical manifestation (a ring).

As for the 'marriage is the last step' arguement, according to whom? Law? Religeon? History? Who sat down and decided that everyone should be linked in holy matrimony for the rest of thier lives? A theme that humans have since followed blindly with this notion that it is the 'last step'. Who's last step? And why does it have to be the last step? I wouldn't love my gf any more than I do now if I got married to her

you mean to tell me that if you got married, you wouldn't feel more attached to your girlfriend. I. Call. Bullshit. Anyone who has ever been through marriage can tell you they feel more attached to their significant other afterwards

I'd love her all the same, so what difference would it make to my relationship, other than bragging rights and the ability to put the same surname on all of our contracts, etc?

Go back to the whole, it being more concrete argument from above.

Being unmarried is not stopping us from raising a happily family, people do it all the time. That whole concept would leave me struggling to understand how a single mother or father raises thier child if they aren't happily married if marriage is the only key to a happy family. Says who? Who said that marriage was the key to happy families? I have yet to see a child who has grown up happy purely on the basis that thier parents are married :/ I was under the impression that it took a great deal more to raise a child beyond being married, if anything, being married is so trivial to the upbringing of a child, it need not be mentioned. If my parents were living together but not married, I would still be the person I am today, it would make absolutley no difference except for the circumstances we may be living in due to the wall of benefits you pointed out.

I made it a point in my last post to make sure I said "It makes it more likely," not that it's the only path to a child's safe development. do try and read what I wright. Also, the above article will probably shed some light on why a married family (or at least a family with two loving members [which I made room for in my previous post, but let's keep pretending I didn't, as you seem to be]) is a better environment for a child.

And let me stress again, I have no personal issue with marriage, I may one day marry my gf, right now it isn't at the top of my priority list, simply because I'd rather wait and know for sure it is worth plunging into with the love of my life, rather than being the everyday fool who marries and doesn't consider the consequences, only to be divorced shortly afterwards, all that does is defeats the entire principle of marriage and makes me pity those who haven't bothered to consider why they REALLY want to get married, other than the potential benefits.

Most people aren't getting married quickly out of the idea of 'benefits.' This is a misconception that I will need you to post some evidence for in order for me to believe it. Otherwise it is just you assuming.

[HEADING=2]You know what happens when you assume. You make an ASS out of U and ME.[/HEADING]

 

[IMakeIce]

Eh...if you don't get it, you won't get it.

This

 

[emeraldrafael]

Snip

I dont think it is essential. Marriage means there maybe divorce. I think a constant state of dating is better, because then you can just dissolve it.

Though you can have a civil union (what homosexual people get). So that removes the religion from it, which is so much nicer in my opinion. So I would say Civil Unions are nice, but not Marriage unless your religious or want a marriage. If you do, thats fine, I just dont see the greatness of it either.

Especially since there are field wedding things too where you remove the church and hold it in a field with you, the wife, parents of both, and ring bearer and priest. and even then, you only need a judge really for that civil union. Thats what I and my Gf wnat to do at least.