Transgender in Dragon Age Inquisition and Steins;Gate.

[Almgandi]

I'd have to say that the whole trans and gay aspect was not really well done in dragon age inquisition. Unless I'm forgetting something (which might be the case considering I tried to forget Dragon Age 2) before Inquisition nobody in the dragon age universe really cared about who was bumping uglies with whom (atleast not based on the contents of their pants). With Inquisition ,however, suddenly it is somewhat of a major topic considering that one of your party members and a side character are affected by it. And I have to agree with some others here that it just bad and lazy writting to not only suddenly make it a topic and thereby rewrite the world you already built up but also to just throw the hate against homosexuals and trans people onto a nation that is already the worst nation in the game and might as well be called medival third reich. Also Dorian's backstory was just silly. I mean seriously how much effort did it take to take the most general story about turning homosexuals into straight people with "the power of christ" and replace anything that has to do with the religion with the words "blood magic".
I personally liked that they didn't make a big deal about Krem's thing and just show him as a normal person, because that's what he is. Although I can't say I liked the bugger considering that he apparently went against his nation and almost got killed to become a caricature of a man (seriously, do 90% of his dialogues have to be insults/ one liners?).

Also the qunari thing (rewritting them from a strict military organisation into cool people to hang around with?; or alteast not competitors for the "would make hitler proud" award) still bothers me. Also mentioning that female qunari soldiers are a thing despite the conversation with sven in origins and the obvious difference between female and male qunari bodybuild is just stupid. Hell we already have a race in the game that can't choose every class based on their limitations so why does everyone else get to be a special snowflake? (Although this is probably not as bad as the spindly abomonations which dragon age 2 and inquisition like to call elves).


Stein's Gate I've watched a year or so ago and I am kind of baffled as to why it got so popular (then again Elfen Lied is the highest rated show on some sites). The main character was enjoyable, but besides that the show was kind of meh for me. The only really bad thing I can still remember is that the show was kind of harem-ish (considering that the only other main male guy has almost no relevance to the show and is more like a tropy background element than an actual character and the show spends like 6 episodes with the main character being in date like situations with each female character). And on that bases I can't really say that the trans character was good; although mostly because she was probably only in there because they ran out of tropes for love interests they liked and wanted their viewers to have a broader selection of fapping material.

 

[Saetha]

Ugh, I couldn't stand Hale in that role. Every time Krem spoke I wanted to claw my ears off. I mean, that accent, Christ, it's like playing Fable.

But Fable's accents were usually convincingly [and awesomely/gloriously] British, and as good as I found Hale in the role, I obviously wouldn't say she was doing an especially solid British accent.

I'm pretty sure the voice actors in Fable were British, but still I just... there are certain British accents I really, really like, and certain British accents I absolutely loathe and Hale hit on the latter.

 

[s0denone]

Well considering that I doubt anything other than agreeing that you're so right about how something's missing if people aren't persecuting gay people but still care about race and how, despite the differences they all completely agree on homosexuality, and that homosexuality is some great limit on a writer because it's possible some big conflict might result from it, I doubt I'll prove you wrong. I read what you write, I just consider it all poorly thought out and based on little, if anything at all.

Well if you spent more time bothering with these horrid gay characters and their lazy writing of not being persecuted enough, you might have had a conversation or two with Dorian where he vigorously defends his country and considers himself a patriot who reminisces about the good people who knows in the Magisterium and wants to see the hypocrisy and corruption excised. Or you could of dealt with Calpernia, who wants to rebuild Tevinter while freeing the slaves and getting rid of the aforementioned corruption. Inquisition probably gave the most sympathetic light to Tevinter the series ever has.

I really don't understand your responses to his posts. They seem completely out of touch with what he is writing.
RedRyhno would like Dragon Age (Inquisition) to be more interesting and take more chances.

Taking the easy way out and just smearing Tevinter more isn't interesting. Tevinter are already slavers, blood mages, tyrants - now apparently they also have a real-world oldfashioned, religious idea that you can turn non-straight characters into straight characters. It isn't because I (or I would assume RydRyhno) want that homosexuals(or transsexuals, or whateversexuals) should be persecuted by anyone, it is just that it is lazy writing. You know, because it is lazy writing!

Hell, I would have enjoyed some kind of nation in Thedas where homosexuality is praised and revered. That would be interesting, if they found some way to make it believable in the lore. Just like having more general variation in the morals and perspectives of the other countries and races. (Edit: In this case particularly cause many things qualifying as "interesting" were retconned in Inquisition)
Nobody is the bad guy except Tevinter, who was already the baddest guy. The ones who were a little bad were rewritten to not be. It is just lazy!

I thought Dorian was a really cool character. I loved his personality and I think he provided some useful flavour to many conversations that were otherwise rather boring. I kept him in my group for the whole game in my first run, for that very reason. His backstory, however, was one big facepalm moment, to me; while it was relateable in a way, it was simply mindblowingly uninteresting.

Why not add some negative history to other nations? Make the world more beliable? Why is Tevinter simple the be-all-end-all of bad things in Thedas, while these is a distinct lack of tension in regards to sexuality in literally every other country in the world?

Does it have to be there? Absolutely not. Would I have liked it to be there? Absolutely yes.
Is it lazy to take the one instance of sexual persecution you put in the game and attribute it to the already crap, evil nation, and only that? Yes!

 

[Silvanus]

People are angry because a game with a fantasy setting does not feature homophobia enough. A fictional, fantasy setting. Wizards and horned devil-people are believable, but a lack of homophobia is not. I'm quite stunned (not to mention depressed) this is a discussion.

There is no reason the society in-game must reflect the real world in that particular way. It is fantasy. Perhaps gay people should be able to enjoy a little escapist (no pun intended) media without coming across discrimination even there, no?

 

[s0denone]

Well it's good that you would have liked for gay characters to be persecuted in this fantasy universe, at least more so than they already. Some people prefer to allow gay characters to just exist for once without issue and extra justification and extra special stories about them.

But that is what you don't seem to understand!
I would rather gay characters weren't persecuted at all, than being persecuted in the already thoroughly corrupt and tyrannical Tevinter!
It is just lazy and uninteresting and, to me, loses its "omph", if you will.

You seem to infer some kind of want of persecuting in my post, just as with RydRyhnos posts. I think you are completely misunderstanding the point. I am by no means a professional writer, so I likely wouldn't be able to come up with more interesting or belivable stories than the writers at Bioware's disposal - but I would have taken chances. Screwed with conventions. Dial the Qunari up to ten on the extremism scale, instead of toning them down from a nine to a seven, for the third game.
Make Tevinter more than a just a cesspool of mage tyranny. Give them something that redeems them. Some incredible accomplishments. The Roman Empire took slaves everywhere, while maintaining their position as a massive superpower, reinventing popular democrazy, technology and infrastructure. Maybe there are standardized rules for slaves? Slave advocates? Maybe a fringe faction are attempting to create a slave union? Make them stand out in other way than just being "bad guys" and a generic "enemy".

On the subject of sexual persecution, PLEASE READ:
I don't NEED anyone to be persecuted ANYWHERE, but IF it is implemented, just tossing it at Tevinter as another way of emphasizing how terrible the nation is, is LAZY, particularly when it is NOT a problem ANYWHERE else.
If you gave another country a similar mindset in terms of persecution, it adds a more human and thus believeable element to Tevinter. It would perhaps even enable tensions between different countries by itself. A personally involved inquisitior might try to convince a nation of bigots (whether they be sexist, racists or something else) to change their mind, or else refuse them as allies. Maybe an inquisitior would have to choose between the extremely religously devout conservative racists/sexists/homophobes and the social liberal but much less invested. It could be glorious and add tons of spice to the story!

I am not looking for anyone to be persecuted in real life. People can be whatever the hell they please, I just want INTERESTING games. Just like I think its awesome when there are alienages in the game, when dwarvens are subject to not just racism, but being downtrodden and looked down upon by their own race via the caste system. It is awesome!
It enables roleplaying at a much higher level, in my opinion, gives the world and its people a lot more gravitas.

If I play an elf and people are racist towards me, provided it is believable within the universe, is awesome! It touches my character and adds a personal feel to the story of that character. Such is exactly the same when roleplaying a dwarf, a homosexual, a bisexual or whatever.
Being invested in the story is good! Having dilemmas, different perspectives and persecution creates conflict. Conflict creates drama, drama creates tension and tension enhances the narrative.

As long as it is handled in an interesting manner, that is. Sexual persecution was NOT. I would rather it was CUT, than ham-fisted into Tevinter as were they a bunch of idiotic, navalgazing regulars of the Westboro Baptist Church. It is just LAZY, UNINTERESTING and CHEAP.

You may well be of a different opinion, and that is totally okay!
I just post to clarify that this inferred want for sexual repression or somehow bias against non-straight people is entirely unfounded!

Nobody is taking issue with the PEOPLE or their ORIENTATION. Issue is being taken with THE GAME, in particular THE WRITING.

 

[happyninja42]

People are angry because a game with a fantasy setting does not feature homophobia enough. A fictional, fantasy setting. Wizards and horned devil-people are believable, but a lack of homophobia is not. I'm quite stunned (not to mention depressed) this is a discussion.

There is no reason the society in-game must reflect the real world in that particular way. It is fantasy. Perhaps gay people should be able to enjoy a little escapist (no pun intended) media without coming across discrimination even there, no?

I know right? It always amuses me the selective suspension of disbelief people have when it comes to their entertainment medias.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

People are angry because a game with a fantasy setting does not feature homophobia enough. A fictional, fantasy setting. Wizards and horned devil-people are believable, but a lack of homophobia is not. I'm quite stunned (not to mention depressed) this is a discussion.

There is no reason the society in-game must reflect the real world in that particular way. It is fantasy. Perhaps gay people should be able to enjoy a little escapist (no pun intended) media without coming across discrimination even there, no?

I know right? It always amuses me the selective suspension of disbelief people have when it comes to their entertainment medias.

Well after scanning the three pages here and seeing people keep conflating gender identity with sexuality while they're different from each other. I can see why the discussion is happening, I also see a lot of ignorance on the subjects of homosexuality and transgenderism. Just conflating being transgender as the same as being gay, lesbian, or bi is proof of the ignorance. Besides that pointing out the flaws and injustices of homophobia and transphobia is something the LGBT community and allies wants to at least be visible. This is because such things are still a problem, one that most heterosexual cisgender people dismiss out of hand as not a problem due to lack of exposure. It's kind of like how people of a majority race in an area who aren't exposed to open racism think that's not still a problem, as well.

When it comes to Bioware... I've just given up on them as I look back into their old RPGs like KotOR and Jade Empire and realize that they were pulling cop outs and capitulating to external political pressure even back then. What irritates me is that they include a trans character in DA:I but don't let the player character be trans... Yet they have plenty of homosexual characters and the player character can be homosexual. It... Sort of hypocritical and exclusionary. Like the person who says "I'm not racist! I have a black friend!"

Won't comment on Steins;Gate until/unless I play the game, or watch the anime.

 

[Something Amyss]

People are angry because a game with a fantasy setting does not feature homophobia enough. A fictional, fantasy setting. Wizards and horned devil-people are believable, but a lack of homophobia is not. I'm quite stunned (not to mention depressed) this is a discussion.

It's only a realism issue if it impacts my ability to play as a straight white cis dude. I would have thought this would be obvious by now.

When it comes to Bioware... I've just given up on them as I look back into their old RPGs like KotOR and Jade Empire and realize that they were pulling cop outs and capitulating to external political pressure even back then. What irritates me is that they include a trans character in DA:I but don't let the player character be trans... Yet they have plenty of homosexual characters and the player character can be homosexual. It... Sort of hypocritical and exclusionary. Like the person who says "I'm not racist! I have a black friend!"

Oh my god, though. You've seen how people react that a trans character exists. Could you imagine if you were forced (ie could choose) to play as one?

Gotta admit, though, a trans character isn't high on my list of player choices. I deal with having the wrong genitals 24/7. I don't need to play as a character that does, as well.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

When it comes to Bioware... I've just given up on them as I look back into their old RPGs like KotOR and Jade Empire and realize that they were pulling cop outs and capitulating to external political pressure even back then. What irritates me is that they include a trans character in DA:I but don't let the player character be trans... Yet they have plenty of homosexual characters and the player character can be homosexual. It... Sort of hypocritical and exclusionary. Like the person who says "I'm not racist! I have a black friend!"

Oh my god, though. You've seen how people react that a trans character exists. Could you imagine if you were forced (ie could choose) to play as one?

Gotta admit, though, a trans character isn't high on my list of player choices. I deal with having the wrong genitals 24/7. I don't need to play as a character that does, as well.

Yeah, but the best way to shut up the idiot brigade is to make something they detest, well, normal. They can complain all they want, but when their complaints fall on deaf ears and start meaning nothing, when they stop getting their way by whining and crying they'll find something new to complain about.

That's perfectly fine for you, but there are plenty of trans folk who need characters that they can identify with. Not all trans people are gender dysphoric to the extend you may be, or at all for that matter, who will enjoy having the ability to represent them self in the character creators. Even with both of those considerations there is one more thing that's probably even more important, representation of trans people, that representation is powerful. Assuming it's not used as the cheap joke that drag artists use to degrade and devalue trans folk. Trans representation in media is a very important step in normalizing trans folk, rather than letting us languish as the horrible monster that is the unknown factor we are now.

 

[s0denone]

And this is why you shouldn't take one section of my post and remove the rest of it. The Qunari have only been toned down if we take Iron Bull, a member of their secret police and an undercover agent out in the world who winds up showing doubts in the Qun and possibly abandoning them, as representative of the Qunari. The only other Qunari you see are another enemy agent who basically just argues that it's better than being a slave and that you need to let the Chargers die. Actually, that's not true, you do run into a Qunari assassin who was sent to send a message by trying to kill Bull, even though everyone knew that he wouldn't succeed and be killed in turn. You do hear Bull talk about life under the Qun as pretty much like life everywhere else since most people wake up, go to their job, and then go back home, just with an oppressive philosophical guideline and secret police who kidnap you if they think you doubt said guideline.

And, again, Inquisition is the most positive image we've seen of Tevinter. Before Inquisition, Tevinter was that old empire that brought the Darkspawn, enslaved the people, and practiced dangerous blood magic. That was it, from the top to the bottom that's the only image we had.

But now we have Dorian, who tells you of how the upper echelons are just so entrenched in their corruption and obsessions with power that it's difficult to do anything about it. He tells of how the members of the Magisterium who try to fight the corruption and the blood magic tend to be arrested by the Templars on those very charges. He also speaks highly of Alexius and his father who were good men who didn't engage in any of that corruption and blood magic (it's for those with a weak mind) but who succumbed to temptation when life got difficult. At the end of the game, he speaks of wanting to return because he loves his country and he knows that it can be fixed.

Not to mention that there's Calpernia, the potential leader of the Venatori, who is doing exactly what you talk about. She leads a fringe faction of people who want to take control of Tevinter and give slaves more rights and rebuild the once great empire that build the highways and great cities of the continent. And the moment she understands that Corypheus isn't actually going to help Tevinter, she immediately tells you to do what you want because she's going to be busy killing him as a traitor and a threat to her country.

Again it's easy to think of a way to make anything more interesting and glorious and spicy as a story. They made it so that the one time sexual persecution came up, in came up in the situation of someone's sexuality and individuality threatening the ideas of perfection and legacy that a country held dear, because Dorian decided he didn't want to live a lie and marry some woman to produce some heir. Could they have made it more interesting? Sure. But I don't consider making a corrupt relic of a powerful empire also have a problem with homosexuality in certain instances the horribly lazy writing that you seem to want it to be. And, since it came on the wings of sympathetic Tevinter characters and the most positive image we've ever had of Tevinter, the claims that they're making Tevinter more and more evil are shallow.

And they have racism, they have your persecution that so many people apparently need for the story to be considered good. They just don't have it as a universal law for homosexuality, for once.

And as I've said, if someone feels limited because they can't use a character's sexuality as a source of drama outside of a specific instance where they did, they suck at writing because there is literally everything else to create drama from. Hell, being Tevinter brought drama with Dorian as whats-her-name tries to convince you to kick him up for the sake of your image.

And you've done little to convince anyone that it was lazy and uninteresting and cheap in your attempts to ignore every positive image the game gave us of Tevinter for the sake of just declaring that they've been made worse than ever because their obsession with perfection and legacy makes them see any deviation from the norm as a flaw and, reasonably, they consider not wanting to sleep with the opposite sex a bit of an issue when it comes to producing heirs.

You may not take issue with the people or their orientation, but I'd suggest not speaking for people who demand that every game must have persecution of gay people for it to be considered good writing. Because that makes sure that a gay character (or any minority character, really) can never just be, they need to have an extra reason for existence and a special story surrounding their minority status and to make sure that the players who have the same orientation never have the escapism of a story where they're not treated like shit for once.

I'm sorry for not replying to this more in-depth. I don't know what to say, quite frankly.

I took issue with many things in DA:I. Dorians character was not one of them. The homosexual persecution of Tevinter was. It seemed, to me, as a cheap trick. Because introducing a serious concept such as that, in order to just add another layer of negativity to a setting within the game is lazy. If you are of a differing opinion, I respect it completely. I didn't set out to convince you or anyone else of anything, merely to clarify, because I shared some of RedRyhnos viewpoints, and you seemed to infer him be some kind of bigot wishing for persecution of sections of the populace.

Your point about homosexual persecution ruining/potentially ruining the idea of escapism for that subset of people playing the game is a fair one. I will simply have to throw up my hands and say I will likely never be able to truly understand that. I can see what you mean, easily. "Racism" in the game doesn't exist like it does in real life (skin colour) but instead literally different races. It is more fantasy and less real. Persecution based on sexuality would obviously resonate clearer with the player, in a more real way. I get it, even if I will never be one of those people.

It doesn't change my perspective though. I don't want to alienate even portion of the playerbase to introduce such a concept to the game, however. Why not remove it from the game completely?

Why do you not take issue with homosexual persecution existing in Tevinter, but take issue with my prompt of also introducing the concept in other parts of the world?
Why is it a problem when I suggest to either make it more widespread or to remove it?
I want the setting to be believable and consistent. "Homosexual persecution" being added in such an isolated and throw-away manner ruins a little bit of that for me. Not because it has to be widespread for the game to be good or realistic (and the fact that some infer my opinion to be that is fucking disgusting. Shame on you.) but because I need there to be internal literary consistency within the game. It seems like a cop-out to include it like it was.

I think I may well have just re-hashed what I have already written. Maybe I am still (unknowingingly) typing like some kind of bigot; though I hope not.
Regardless, unless you have something new to add cause of this post, I think we are just treading water. I respect your opinions and would like to have a/this debate with you, but I cannot do it in this setting. I am apparently present somewhere where I qualify as an oppressive homophobe. I get really, really angry just reading that, so I will withdraw myself.

Have a nice day.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, but the best way to shut up the idiot brigade is to make something they detest, well, normal. They can complain all they want, but when their complaints fall on deaf ears and start meaning nothing, when they stop getting their way by whining and crying they'll find something new to complain about.

In gaming, that's usually the best way to get them to scream louder. It amazes me this is even a discussion in 2015, let alone a fit. Those filthy gays and transesesssss are being shoved down our throats!

That's perfectly fine for you,

Well, I mean, that was the only person I was speaking for. And the only one I am qualified to speak for. Otherwise, I'm as bad as the token folks who speak to validate why sexism/homophobia/transphobia aren't big deals in games, etc.

I was speaking to what I specifically was looking for. This was not a blanket statement, nor a declaration against such things. However, now that we're on the topics....

Trans representation in media is a very important step in normalizing trans folk, rather than letting us languish as the horrible monster that is the unknown factor we are now.

I have trouble not seeing this as divisive, rather than inclusive. Though, admittedly, I'm not even sure what "trans" options would look like in a game. However, hearing this strikes me as the equivalent of solving bathroom issues by having a third, trans bathroom option. The reality is, most games don't handle player characters in such a way that this strikes me as currently feasible, and the instances I can think of would put focus directly on genitals, something trans activists have been trying to fight.

And if you are cool with that, that's fine. But while what's between my legs distresses me, it still remains my business and should not be the focus of anyone but me and potentially partners. I just can't see implementation into games that particularly helps there. At least, not with the model that is standard in major gaming.

Of course, I'm not going to stop you, either.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

In gaming, that's usually the best way to get them to scream louder. It amazes me this is even a discussion in 2015, let alone a fit. Those filthy gays and transesesssss are being shoved down our throats!

Well they complain, but get nowhere. The exposure still does help normalize the community, I mean this across all media.

Well, I mean, that was the only person I was speaking for. And the only one I am qualified to speak for. Otherwise, I'm as bad as the token folks who speak to validate why sexism/homophobia/transphobia aren't big deals in games, etc.

I was speaking to what I specifically was looking for. This was not a blanket statement, nor a declaration against such things. However, now that we're on the topics....

I never you claimed you were speaking for anyone else.

I was just stating for the record that there are trans folk who'd like to play as trans characters, something very familiar to identify with in interactive media, a way to express your self the way you are in games. To have a character who is something that we can very directly identify with. Also it's a very important form of validation.

I have trouble not seeing this as divisive, rather than inclusive. Though, admittedly, I'm not even sure what "trans" options would look like in a game. However, hearing this strikes me as the equivalent of solving bathroom issues by having a third, trans bathroom option. The reality is, most games don't handle player characters in such a way that this strikes me as currently feasible, and the instances I can think of would put focus directly on genitals, something trans activists have been trying to fight.

Part of the implementation would be of course more diverse physical figures, maybe a character whose voice might slip when they're anxious, or upset. This isn't so much about the genitals, but getting past them, to deeper characters. Also the third bathroom thing is one of those things transphobic types bring up to discredit trans people when trying to ban us from the appropriate bathroom. Especially because the trans bathroom idea completely ignores trans men. The point is that lesbian and gay characters are, while handled poorly, still represented, we really aren't, especially not on the player character level. They can't even get the chance to give us good representation, without first trying and probably getting it terribly wrong, but that is at least a starting point.

And if you are cool with that, that's fine. But while what's between my legs distresses me, it still remains my business and should not be the focus of anyone but me and potentially partners. I just can't see implementation into games that particularly helps there. At least, not with the model that is standard in major gaming.

Of course, I'm not going to stop you, either.

I understand your point, my point is that it's still important to be visible and represented, to show others that we're people to, not mentally ill monsters. The implementation will be bad at first, but we can't expect progress and understanding, without first trying, and making mistakes that can be teaching moments. This happens with all normalization, it started the same for racial representation, gay representation, and tons of other types of representation. The point we should be trying to make is that what is between our legs is unimportant, while making who we are, how we present, and how we feel known as things that should be at least respected.

Well I'm no voice for the Indie gaming scene, let alone AAA gaming, I'm not even a minor pundit in games related media. So there isn't much my desires can do anyways.

 

[Erttheking]

They shove bisexuals and gays down your throat, so why not Transgenders?

If it's not shoving it down your throat, it's tokenism.

Diet-homophobia, as I like to call it.

And before you say anything, yes, what you said was pretty darn homophobic, as I don't see you complaining about all the other games that shove heterosexuality down your throat.

 

[chinangel]

the OP's post got confusing as I read, i feel like the OP isn't sure about their own views on being transgender.

I am transgender and I feel that Crem's portrayal is perfectly normal. And there is a response actually, if you make a snide comment about Crem than Iron Bull will walk up one side of you and down the other. Crem was a very genuine character and Iron Bull was very protective of him.

I haven't watched Stein's gate but the fact it has a transgendered girl in it means that I'm very curious to do so. However, I can sympathize with Ruka in a very personal way, at the same time I would hate it if someone said i was boy because that's how I was born.

Our chromosomes don't make us, and it's pretty rude to reffer to a girl as a boy.

 

[Karadalis]

I think the amount of catering to the LGBT community does not in stand in any way to their relevance as customers and is solely abused to gain "good guy points" with the loud obnoxious tumblr crowd and modern game "jurnalizm" in biowares case.

The characters are bland, uninteresting and blatantly stereotypical and they all feel so... meh. Throwaway token characters.

Why has the gay mage have to look so flamboyant? Why was the mage in DA 2 so hellbent on banging me just because i wasnt a total asshole to him? Why is the bi male character such a blatant beefcake that screams "pandering"?

Oh and about the "just because theres all the other isms doesnt mean there must be anti gay sentiments"

I could believe that if stuff happened behind closed scenes, if it was a thing only the nobility could do without persecution or people in high standing places. We essentially have a world where people are highly suspicious about magic, race, religion and nationality. "Lust demons" are actually a thing and well known to people especialy from the chantry. Yet for some reason homosexuality wich "serves" no other reason then to fullfill ones own sexuality is given the thumbs up aslong as you dont fuck your mate in public?

This dark and gritty world where people die by the thousands of plague, racism, war, at the hand of religious fanatics... where superstition and religious half truths rule supreme is somehow MORE progressive then our own world?

Im sorry but that is completly unbelievable to me.

To give a different example:

Mass effect universe. I can get it that the future is "better" then what we have today, that people are more educated and less biased in a universe where humanity isnt the big player. Where scientific progress has done away with superstition and religion as an outdated and mostly disproven concept of the past.

But the world of dragonage is not suposed to be better. Its a harsh and unforgiving place of primitive people with primitive beliefs who will kill you for being different in race, religion, nationality or generally "being different" then the norm. Yet having an unusual sexuality (and if you compare the numbers, yes homosexuality is still a minority thing, it can in no way or form be compared to heterosexuality in numbers) is pretty much ignored by EVERYONE... including the tievinter imperium who are painted like the giant asshole of the DA world.

Bullshit.

And yes im still bitter that they didnt give more thought to the "romance" with the cute dwarfen scout -.-

 

[Silvanus]

This dark and gritty world where people die by the thousands of plague, racism, war, at the hand of religious fanatics... where superstition and religious half truths rule supreme is somehow MORE progressive then our own world?

Uhrm, only if you're reducing the whole culture to a single sliding scale of "progressiveness", which is simplistic in the extreme.

The world of Dragon Age doesn't feature a certain type of bigoted oppression. One kind. It features others; it's obviously worse in a dozen other ways. Why must they all go together? There's no damn reason it must reflect the real world in this particular way.

This is just people finding a lack of homophobia even less believable than fire-throwing devil-people.

 

[happyninja42]

People are angry because a game with a fantasy setting does not feature homophobia enough. A fictional, fantasy setting. Wizards and horned devil-people are believable, but a lack of homophobia is not. I'm quite stunned (not to mention depressed) this is a discussion.

There is no reason the society in-game must reflect the real world in that particular way. It is fantasy. Perhaps gay people should be able to enjoy a little escapist (no pun intended) media without coming across discrimination even there, no?

I know right? It always amuses me the selective suspension of disbelief people have when it comes to their entertainment medias.

Well after scanning the three pages here and seeing people keep conflating gender identity with sexuality while they're different from each other. I can see why the discussion is happening, I also see a lot of ignorance on the subjects of homosexuality and transgenderism. Just conflating being transgender as the same as being gay, lesbian, or bi is proof of the ignorance. Besides that pointing out the flaws and injustices of homophobia and transphobia is something the LGBT community and allies wants to at least be visible. This is because such things are still a problem, one that most heterosexual cisgender people dismiss out of hand as not a problem due to lack of exposure. It's kind of like how people of a majority race in an area who aren't exposed to open racism think that's not still a problem, as well.

When it comes to Bioware... I've just given up on them as I look back into their old RPGs like KotOR and Jade Empire and realize that they were pulling cop outs and capitulating to external political pressure even back then. What irritates me is that they include a trans character in DA:I but don't let the player character be trans... Yet they have plenty of homosexual characters and the player character can be homosexual. It... Sort of hypocritical and exclusionary. Like the person who says "I'm not racist! I have a black friend!"

Won't comment on Steins;Gate until/unless I play the game, or watch the anime.

I was merely commenting on your point about not requiring a fantasy culture to mirror exactly to modern culture. So that you can have for example, a society that doesn't actually give a shit about homosexuality, and such characters are openly welcomed. To me this has been one of the big appeals of fantasy/scifi settings in games and stories. They can change up the social dynamic all they want, and it's fine. Now, will creators frequently use these settings to make a statement about a current political/social issue, but with the safety of using fictional factions? Sure, has happened for decades, that's nothing new. But they don't have to make a statement about it. They can simply make a society where some of the issues we debate today, simply aren't debated, it's just something they accept and that's fine.

The other stuff about misconstruing gender identity with sexual orientation is another matter all together, and wasn't something I was specifically commenting about. xD

As to your issue with the player character being allowed to be trans...I don't really know how you would code that? I mean, couldn't you just make a fairly feminine looking male body model and say in your own head that you are trans, or vice versa for a male trans? Or just make a female character and say she's trans or vice versa for a male trans? I honestly just don't see how this is something that would be coded. I mean I've seen several trans women, and some trans men, and outwardly, they look just fine as their gender identity. The female trans look female, the male trans look male. So why not just make a gender you want, and say they are trans?

Most of the dialogue is gender neutral, specifically because they only recorded one take of it, so that it would fit with either gender. And the characters usually refer to you by your title of Inquisitor or Herald, which are also gender neutral. So I'm not really sure what you want Bioware to do in that situation. I mean, having a romance in DA:I is totally optional, and isn't a required part of the game, so it's not like they left it out in my opinion. They provided the player with possible mates of either gender, who would also be interested in either gender.

How would you have them implement this trans character that you feel is missing. Because the only way it seems to me that this could be specifically addressed, is to allow the option of your character to establish at some point in coversation: "I'm actually female, even though I look male, I just haven't gone to the necessary blood mage to do my body transformation spell therapy". I'm saying that kind of in jest, because I truly am puzzled with how someone could code what you want. It seems to me that just you the player, identifying your character as trans would fill the bill? Without the need to code some specific aspect into the game. I mean, if we both agree that their gender identity isn't the only thing of importance to the character, and the only situation (that I can think of anyway), where their gender identity would come into direct issue (romance), is optional, what else does a game developer need to do? I'm genuinely curious about this.