Too Many Buttons

[Rect Pola]

Good points all around, but there's another issue with complex controls you didn't touch.

The most complicated Nintendo game I've run into was Metroid Prime on teh Cube. While I do appreciate the sense of mastery when I became one with the controller, I made the mistake of putting it down for a while. A month later, I had to start over to get my skills back. I could have started a second game, but for every little function I'd reach were I was anyway.

 

[Collymilad08]

No. Sorry.

Total BS. Anyone who think's a console controller has too many buttons doesn't deserve to play games. If you can't be bothered learning 8 buttons (d-pad doesn't count as it's bloody obvious), then you can just give up as far as I'm concerned - not ruin it for everyone else by dumbing it down.

I find it extremely hard to believe that people who have jobs and go about their daily lives without problems have a hard time using a console controller. It's just laziness, plain and simple. It's typical though, the "majority" don't like something (i.e. the people who don't really give a crap about gaming who were brought in by the Wii), so let's just take it down to the lowest common denominator, eh? Pff.

 

[The Bandit]

If I wanted to play with Doom's shitty control scheme I'd go play Doom.

 

[RikSharp]

I think there's a much simpler solution that makes everybody happy and to see it look at the way I learned how to game. When I was a kid I started out playing Super Mario Bros. I had a controller with a d-pad and two buttons that allowed me to move left and right, jump, run, and attack. Over time i mastered this set up and when the Super Nintendo cam out i moved on to Donkey Kong Country, now I had a controller that had four face buttons a d-pad and two triggers, but that wasn't two big a jump from what i had started on and i soon mastered that. As gaming progressed the controllers got more complex but I evolved with them as I played. I'm betting that this is how alot of other twenty something gamers learned how to play. The solution to having too many buttons for new gamers to figure out how to use is not to map a complex game onto a simple controller. The solution is to make simpler games that use less of the inputs and let them slowly build up the skill we have all spent years learning. And the fact is this is already being done on x-box live and PSN. Games like pixel junk monsters and everyday shooter use few of the inputs sometimes only two or three. These are good "starter games" for new gamers to learn how to use the joysticks and maybe a button or two. Being thrown into all the inputs all at once can be intimidating for new players, but it's just a matter of building up their skills not axing the controllers.

see now i was thinking this the whole way through the article.
fast paced fps games are not designed for beginners to gaming. they are also not designed for my mum to play, don't know about yours...
i first learned (properly) how to use dual analogue with a lovely little game called Ape Escape on the ps1. i got my other half to play this game (well, the sequel on ps2 at least) and now she can use a controller. more recently (she still doesnt play games by the way, but i am trying to convert) i got her to try the demo of brütal legend as it explaines the controls, one at a time and gives a chance to practice with them. this is more of what we need, good explaination and practice time, not more complicated controls on less buttons.

 

[shadow_hazuki]

A lot of hostility going on in this thread, we need to simmer down folks, seriously.

Calling each other idiots or hating on what we believe to be "stupid" ideas isn't going to make our point more valid. :\

Anyway, as I recall reading earlier someone saying that "mistake equals instant death" is what turns off most to FPS. Yet the person talking about it was talking about Tactical FPS, in which they try to make it as realistic as possible, and if you make a mistake in reality when fighting terrorists or what have you, you will die.

So, more controls works for games that require them, as others have pointed out. FPS wouldn't last long without controls that provide that ease-of-access, and putting more than 6 controls into any turn-based RPG would just be silly. So its not really that simpler games need simpler controls, I'd say it would have to do more with the pacing of the game.

With the original post's control scheme, I don't think anyone here would be beating any Call of Duty or Rainbow Six, yet we could very well use that on a game like Final Fantasy or many of the Wii's more mainstream games.

 

[Smokescreen]

Again, I think you're taking the article a little too literally if you think the writer honestly thinks we'd be going back to Atari controllers. It's more an example than a serious idea.

Really? Because he spent a page and a half of a 3 page article describing the idea. So if it's more an example then a whole lot of time was invested in it.

I've seen people right longer explanations on even more pointless endeavors. No matter how long or how short, the point remains that the example in the article was simply that: An example. Not an honestly expected suggestion.

An example that got way too much attention instead of working out more practical solutions and expanding on the proper objections. Who cares if you've seen people spend more time on things of less worth-that doesn't validate the time and energy spent on this example. Especially since you go on to agree with me that both articles are underdeveloped in their approaches to a solution.

Basically, I saw mostly just elitism. Perhaps there was some informed post that you're referring to which I didn't see. If that's the case, then feel free to tell me all about it.

You saw elitism because that's all you wanted to see. There were reasonable objections to Susan's article, many of them bringing up the point that developers had implemented (to varying degrees of success) most of the things she'd suggested. Again, the problem is in the development of solutions; instead of getting people excited about brainstorming new ideas there was just a rehash of old ones that weren't working.

Yes, there were those who gave the 'who cares they aren't leet' argument-just as there are here- but if you weren't willing to read through to find the reasonable posts (and I don't entirely blame you for that) then it's harder to sustain your objections. As a side note; I didn't make any sort of leap that said; amateur basketball fans shouldn't have hoops b/c they wouldn't be playing the game the way professionals do. Please don't attribute such insanity to me.

Games-any game, all games-require a learning curve of some kind. Learning something new is going to be the case for anyone and everyone who picks one out to play. Some are going to be more complicated than others, but if it was so easy to give us a controller that anyone could pick up and intuitively know how it worked then why isn't it already done? Unless we want to stop and just all play Bejeweled and nothing else, I don't see how you can take away things like ergonomically designed controllers with an array of buttons.

My argument in Susan's thread-and here-is that there is a lack of mid-step games that allow people to go from the a card game like War to one like Magic the Gathering. Or for videogames, say Tetris to Final Fantasy. The problem isn't the controller; the problem is in the lack of games that fall into that middle space so a learning curve could exist. The controller could have thirty buttons and it wouldn't matter if you were playing a game that only needed you to use 5. Someone upthread pointed out that car dashboards have something like 150 different interfaces, but nobody complains about that interface for a myriad of reasons.

Maybe you agree with that maybe not but regardless of that, I feel that this article spent too much time on a single, not extremely well thought out, proposal instead of looking in the right directions for solutions.

 

[Pillypill]

I prefer a lot of buttons. There's a reason why we have dual anolog control now, it allows you to control your in game avatar to a more accurate interesting realistic and entertaining degree.

 

[SilverKyo]

i already said this once, but apparently no one read it because they just keep right on going with there complaining and whinning, saying this was a stupid idea, so i'm going to post it again. Now read it again, and maybe it'll sink in this time you morons.

Anyone complaining about how terrible this idea is needs to shut up and get a brain. This idea isn't for you, Mr. or Mrs. hardcore gamer on a gaming website talking about video games. It's about people like your dad, who see you playing Halo or Resistance and go "Hey, that looks like fun, teach me!" Then you get the hour of co-op campaign involving you killing everything while trying get your dad to walkin the right direction, but he can't because while he moves forward he is also looking towards the ground, holding both sticks down to move. You people need to stuff it and step out of your own bubble for once. The author might have taken it to an extreme a little (I think most people can wrap their heads around TWO buttons and two functions), but he was just trying to prove a point that almost everyone here uncerimoniously stomped on, chewed off, and ripped out until they forgot what they were talking about anymore, the stupid gits.

 

[Anonymous Overlord]

I have lost count of the number of time the resident evil series has been recommended to me, however i refuse to fight the controller more than the zombies on the scree. in all fair ness I've only tried the latest 2 installments, but the controls were so ridiculous i felt that several tentacles on my hand dedicated to holding down the aim and run button might improve my situation. Not being one to resort to mutagens, i put the game down.

controls are as much a part of the game as story or character modelling, which is why halo is so popular as a series. Accessibility breeds better game play and can make up for poor or lack luster elements (halo story line).

 

[Covarr]

I've never really thought of console controllers as having too many buttons, but PC games (particularly RTS and MMORPG) are really guilty of this. Having every key on the keyboard bound to a different command, as well as dozens of menus for all the other commands, it just makes these games unplayable for people who don't want to invest a significant chunk of their life just to beat the initial learning curve.

Compare this to pretty much any Valve FPS, which are pretty simple to pick up and play. A ten minute learning curve for the controls is a hell of a lot better than a weeklong learning curve.

P.S. Thanks

 

[Roxilla84]

I love the idea of a simpler controller. Not that I can't throw down in FPS's, but I HATE THEM simply because of the controller scheme. Not every thing has to have its own damn button. Context-based controls are easily achievable with current-gen consoles and the creativity that's in the industry now. As an example (just because I was playing this game with my niece earlier): I give you Lost Winds. It uses four buttons, an analog stick and the motion control, and depending on the environment, you get a complex and varied set of controls that still challenge you to figure out the whole game (I'm mostly counting the easter eggs here). The hard part of a game should be the GAME, not memorizing input sets on a controller. The point is, at this stage in gaming technology, we should be focusing on design and functionality in how the game uses the available inputs on the controller, *not* figuring out a way to genetically engineer gamers so we can use a dodecadigited-Power Glove.

 

[Roxilla84]

A lot of the posters so far seem afraid that someone's going to come into their house at night and pry the buttons off of their controllers now. It's kind of a shame to see just how many people have missed the point entirely.

I can hear their rallying cry now (a la South Park): "They took our buttons (they took our buttons)!"

 

[Podunk]

A lot of the posters so far seem afraid that someone's going to come into their house at night and pry the buttons off of their controllers now. It's kind of a shame to see just how many people have missed the point entirely.

I can hear their rallying cry now (a la South Park): "They took our buttons (they took our buttons)!"

"Derpa-da-der!"

Yep. Just like that.

 

[Fearzone]

Ninja Gaiden sigma 2 whose demo I played recently impressed me with how well it automated automatic functions, like when you ran up to a ladder you would automatically start climbing, and how generally intuitive the controls were.

However I want more buttons so we can get more MMOs to the consoles. However there is a multitude of button combos so with good customaizability of the user interface, I think most MMOs could operate with dual stick controllers.

 

[RobCoxxy]

I've been gaming since I was 5.
I am a button master. I can pick up the controls to any game spot on within an hour, and even if I don't play again for six years, stll remember.

 

[Chrissyluky]

very few games have "too many buttons" and those games generally NEED that many buttons.

 

[Bizagon]

It would feel bad to me not having independant movement and view plus I like not having to use every round in a clip befor reloading. Also I think the constant get to cover to use the menu would be really flow breaking. I think that using the sniper from afare would be difficult too with the combat mode/non cobat mode system as it might keep you in non combat mode so you couldn't fire which would be very frustrating. Finnaly I think we should not be striving to make the 360 and the PS3 more casual gamer friendly now that the wii now almost only caters for casuals and Nintendo fanboys I wouldn't want the 360 or PS3 to go the same way.

 

[Bizagon]

Please think about whether or not you want to suffer for your casual gamer family/partner/friends.

 

[Kukakkau]

I thought this topic would be about PC games that use the whole keyboard for controls. But consoles really aren't that hard - 13 combinations that a 7 year old can learn in an hour. Not exactly rocket science