This scare the shit out of anyone else?
- Thread starter ShakyFiend
- Start date
What happened to respecting your enemies? Bin Laden was fighting for what he believed in same as us. I think in taking him down they did good. But there is not a real reason to hate the man. except now nobody feels bad about just shooting him in the head.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that his death was necessary, I just don't think its a reason to celebrate. Then again, I also think having fun is always good, no matter the context so I haven't really made up my mind
Don't get me wrong, I understand that his death was necessary, I just don't think its a reason to celebrate. Then again, I also think having fun is always good, no matter the context so I haven't really made up my mind
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King Jr
Yeah, I know I'm British and so a lot of people would say I don't have a say in this, but fuck celebrating this.
I am glad that he's dead, I can do that, I can be happy that someone who caused so much hate and anger and retaliation which led to more hate and anger is dead, but that doens't mean I have to celebrate, I don't rejoice. I even find it quite hard to see this as a positive thing. Well done, after a decade of death and horror, you finally managed to kill an old man, who will doubtless be avenged in return.
'Returning hate for hate' took America into Afghanistan, it resulted in thousands of deaths, civilian and otherwise, and I don't think it's hard to argue, with the rampant rise of Islamophobia, that returning hate for hate multiplied hate.
So I'm glad that an evil man is dead, but I'm not about to start celebrating.
Yeah, I know I'm British and so a lot of people would say I don't have a say in this, but fuck celebrating this.
I am glad that he's dead, I can do that, I can be happy that someone who caused so much hate and anger and retaliation which led to more hate and anger is dead, but that doens't mean I have to celebrate, I don't rejoice. I even find it quite hard to see this as a positive thing. Well done, after a decade of death and horror, you finally managed to kill an old man, who will doubtless be avenged in return.
'Returning hate for hate' took America into Afghanistan, it resulted in thousands of deaths, civilian and otherwise, and I don't think it's hard to argue, with the rampant rise of Islamophobia, that returning hate for hate multiplied hate.
So I'm glad that an evil man is dead, but I'm not about to start celebrating.
Can't say I was exactly impressed with the street parties. I mean, I get it, but really, its still in bad taste.
You're not fighting a real war, or anything to claim real victory over, so its all just a bit odd to actively celebrate the death of one guy. It doesn't make you look much better than the 'other side'.
You're not fighting a real war, or anything to claim real victory over, so its all just a bit odd to actively celebrate the death of one guy. It doesn't make you look much better than the 'other side'.
While I think the world is better off without him I still can't justify taking someone's life unless it is an absolute last minute decision to stop that person doing harm to others. Even then my response is to imprison the person or set them apart in a different society that is seperate from the world (a little extreme, but I think halving the British population by taking out all the idiots would be a start).
I dunno, it's a bit hard to explain. I'm glad he's gone for the safety of others, but I'm not in a celebrating mood, partially because I can only see bad things to come from this, but moreso because deep down I have something yelling "people shouldn't die, not matter what the cause". Scrutinise as you will, I'll just be in my hippy land, smoking flowers and chillaxing up a tree...
I dunno, it's a bit hard to explain. I'm glad he's gone for the safety of others, but I'm not in a celebrating mood, partially because I can only see bad things to come from this, but moreso because deep down I have something yelling "people shouldn't die, not matter what the cause". Scrutinise as you will, I'll just be in my hippy land, smoking flowers and chillaxing up a tree...
Well because I'm not America, maybe I just don't understand but I stand by my opinion. Maybe barbaric is a bit harsh but I still think celebrating any murder, no matter who it is, is wrong...rsvp42 said:
I'm with you in the sense that I think it's base and crass to cheer in the streets for anyone's death. But there are a lot of base and crass people. However I make exceptions for those who lost loved ones to events of 9/11. I think they have every right to celebrate if they want. When I heard about the celebrations, it conjured up the song from Wizard of Oz, "Ding, dong, the witch is dead!"
Anybody's joy ought to be tempered by the awareness that this one man set off a chain of events resulting in the death of not just American soldiers and civilians, but also hundreds of thousands of Muslims. None of them can be brought back by his death, and the ruined lives of the people left behind will not suddenly be restored. Simple death is not justice enough for that.
Anybody's joy ought to be tempered by the awareness that this one man set off a chain of events resulting in the death of not just American soldiers and civilians, but also hundreds of thousands of Muslims. None of them can be brought back by his death, and the ruined lives of the people left behind will not suddenly be restored. Simple death is not justice enough for that.
Our military men and women continue to prove Bill Hicks wrong about them. I've heard some of the most reasoned, balanced, thoughtful and humane opinions out of our soldiers. If there's one positive thing to come of 9-11 it's that, despite the best efforts of the worst pundits, most Americans can separate those who put their lives on the line to defend us from those who send them to their deaths, sometimes for all the wrong reasons. Now, let's get to work on improving the Vet!mkg said:I'm actually in the military and I was sitting thinking about this same thing when I heard the news yesterday morning. While it's good that justice has been served, and I understand the decisions not to take him alive or bury him in a marked grave, I still can't fathom that people would celebrate a man's death. Especially when we've sacrificed so many of our own in the process, not to mention the countless civilian and friendly foreign military casualties. It seems like a very pyrrhic victory, in my opinion. But what we have to understand was that this was a very powerful symbol in this on going war we've been waging. No one cares when you take out equally threatening but unknown targets. This was almost a confirmation to some if we are really on the right track. My greatest fear is now that they've reaffirmed people's faith in this ongoing conflict if we will replace UBL with some other sufficiently scary figure head and the islamic world's retaliation against our attack.ShakyFiend said:So, Osama, Ok death of a international hate figure aside etc etc if anyone deserved it he did and so on, thats not what worries me. (although isnt it a bit odd how the US can stroll into a country and execute who they like?)
The troubling thing is thisand
and to be honest, this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/editors_note/8844-Editors-Note-Better-Than-Before] as well which is what prompted this thread.
And this is happening all over the US, people are actively celebrating killing a guy? Does that not seem a bit medieval to anyone else? When people turn out in their thousands to celebrate something like this it justs worries me like hell.
Anyone else? Or are you all patriotic Americans and whatnot?
You're "scared" because you have a warped idea of the United States. Osama bin Laden was the boogeyman for an entire generation, and now he's dead. Will this affect al-Qaeda's operational ability in the short term? No, he's just a figurehead. But that's why everyone's celebrating: the man they unequivocally associate with terror and death has been eliminated. These people are not ready to storm into Afghanistan and mow down civilians, and they're not going to hijack airliners and fly them into buildings in downtown Riyadh.
A second reason for the celebrations is that the killing of bin Laden shows that there really is no hiding from us. You can last for a while, but we WILL get you. In the face of all the America-hate the rest of the world constantly vomits every time we twitch, I know I saw this as a big "fuck you" to the rest of the world. Mocked for a decade about not being able to find "a frail old man", when it turns out that he was possibly being hid with the assistance of a so-called friendly nation. Then suddenly, 24 Navy SEALs bust down his doors and kill everyone without a single casualty, using US intelligence from US-cultivated leads. Alert Pakistan? Fuck that! He's less than a mile from their military academy! That's just a little bit suspicious!
So bear in mind that we are not celebrating the death of one man. I'm glad that his remains were handled in accordance with his beliefs. I know that the burial at sea is not a preferred method of burial for his beliefs, but it was carried out to the best of our abilities. I'm celebrating the destruction of the symbol that opposes everything I stand ready to defend. The symbol of people willing to kill me because of who I am, not what I've done. They've taken it upon themselves to be judge, jury, and executioner, and as the wrongly accused, I'm glad to see them fall.
A second reason for the celebrations is that the killing of bin Laden shows that there really is no hiding from us. You can last for a while, but we WILL get you. In the face of all the America-hate the rest of the world constantly vomits every time we twitch, I know I saw this as a big "fuck you" to the rest of the world. Mocked for a decade about not being able to find "a frail old man", when it turns out that he was possibly being hid with the assistance of a so-called friendly nation. Then suddenly, 24 Navy SEALs bust down his doors and kill everyone without a single casualty, using US intelligence from US-cultivated leads. Alert Pakistan? Fuck that! He's less than a mile from their military academy! That's just a little bit suspicious!
So bear in mind that we are not celebrating the death of one man. I'm glad that his remains were handled in accordance with his beliefs. I know that the burial at sea is not a preferred method of burial for his beliefs, but it was carried out to the best of our abilities. I'm celebrating the destruction of the symbol that opposes everything I stand ready to defend. The symbol of people willing to kill me because of who I am, not what I've done. They've taken it upon themselves to be judge, jury, and executioner, and as the wrongly accused, I'm glad to see them fall.
It's not the organisation, it's the idea that is the 'enemy'. And ideas are bulletproof. Apparently, this still hasn't sunken through to a lot of people, not even after a decade of full-on exposure. Hence why the cynic in me chuckled, shook his head and smiled when seeing all those Americans celebrate like madmen.ZeZZZZevy said:
Actually they wanted to apprehend him, but he resisted arrest and they had to shoot him. A shame really, and a clever move on Osama's part. His death only made him more influential, his message only more powerful.rsvp42 said:
Also, even if it would be a targeted killing, it's still a killing. It's still celebrating the killing of a man. That core doesn't change. But that's how humans are, so whatever.
I certainly don't believe in celebrating his death. I can see why few do, though. He represented the face of evil, and now he's death.
I, and the rest of my family, and my rational friends as well, are more realistic about it. I posted these messages on Facebook after I found out he was dead:
"There are worse motherfuckers still out there." and "We haven't removed the head of the snake, we merely removed a fang."
Both of which rings true. They have people (far more diabolical than even him) that can easily replace him, if they have not done so already. So instead of celebrating, we have to be a bit more careful. The snake is still alive, and boy is it pissed.
*EDIT* Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's dead, we need fewer like him on this planet. It's just, I'm not going to lie and say that since Bin Laden is dead, it's over. It's not.
I, and the rest of my family, and my rational friends as well, are more realistic about it. I posted these messages on Facebook after I found out he was dead:
"There are worse motherfuckers still out there." and "We haven't removed the head of the snake, we merely removed a fang."
Both of which rings true. They have people (far more diabolical than even him) that can easily replace him, if they have not done so already. So instead of celebrating, we have to be a bit more careful. The snake is still alive, and boy is it pissed.
*EDIT* Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's dead, we need fewer like him on this planet. It's just, I'm not going to lie and say that since Bin Laden is dead, it's over. It's not.
I'm a non-violent guy for the most part. Also, I'm not American, so I have no personal stake in this. I didn't cheer when I heard Osama was killed. But I honestly can't say I hold it against those who did/do. If a guy declared war on my people, orchestrated attacks that killed thousands and led an organization whose goal (one of them, at least) was to wipe out my nation, you can be damn sure I won't mind seeing him gone.
Okay, so I kind of get what people are saying about, death should not be celebrated, and that this won't change anything, and we should respect the dead.
But this Osama killed thousands of innocent civilians without a second thought. He didn't just accidentally kill them, no, he was gunning for them, because he was too much of a coward to face a real opponent. This, thing, is not a man. It is a monster, worth less than dirt.
Now I am an American, so this is somewhat personal for me. But really, any terrorist or murderer, who kills innocent people who can't even fight back, is the same to me, no matter who they kill.
Some people don't deserve redemption. So yeah, I believe it should be celebrated. I know it sounds bloodthirsty but it's the truth.
But this Osama killed thousands of innocent civilians without a second thought. He didn't just accidentally kill them, no, he was gunning for them, because he was too much of a coward to face a real opponent. This, thing, is not a man. It is a monster, worth less than dirt.
Now I am an American, so this is somewhat personal for me. But really, any terrorist or murderer, who kills innocent people who can't even fight back, is the same to me, no matter who they kill.
Some people don't deserve redemption. So yeah, I believe it should be celebrated. I know it sounds bloodthirsty but it's the truth.
Pretty much. Can't remember who, but someone the other day here said something to the effect of "the only thing bigger than America's ego is the holier-than-thou attitude every other country seems to have about it." And that pretty much sums up my feeling about that issue.lord canti said:
As for celebrating bin Laden's death - I don't think some of you people realize this is the guy that is indirectly (but intentionally) responsible for God knows how many thousands of civilian deaths. For it to be murder he would have had to have been human, but he was something less than that. Excuse me, I'm going to get a drink and blast "AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!"
Enjoy? We can't think without being told we're wrong anymore. That's why we say "screw what other people think."lord canti said:
I love your username, by the way.
OT: I didn't celebrate, but the rest of my floor did. It was funny.