"There is nothing wrong being racist"

[CroutonsOfDeath]

Hrm. There is something wrong with being racist, to be sure - but as much as I hate to say this, racist folk have the right to exist so long as they learn to understand "live and let live" and keep it to themselves. It's weird for me to say that, because I have a certain scorn for prejudice people, primarily because I've dealt with prejudice from all angles. I'm black and of direct African descent, my parents were Lesbians and my non-biological mother is from Israel, I'm married to a Japanese woman and none of us believe in the local religion of Mormonism; and Mormons born in Utah, are not friendly to foreign non-mormons. It's strange that Mormons born OUTSIDE of Utah kick ass on the other side of things....

But with that said, I don't give two shits if the man I'm talking to is racist so long as he can tolerate me and fume about it during his or her personal time. I'll admit I came to that decision whilst I was working with an Indian woman named Gita. I knew she wanted out of the States desperately and back to her home country, but I still always wondered why she would never talk to me unless work demanded it and acted nervous around me and even more nervous around my wife. She started freaking out and said "Do you want me to be honest?" And so I said yes, and Gita admitted that she heavily disliked blacks, Americans/Brits/Englishmen in general, Mexicans (Though she seems okay with Spaniards, afterall her husband was Spanish.), and especially Asian countries besides hers. She said that she learned to keep them bottled around us, because she still thinks it is wrong to hurt others but then said that if she wanted to stay that way - I should leave her alone. I was not happy to learn that she was racist as hell, but... I respected that she would not attack, emotionally or physically, us and would tolerate us so long as we just respected her personal space.

Also, I suppose I should also point out that my wife is heavily prejudiced against Koreans. I wouldn't call her "racist" she will tolerate them and while she is uncomfortable around strange ones, she will get to know them and some she is friends with - she is actually quite close to my adopted sister, Ha-Young but she admittedly just doesn't care for Koreas relations with her country, and was raised by a mother who was vastly more racist than she was - and she has another reason she is uncomfortable around Koreans, but I would be violating my wife's privacy and wishes if I spoke of that reason.

 

[Launcelot111]

In my corner of the country, there are a lot of overtly and illogically racist people who openly hold grudges against black people and to a lesser degree mexicans for no reason, which is a clear definition of prejudice. There are also a lot of people who don't have any such feelings as those, but who sees that the average minority in our area has been less generally successful in life than the white people, but in a predominantly white area with no successful black figures to refute the image of blacks that they have constructed from their surrounding. They thus look down on blacks in general because they feel that blacks will be less successful than themselves. I hear a lot of "that man is so well spoken" whenever you see an interview with a black person on TV who is able to construct a sentence with some semblance of english grammar and structure. This is not actually a rarity in my county, but so many people feel it is because they have come to expect that it is. Blacks are being looked down on, but I feel that this is a prejudice borne of misinformation rather than true ignorance.

I am curious as to what degree of racism people see in this situation, as I feel that it's a reasonably common way of looking at things, but I know too many people who I like but feel this way, so I'm too close to look very objectively at this.

 

[MoNKeyYy]

I think you need a new friend.

Sorry that's all I have to contribute, but that's a sincere suggestion.

Yeah this is....well, this. This guy doesn't deserve friends. Or he should have a flag stapled to his butt and mailed to Iran, we'll see how he likes racism then.

Or you should have punched him out. I would have. Where do you live mate?

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Actually, biologically and anthropologically speaking... the concept of "race" among humans is so blurred its nearly impossible to catagorize. The supposed "racial" differences are less varied than male and female and even something so simple as living at different altitudes has a more noticable effect, biologically speaking.

So really, racism goes about as far as "You look different." and no further. Anyone claiming it has more depth is wrong and twisting facts to support their bias.

Most supposed "racial traits" are misinterpreations or flatout ignorance of socio-economic influences rather than simply being born, its all "self-fulfilling prophecy" logic.

Wait. Why would humans be any different from any other species? Are there no differences in intelligence levels in pitbulls vs german shepherds? Is there nothing racial in the difference between boa constrictors and rattlesnakes? Perhaps the difference between a baboon and a chimpanzee is nothing more than a difference of socio-economic influences? Are the differences in lions to tigers simply a difference in altitude?

Look, I understand how this is a dangerous path to take. I understand that acknowledging a difference in the races is scary and can easily end up in some very unsavory places. It's easy to get to racism from acknowledging differences in the races. All it takes is to see a difference and then try to determine the various benefits each race sees. Maybe group X has a lighter skeletal structure than group Y. Maybe group B shows an aptitude for upper body strength unseen in group A. It's easy how you can take this simple curiosity and desire to know generalities and extrapolate them to X supremacy.

But it's not going to end it. Recognizing differences in groups of people does not make one group better or worse than another. It doesn't negate the inherent value of human life. Let me explain how:

Would you consider a person with downs syndrome to be less of a human being than, say, Albert Einstein? The difference in intellectual ability is enormous, but the mentally handicapped are no less human, no less deserving of compassion and dignity than someone mentally superior. What about the differences between an amputee and an Olympic gold medal winner? Is the amputee worth less as a human being? No, of course not.

So why, precisely, would a person be of less value simply because their genetics show a predisposition towards, say, diabetes? Or stronger musculature? Or emotional outbursts? Or intellectual ability?

There are differences between the races. This is neither a shocking nor bad thing. It's a thing that is and must be acknowledged if there's to be any harmony between the races.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Because the validity of someones opinion is based on their race? Because white people are willfully ignorant or blind by virtue of being white?

Actually, yes. If you're in a society where white is privileged, you're not going to find it as easy to understand how much racism there is towards those who are not white. If you're not usually on the receiving end of racism, you're unlikely to understand how prevalent and pernicious it is as well as someone who is. This is not a difficult concept. "You can walk a mile in my shoes, but you can't walk a step in my feet."

So because I am white, I am not able to see or understand racism as well as someone on the receiving end of it.

That turns racism into an invisible dragon. Somebody points to the distance and says "There is an invisible dragon there, you cant see it because you don't have magical sight like me." Maybe there really is an invisible dragon there, but I'm not going to start fireproofing my home until I get some better evidence.

Not quite. You have lots of evidence of people saying, "this thing is happening to me", plus lots of statistical evidence (race demographics of people stopped and searched by police, unemployment rates, poverty rates, hate crime reports etc.) Racism's not invisible; I didn't say white people couldn't see it or understand it, I said that white people were more likely to underestimate it's prevalence and perniciousness because it was less likely to happen to them.

So, when I do see people being wilfully ignorant or blind about racism, I guess they're probably white. I don't think I'm usually wrong in that.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Let me help change your mind.

A white woman has a child with a black man.

This child is constantly taunted and abused by strangers because of her skin colour, she has had people spit at her and tell her that she is scum.

The mother of this child can not understand what this child is going through because she is white? The mother who has to wipe the tears from this child's face. The mother who would defend her daughter to the death from racist fuckers, but because she is white, she can not 'fully' understand?

How dare you.

Edit: I realise this may come across as too harsh, so apologies for any offence caused, this was not my intent.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that it is not as easy for white people to see how much racism there is and how bad it is because it doesn't happen to them. That is, white people can understand racism, but they experience it differently because they're not usually the targets, and if you're underestimating or writing off racism, you're probably white.

 

[StANDY1338]

I honestly think when we are at the point where we can persecute people for their belifs and still take the high ground society is failing.

If someone hates chinese people its bad... but then if you ask them why and they say they were abused as a child by a chinese person. Then you feel sorry for them. I don't think people should be hated beacuse they belive something that just smells of tyriny to me.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I don't think being racist is right but at the same time its only as bad as other things like not liking gingers its just the public has a worse look on racism. I don't care if a black person insults me for being white anymore then if he called me ugly or something. Racism isn't good at all but I don't know why people are so offended by it when they are fine with other insults.

 

[Yopaz]

So honestly I don't see anything wrong with being racist as long as you don't actually do anything to enforce your beliefs.

Also if I were to beat up a black guy because I am a racist how would that be worse than me beating up a white guy because I'm an asshole? We are hypocrites in this. It's wrong to judge someone on their life choices, religion, ethnicity or beliefs unless this belief means you're a racist. So basically what we are all saying by frowning upon racists is that every belief is right but theirs. At least racists are being straight up and honest about it. Now let's pretend that I believe that we should stop immigration (from a biological standpoint I don't) to avoid different ethnicities from "polluting" our blood. That makes me an idiot, but as long as I am not doing anything illegal how am I a bad person? Should I be punished for my opinions even if I don't act upon them?

 

[Sean Hollyman]

Imo, it's ok to have some bias and prejudice inside, as long as you don't actually say or do anything harmful to the people you are prejudiced again.

For instance, I'm not too keen on gay people, but I don't go round saying gay people suck or anything like that.

 

[Crazycat690]

Well technically, even if it's very ignorant and dumb to be a rascist, as long as you don't do bad stuff because of it I suppose there's nothing wrong with it. It's like, I mean if you're a pedophile, you can't do much about it, but as long as you don't go out raping children we shouldn't crucify him. Althought it should be alot easier to "cure" a rascist.

Really, this just shows how underdeveloped humanity still is :/

 

[Fertro]

With 7 billion+ people in the world today, it's natural that there are those who dislike other races. Just like it's natural that there are those who into Bestiality, Paedophilia and the like. Sure it might not seem 'right', but people are what they are, no changing that. So, no I don't care if somebody is a racist. I might be being biased, simply because I am a kind of a racist towards select 'types' of races. For example, the gangster blacks; the ones who say ****** at least 3 times every sentence, their pants are down around their ankles, act as if they're the toughest cocksucker on the block and blast rap from their car stereos. Them, I absolutely despise. The others are the native Aboriginals of Australia. This one is justified, I suppose, simply because I have seen first hand how the majority of them act, and how they truly cheat the system. Quite a lot of them spend their Centrelink (More or less Wellfair) on drugs. If they run out of money before the next fortnight, they ask for more, and surprise surprise, they get it, no questions asked. If they don't receive the money, they call discrimination. There was a community not far from my house, where they got a $20,000 grant to paint a mural. They got the money, and the blew it all on barbeques and more drugs. [/rant]

 

[-Samurai-]

Gotta love all the people preaching tolerance while being intolerant of someone with different views.

 

[Booze Zombie]

What he's saying when he goes "there's nothing wrong with being racist" is "there's nothing wrong with me". It's not an arguement, he's defending a point of view he doesn't want to be wrong, because then he'll be wrong and he's defending it very poorly, I might add.
"It simply isn't, I say, good sir!"

I very strongly dislike racism, it just reeks of ill-informed judgement and bias, two of the most annoying things to encounter in all walks of life... but I digress.
Question him as to why he's racist and say that if he can't justify it to you, how can he even justify his behaviour to himself.

Gotta love all the people preaching tolerance while being intolerant of someone with different views.

Tolerance also has levels of acceptability, so you can tolerate one bit of behaviour (being racist) but you can't tolerate something else because it's intolerable (racist violence), for example. This can be based on personal beliefs, group belief but there is no universal standard for what should and should not be tolerated.

Tolerance of everything is indifference, tolerance of nothing is loathing. That is, they're both not tolerance.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Gotta love all the people preaching tolerance while being intolerant of someone with different views.

Tolerance is putting up with something.

If a racist starts hurling their hate filled ignorance around, I will put up with it, but not without telling them how fucking stupid they are for still holding such neanderthal beliefs.

 

[-Samurai-]

Gotta love all the people preaching tolerance while being intolerant of someone with different views.

Tolerance is putting up with something.

If a racist starts hurling their hate filled ignorance around, I will put up with it, but not without telling them how fucking stupid they are for still holding such neanderthal beliefs.

So then hurling your "hate filled ignorance" at them is somehow different than them doing the same? You're discriminating against them for discriminating against someone else.

Come on, guy. I've seen you around. You're smarter than that.

 

[Fishyash]

I would not befriend a racist personally, especially considering I am mixed race myself. If I found out that a friend of mine was racist, I would definately look at him differently, and not consider him a friend anymore. That attitude is pretty much disgusting. The fact that he starts getting angry when you would put me off even more.

I feel nothing but pity for racist people, it's because they don't know any better. Racism is usually a matter of stupidity and unwilfulness to understand. However I wouldn't punch him in the face or anything, only people who are extremely public or hateful to people in their face deserve such treatment. If he merely keeps it to himself, and shares it with you sometimes, I think.

In general, I don't befriend hateful people. If I somehow befriend a hateful person and they start showing it, it will normally cause an argument. I have no respect for hateful people, and I will definately not tolerate the thought of being friends with one.

 

[SilentCom]

This would have been funny except it is real.

 

[SciMal]

So, do you have any racist friends and what do you think about them? Personally, I think I can't look at my friend the same way anymore...

Most of the older generations in my family are racist. My grandfather, my father, even my mother was racist against Mexicans.

My mother had the largest impact on me, as she won custody after the divorce, and for a while I was racist against Mexicans/Hispanics until my late teens. After I caught myself being ignorant and biased one too many times, and not believing I was like that, I decided to change. I found the first thing I did was simply displace the racism into other bigoted opinions. Emos, Obese people, idiots, Bible-thumpers, etc. More "acceptable" groups to rag on.

Then I simply got tired of hating indiscriminately. It messed with my mojo, my inner calm. It was a caustic fuel which ate away at me even as it ramped me up. So, I switched from hating to laughing. Now I laugh every single day - at stuff which is probably not funny to most people. I feel happy, and while I still feel the burning hot rage of a thousand Suns occasionally, it's usually subjected to an individual or specific group which has displayed they are nothing but the opposite of everything I stand for (re: TEA Partiers booing the Golden Rule).

I would venture to say that I'm more egalitarian when it comes to dating than most. I've dated caucasian, Thai, Black, Puerto Rican Mixed, and I know much of my family is racist because they give me shit about it.

It's never bad shit - it's not overt, harsh racism. It's just something underneath the cracks. Something that doesn't fit in with their world view and because they are polite, loving people, they address it in the way they see as polite. Everybody in my family - and I have a very large extended family - married within their race. I currently live in Salt Lake City - which is about 92% Caucasian. My immediate family has spent practically all of their adult lives living in the suburbs around SLC, and expanding horizons is for young folk.

I understand their racism, and since it hasn't exhibited as damaging - I find most of the women are able to deal with it just fine given a heads up. However, I think there's also a mutual understanding that I don't really need them - and that if they did do anything which I found insulting to my core, I'd have no problem dropping all communication with them. I'm the type of person who doesn't take that crap for very long, and have no problem simply cutting the person spewing it right out of my life.

However, my understanding of their racism isn't to say that I think racism is fine or implies that there are benign (or even beneficial) types. Racism, ultimately, is constructed out of stereotypes - reinforced by stereotypes - and produces stereotypes. It is self-perpetuating. Stereotypes are an incredibly simplified template that our minds use to assess an unknown person's qualities and capabilities before we are given a chance to understand them. They are necessary for our function; but the difference between a racist stereotype that leads to hatred and gross generalization and one that leads to indifference is simple.

People are are venomously racist are the ones who apply a stereotype which they have allowed or encouraged themselves to develop above and beyond simple phenotypic cues, and then defend it at all costs. They ignore exceptions, lambast others who disagree, and refuse to spend the energy required for understanding. Sometimes this is done out of pure laziness, which sounds like your friend, and sometimes this is done out of pure fear - which usually provides bombastic results when pushed.

That is in stark contrast to, as an example, my personal process. My initial stereotype applied to other people is "human" - which is correspondingly vague and carries wide-ranging connotations about personality and capabilities. It's often mistaken for apathy (which should say something about how others expect to be treated based on their looks), and means that I ask a lot of questions. Unfortunately, the last bit takes time, effort, and the willingness to find something in common.

As a result, many don't. Then, they justify their lack of effort. Usually via excuses like "positive racism," "racism is unavoidable/necessary," "if nobody's hurt it's okay," "I've been this way forever so there's no need to change," and whatever angle they want to play it at.

Your friend sounds he doesn't know what to think, actually. He sounds like he's in limbo. He's dating/dated a black woman and supposedly hates "niggers." That type of really obvious and blatant hypocrisy usually means there's something else going on and he's in a period where he's trying to define himself - via arguing with you, via current trends he was predisposed to, and attempting to find the easiest path to a personality he can accept.

Your job should be to serve as an example, force him onto a more difficult path, or drop him altogether if he's made up his mind.