This is Why Criticizing Anita Sarkheesian is Irrelevant and Pointless

GladiatorUA

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generals3 said:
I forgot to add "and those who didn't see her videos" to the potential supporters. I have quoted her in many threads to prove that assertion and there are so many passages in her videos proving it i still wonder how people can ask that question. But being in a very arrogant mood instead of going through the effort of copy pasting text (again...) from her website i'll just say this "watch the videos".

And yes, traitors. There is no better word to describe a gamer who thinks unproven propaganda is a reason to guilt devs into doing certain things. It's showing 0 respect to video games and their makers. I've tried my fair share of diplomacy but it has been painfully clear: Anita's supporters don't care about facts. They only care about their goal and the method to get there is irrelevant. Lies, demonization, fact fabrication, it's all ok because it's for the "wimenz". It's white knighting pushed to its extreme.
I watched the videos as they came out. Both parts of Tropes vs Women in video games. I wouldn't support an idea I know nothing about.

"Unproven propaganda"? What is unproven? That the tropes are overused? That society influences media and media influences society?
What's wrong with guilting developers for lazy writing?
It's not 0 respect. The fact that the aspect of their work is being criticized means that their work matters enough. Is this not a form of respect?
What facts?
What "lies, demonization, fact fabrication"?
And it's not for "wimenz". As I said, I want better writing.
 

Xanex

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NightowlM said:
generals3 said:
Ahahahahahahaha. She's a joke, "these reactions show the male privilege in the gaming community". It's like she's a cartoon figure. A cartoon damsel in distress at that, she can't help but show how much she's a victim of the ebil internet. Come on white knights rescue the damsel!
Yes because criticizing actual cases of male privilege in gaming is exactly the same as being a damsel in distress. How the fuck do you get "she's acting like a victim" from criticizing sexism in gaming. And you're a joke if you honestly believe that "white knighting" is anything but something that lazy asses made up rather than having an actual debate on sexism.
When she trolled 4chan to deliberately provoke the backlash so she can play victim and get sympathy money she lost any credibility on being a victim. She was even called on it in a CNN interview and she couldn't even respond to the reporter.
 

Loner Jo Jo

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I honestly find these debates on Sarkeesian appalling, especially on sites like these that are dominated by men. Yes, there have been others on this forum defending Sarkeesian or at least feminism, and I would sincerely like to thank you for that. However, I have a couple issues here.

One, is the biggest complaint against Sarkeesian is that she makes "inflammatory remarks"? Let me break this argument down for you. If that tweet was inflammatory in any way, I would like to know how. Yes, she was sarcastic, but she didn't call for riots or murders or anything violent or ridiculous. All she did was point out how there were no games with female protagonists. It's only inflammatory to those who are privileged, or men. And even then, not all men have a problem with Sarkeesian. Many freely admit that she makes a valid point. It's only those who either take issue with females or the feminist movement that really have a problem with her.

You may say, "No, it's honestly her," but I seriously doubt that. If she was complaining about Xboxone's DRM policy or even something petty like "this game looks like it sucks," no one would give two shits about her. No man would comment say "Shut up," "You make my dick soft" or "Why don't you get a cooking and cleaning game instead?" No one. It's only because she points out the misogyny in gaming that she gets this retaliation. It's not about her and her style of delivery or knowledge on the subject. It's about her being a feminist talking about women's issues in gaming.

Furthermore, I am tired of this victim blaming line of thought. One, I do not think she is trying to play the victim. If she is doing anything manipulative, it is the possibility that she is baiting narrow minded and petty men. She makes a feminist comment, and suddenly she gets all of this harassment based solely on the fact that she has a uterus and is talking about games. Then when she puts all of the derogatory remarks in board daylight for everyone to see, it's her fault she got them in the first place? Excuse me, but it is my opinion that if the issues she addresses didn't actually exist, then there would not be a single comment of this nature from anyone, or certainly not as many as she got. Honestly, it would be one thing if she received well rationed, polite arguments, but she didn't. Even the ones that did not automatically target the fact that she was female usually ended their argument with "dumbass" or "shut up." Of course, this whole argument I just made rests on the notion that a woman's right to freedom of speech doesn't count, at least not when addressing women's issues. Naturally, this is ridiculous. Sarkeesian can make any statement she damn well pleases. Just because you don't like it doesn't make her opinion invalid.
 

Smeatza

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Miss Sarkeesian said:
Below are some of the Twitter replies to that observation which exemplify the male privilege and male entitlement endemic in the gaming community today.
Some responses said:
Shut up
Who cares?
Nobody cares
Talk about making an issue out of nothing
Why exactly do video games need to have female protagonists?
Since when did apathy or ignorance decisively show privilege or entitlement? Or are we just taking advantage of people less educated/intelligent/compassionate(lol) than ourselves?

Some hilarious responses said:
Relax, it'll all be over soon.
Women don't belong in video games
Maybe if women were more intelligent and capable at life they would lead more video games, like super floral arranger
were you expecting a cooking and cleaning game?
Yep, no boobs
I suppose it's only fair she feeds the trolls considering that's how she got famous.

Some legitimate points said:
We all know that had a game had a female protaganist, you would have bitched about it being "a man with boobs" or some bullshit
Are you working on a game? Or do you just expect other people to do what you want if you pout enough?
Big Deal. Video game companies are not social movement groups
Having a female protagonist just for the sake of having one is just as bad as not having one at all
Admittedly there is some aggression in there, but that's what you get when your style/videos is/are deliberately inflammatory.
The fact she groups these comments in with the trolls and the annoyed says volumes about how dismissive she is.
 

CHUD

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GoaThief said:
We need to stop giving her attention, she seems to thrive on it.
Hope so, she's certainly getting MY money - this latest storm of Anita-bashing just proves further there is a genuine need for what she's doing.
 

CHUD

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generals3 said:
Ahahahahahahaha. She's a joke, "these reactions show the male privilege in the gaming community". It's like she's a cartoon figure. A cartoon damsel in distress at that, she can't help but show how much she's a victim of the ebil internet. Come on white knights rescue the damsel!
Playing the "White Knight Card" already? Sorry, but it's quickly becoming more a badge of honor than a shameful mark.

I mean, regardless of what one thinks of feminism today (relevance, methods, agenda, whatever) - how does exposing genuine sexism in a media, going deeper into the matter than anyone else, and making fairly intelligent arguments about it - make oneself a "cartoony damsel in distress?".

She has more than proven there is a dark, anti-woman side to the industry / fandom. How about adressing that, rather than trying to shame her and those women AND men who agree and support her into silence?
 

Xanex

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CHUD said:
generals3 said:
Ahahahahahahaha. She's a joke, "these reactions show the male privilege in the gaming community". It's like she's a cartoon figure. A cartoon damsel in distress at that, she can't help but show how much she's a victim of the ebil internet. Come on white knights rescue the damsel!
Playing the "White Knight Card" already? Sorry, but it's quickly becoming more a badge of honor than a shameful mark.

I mean, regardless of what one thinks of feminism today (relevance, methods, agenda, whatever) - how does exposing genuine sexism in a media, going deeper into the matter than anyone else, and making fairly intelligent arguments about it - make oneself a "cartoony damsel in distress?".

She has more than proven there is a dark, anti-woman side to the industry / fandom. How about adressing that, rather than trying to shame her and those women AND men who agree and support her into silence?
I'm actually quite amused by the implied sexist hypocrisy of white knighting. When they so viciously defend a female feminist like Anita it implies that she is weak because she is female and cannot defend herself.
 

Zombie Izzard

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The-Traveling-Bard said:

http://jennytrout.blogspot.com/p/jen-reads-50-shades-of-grey.html?m=1

Trust me when I say their are plenty of women who bash 50 shades for the abusive pos it is.

OT: If she really wasn't a troll then why feed them?
 

puff ball

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i get the feeling at this point Anita could post anything on twitter and get nothing but hate back

Anita: bought a burger today but they forgot the fries #lame

random internet guy: your an entitled c#@t

mansman323: why don't you go in the kitchen and make some yourself then.

note i am not condoning this nor am i trying to say this is a non issue, im just saying this stuff seems to follow her.
 

Something Amyss

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erttheking said:
Everything is open to criticism
Yes, and you have the right to free speech, even if that speech is inane or in some cases harmful. I think you're missing the point. You may have the right to criticise her, but it is ultimately pointless to do so. At least, in the fashion the majority of critics are doing.
 

Xanex

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puff ball said:
i get the feeling at this point Anita could post anything on twitter and get nothing but hate back

Anita: bought a burger today but they forgot the fries #lame

random internet guy: your an entitled c#@t

mansman323: why don't you go in the kitchen and make some yourself then.

note i am not condoning this nor am i trying to say this is a non issue, im just saying this stuff seems to follow her.
While there is some truth to what you say. I don't think it's because of who she is. Ghandi could tweet about peace and understanding and get some trolling back.
 

CHUD

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Xanex said:
I'm actually quite amused by the implied sexist hypocrisy of white knighting. When they so viciously defend a female feminist like Anita it implies that she is weak because she is female and cannot defend herself.
So, for a man to defend, or more accurately, *side* with a cause whose primary figure is currently a woman - it implies that the woman in question is weak? Or that the man in question is ONLY siding with her BECAUSE she is a woman?

Interesting line of thought. Wonder if it applies to other areas than feminism / anti-misogyni? I have yet to see accusations of "White Knighting" being made when men defend Ayn Rand or Thatcher and what they stand for.

These women can (could?) certainly hold their own, true, but so can Anita. And I would disagree that a man siding with HER proves her weak (or the man to actually be patronisingly over-protective of his "fair maidens") any more than doing the same in the other examples would prove THOSE women to be weak.

In other words. I think you are wrong, and that this argument is just another way to try and shame anti-misogynistic men into shutting up and submitting to the MRAs and Anti-Feminists.
 

Gameguy20100

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OK I need to ask.

Who the fuck is this ***** anyway?

oh a person thinks video games are sexist so fucking what? we get claims like this all the fucking time what makes her so special?

I Mean she hasn't done anything to me so I don't care what she does.

Besides if she is my enemy didn't a wise man once say the greatest Insult an Enemy can suffer is to be ignored
 

The_Scrivener

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Madara XIII said:
The_Scrivener said:
I didn't compare the two people. I compared two situations where the greater issue was of obviously greater importance than nitpicking the pointless details/minutia that people get caught up in.
Regardless, her latest Tweet just seems to seethe with inflammatory material as if she's trying to spark something. Why do we give this Twat attention anyways?

I don't particularly care for her and her horrible representation of feminism. Christ almighty, half the time she utters anything about sexism she makes herself look like the stereotypical feminist most misogynistic males paint them out to be.

It's just painful to watch.

And in response to Anita's idiotic tweet totally disregarding Mirror's Edge 2

Calling her a 'Twat' (all caps, nice touch) is a great way to show off how open-minded and unsexist you are.
 

CHUD

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Father Time said:
Ok where is the proven anti-woman side to the industry that she's shown.

And complaining that there were no women protagonists in the conference is not sexism it's just complaining that they aren't making games you want to see. It's no different than complaining about a lack of horror games (if there was a lack, I didn't see that conference).
Where is the anti-women side to the industry? Heh. How about SEEING some of her videos it's pretty clear there's plenty of sexism to be found.

And as for her speaking up about there not being any female protagonists. Well, I agree that in itself this might not be sexism (it is also wrong, I'm very much looking forward to Mirror's Edge 2). However, it is a "legitimiate" pet peeve for her to have, and I've certainly seen Twitters made from bigger "celebrities" on looser grounds.

BUT, the loads of vile responses IS another proof of there being plenty of misogynists among gamers. Her twitter did not warrant such hateful responses, and neither is she "the cause" of the anti-woman sentiments these repliers show - these people are chauvinistic get-back-in-the-kitchen-and-leave-gaming-to-the-menfolk types *all on their own*.

So well, THERES your sexism! Not really so hard to spot, eh?
 

The Deadpool

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Seriously, just because jackasses are flaming her, doesn't mean she trolled... Not her fault they were jackasses.

On the other hand... She didn't say jack about Microsoft. She complained XBOXONE had no female protagonists, missing the whole Mirror's Edge 2 thing. She is good at this though. Her arguments are well spoken and calm enough to get people who already agree with her to back her up and have enough small mistakes to get her genuine complaints... She gets TONS of hits from both sides.
 

Madara XIII

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The_Scrivener said:
Madara XIII said:
The_Scrivener said:
I didn't compare the two people. I compared two situations where the greater issue was of obviously greater importance than nitpicking the pointless details/minutia that people get caught up in.
Regardless, her latest Tweet just seems to seethe with inflammatory material as if she's trying to spark something. Why do we give this Twat attention anyways?

I don't particularly care for her and her horrible representation of feminism. Christ almighty, half the time she utters anything about sexism she makes herself look like the stereotypical feminist most misogynistic males paint them out to be.

It's just painful to watch.

And in response to Anita's idiotic tweet totally disregarding Mirror's Edge 2

Calling her a 'Twat' (all caps, nice touch) is a great way to show off how open-minded and unsexist you are.
Aaaaaaaand!?
Male or Female, if someone's acting like a twat, I'll still call them one. The fact that you were looking for sexism in my post is quite sad to say the least.
IDC what she is, male, female, trasgender, she simply posted something to start a shitstorm and low and behold one did brew.

my post was less about gender and more about the ilk that Anita's posted
 
Jul 13, 2010
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Legion said:
Scummy reponses from scummy people (the twitter trolls), but it's pretty tiresome how she pretends its because she is a woman criticising games, rather than an issue people have with her specifically as an individual. She has a persecution complex of an almost astounding degree, or else she is just a very clever and manipulative person.

People go onto twitter and tell celebrities that they wish that their kids would get cancer and other nasty things, it doesn't "prove" anything at all. Except that anonymity causes people to act nastily, which most of us have known for years.
Difference is she isn't a celebrity, she's just someone who's been very vocal about sexism in the medium. Even then, there are many celebrities who certainly have more available avenues for public feedback and yet don't get this level of bile directed at them on regular basis. Some of it may just be 'twitter trolls', but Anita gets why to much of this for me to believe they account for even half of what's being said.

Legion said:
Or to put it another way, if somebody such as Susan Arendt had said what Anita did, she would not have received these kinds of responses. If it was purely down to misogyny on behalf of gamers, then this kind of thing would happen to all who complain about it, not just a select few.
Well no, but I can't imagine many of these types of people are aware of anything Susan Arendt says to begin with. I certainly can't see any reason why any of those people who attacked Anita for her tweet would not attack anyone else saying exaclty the same thing, it's just that on this issue Anita seems to be the loudest voice right now, so she is the one everyone is responding to.

The Deadpool said:
She complained XBOXONE had no female protagonists, missing the whole Mirror's Edge 2 thing.
No actually, as pointed out before, she specifically said no games with female protagonists were unveiled during Microsoft's presentation, which was correct.