Update: Beta Tester Leaks Elder Scrolls Online Gameplay Footage

[Hagi]

Way I see it ripping-off GW2 is pretty much synonymous to GW2-clone. There being inferior differences is very much part of the whole clone thing.

But sure, you didn't literally call it a GW2-clone. The point remains that ESO isn't copying any of it's features directly but is instead continuing a general trend in MMOs.

No, it's not the same thing. You're basically choosing not to read what I say in favor of arguing another, much easier point of view. Textbook straw-man.

Yes, I'm horribly sorry. Obviously a copy and a clone are vastly different things. It's not like they're synonyms or anything.

It's features are not copies of GW2 or indeed any other game. They're certainly inspired by other games, it'd be downright impossible to create a game without taking inspiration from any other game, but each feature is also very clearly it's own new incarnation.

It copies several features from several games. The combat is GW2 mixed with Skyrim, the PvP is GW2/DAoC, the interface is very Skyrim-oriented, the quest system is akin to Skyrim and WoW, etc.

Making small tweaks to the way they worked in older games doesn't mean you made something new and innovative.

It also doesn't make them copies, which is what I'm saying. You said something above about textbook straw-mans didn't you.

It's not something completely new and innovative. I said that. It's an evolution, a continuation.

Not a copy. Not something completely new. A continuation of an existing trend.

It's certainly not a revolution rejecting everything that came before it. But's it's most certainly not stagnation either as you're implying (by saying it's copying and ripping off and worse, in an inferior way). It's simply the next evolution of a current trend in MMOs, whether it's a successful iteration time will have to prove, that's not really up to either one of us to judge.

But saying the game is merely going for an inferior copy of GW2 and other games is simply an ignorant statement to make and shows a lack of perspective on the developments that are going on within the MMO genre.

Which, again, I didn't actually say.

I compared a lot of its features to GW2 because that is something a lot of people are going to do, because (again) they're both action-oriented games in the modern era. You're getting purposely indignant and suggesting I said something that I clearly did not. I can't say for sure why, but I will say that the reaction is rather typical of game fanboys, rather than people who are looking at the game from an objective point of view.

A comparison is fine. But you're not making a comparison.

You're saying it's copying and ripping off GW2. And that the differences that do exist are merely inferior variations on ESO's part. Which I find an ignorant statement to make.

ESO clearly and obviously isn't a copy or a clone. It's features are not copies and clones. Neither is it a completely new and innovative revolution.

It's a next step in an ongoing trend. Whether it's a step in the right direction only time can tell, it may very well fail. But to anyone following the developments of the genre it should be pretty clear that it's not a repetition (synonyms include: copy, clone, rip-off etc.) of previous steps.

 

[Sewa_Yunga]

Is it so bad to want a fantasy version of EVE online?

Maybe you should try out Wurm Online [http://www.wurmonline.com/].

The combat is about as thrilling as in EVE, and it's even more player driven!

 

[Karma168]

Didn't Susan do a preview piece a few weeks back where she said that it was not your bog standard MMO? Seems strange that there would be such a large difference in the 2 takes on the game within such a short time (especially when the later seems much worse)

 

[synobal]

Is it so bad to want a fantasy version of EVE online?

YES.

Waiting days to upgrade one skill at a time... bloody idiocy for an MMO, that's what I say!

Plus we're already FILLED with fantasy MMOs. We need more sci-fi MMOs out there.

Meh anyone who has played eve knows that 'leveling up your skills' is not the primary goal in the game. Your skills are just things so you can be better at a particular aspect of the game. Sure having low skill points sucks but once you're competent in what ever area of the game you're interested in you typically are just training for an extra few percent in something.

The problem is most people don't know how to focus on a goal and work towards it, instead they bounce all over the place and generally end up sucking at everything.

 

[GAunderrated]

Actually pleasantly surprised by how much it's not a generic fantasy MMO.

- There's manual blocking and it seemed quite effective. In the fight he died damage was noticeably reduced when he blocked.
- There's no tab-targeting, although there does seem to be some aim-assistance.
- First-person mode is in and animations likely to follow.
- No quest markers seem to be present, especially no floating exclamation or question marks.
- Full movement during combat, no standing there and hitting each other in turns.
- Stamina-based sprinting is in, which hopefully is not used only for sprinting meaning it'll be an actual choice.
- ES style stealth is in, no turning invisible (besides spells that may be included) and hopefully taking some actual skill.
- ES style alchemy seems to be in, judging by the ingredients found on the starting rats. Hopefully this means all ingredients will be useful and not just high-level ones.
- Challenging? I must admit it's been a very, very long time since I've ever died in the starting zone of a MMO. The tester seemed to die easily when taking on multiple opponents and not doing much to avoid damage besides blocking once.

Certainly many things look like utter shit, the UI especially. But those are all the type of things that can be, and usually are, improved during alpha and beta stages.

The things that can't, the basic combat system, seems to be in working order and actually looks quite fun.

I'll definitely continue to keep an eye on this, it looks more and more promising.

It's kinda sad that so far besides your comment, pretty much everyone else has decried this game as a WoW clone especially since most of the information we have about the game show's that it is more in line with Guild wars 2 in terms of it's gameplay mechanics.

It's why you can't release footage like that before the game shows all it has to offer. If you just show people anything similar to WoW everyone jumps the bandwagon of calling it a WoW without even playing it.

Bethesda should have kept that leak from happening. It seems like everyone gets an "unintentional" leak.

 

[Deathfish15]

It's up here:

http://realgamernewz.com/elder-scrolls-online-april-2013-18-minute-gameplay-footage-leaked/#comment-97751

And yes, it looks like a very generic MMORPG. I mean, I thought I was watching 2008's Age of Conan when they went to the character creation and the dock area. The only thing relative to Elder Scrolls was the lizard lady on the hsip, that's about it. Holy crap, it's junk. And quest NPC's?! Those are GONE! Games have killed them with Dynamic Events and automatic story quests. Mob tagging? What is this, 2005?! UGH!


I think Guild Wars 2 is much more engaging. In the first 5 minutes of that game, you're in a story driven area to kill some bad guys, help a main character in the story arch, and defeat a gigantic boss. In TESO? You go from a boat to a docks area and kill some crabs, scorpions, dogs, and other tiny insignificant junk. In Guild Wars 2, you fight Risen zombies, mad scientist Inquest members, frozen Sons of Svoniar, flame shaman of the Flame Legion, and human spies and gangs...all in the starting zones of each race.

 

[Hagi]

One of which includes blatant rip-offs that retain much of the same design structure as the previous product with the intention of selling it to the same market. That's what TESO is doing. Ergo it is completely accurate to call its recycling of features from other games "copying".

How is that not the exact definition of a clone?

You can continue denying it all you want, accusing me of straw-mans, but that's calling it a clone by any reasonable definition of the word.

Pick one, you're either making this game out to be a blatant rip-off from previous games with nothing truly unique to bring to the table AKA a clone or you admit that it's adding a new twist to existing mechanics, it may not be a successful twist only time can tell that, but it's something different.

But please, stop dancing around the point. You can't claim you're not saying it's a clone in one sentence and then claim it's a blatant rip-off in the next, at the very least try to maintain some internal consistency in your posts.

Pick a position and stick to it. Don't suddenly switch positions every time I bring up a counter-argument and claim you didn't say anything like that in the first place, it's tiresome...

 

[delroland]

Is it so bad to want a fantasy version of EVE online?

YES.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

I didn't manage to watch the footage before it was hit by copyright.

With that said, I have stated previously that they really need to be careful with their pricing model. Risking subscription in this day and age means killing your game off from what I've seen the past few years. SWTOR was the only MMO to fail because of this along with the fact that it was WoW with a SW skin on it.

I've been playing WoW since the beginning and no game that comes out will make me quit the game completely. I have too much time invested in my characters to leave them. Changing the gameplay from auto attack to more "action" like most MMO's I've seen do (TERA etc) will not change my mind.

You either go the GW2 payment style (buy to play) or Free to Play with microtransactions. It seems to be the only way it might work. The ammount of people who are willing to give 15$ / month won't be that great to be worth it. You have more chance of them buying vanity items which is why is very risky because you don't want to become pay to win.

 

[RedDeadFred]

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

 

[Something Amyss]

Sadly, the video's down, so I can't watch.

 

[Yuuki]

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

Every Blizzard launch is like that.

While I'm not excusing Blizzard for Diablo 3 and totally agree they were fucking assholes for pulling such a dick move (a move I didn't think Blizzard was retarded enough to pull), the fact remains that D3 relies on online servers and therefore a huge number of people aren't going to be able to play on launch day.

Other than their immensely server-breaking launches (which also happen to break records usually) no other company has the amount of quality control and customer satisfaction rates as Blizzard.

Bethesda games on the other hand are renowned shoddy QC, I shouldn't have to remind you of the running joke of people discussing their favorite glitches in Elder Scrolls games. The games are ultimately fun, but there you go.

The companies can't be compared in terms of size, history, games made, fanbase, etc lol...totally different levels.

 

[RedDeadFred]

But then, who am I fooling with a Bethesda vs Blizzard comparison, those two companies aren't even in the same galaxy when it comes to quality control

Diablo 3..... Ya I'd say they have some issues with quality control. In fact, I didn't realize there were still people who put them on such a high pedestal.

OT: I was completely uninterested when this game was announced and that remains the case after seeing the comments in this thread (it won't let me watch the video). I honestly can't think of a better way to ruin an ES experience than to put other people into it with you.

Every Blizzard launch is like that.

While I'm not excusing Blizzard for Diablo 3 and totally agree they were fucking assholes for pulling such a dick move (a move I didn't think Blizzard was retarded enough to pull), the fact remains that D3 relies on online servers and therefore a huge number of people aren't going to be able to play on launch day.

Other than their immensely server-breaking launches (which also happen to break records usually) no other company has the amount of quality control and customer satisfaction rates as Blizzard.

I know they generally are more polished but Diablo 3 pissed me off in more ways than just the launch. Real money auction house combined with the huge jump in difficulty when you get to Inferno and the ridiculously low "useful" (you get good drops but so often they aren't for you class) make it feel almost necessary to use the auction house. Granted, I haven't played in several months so maybe they've altered some of this stuff. It just seemed like no matter how much you grinded for gear, the chances of you actually getting something remotely close to what you are looking for was too low to bother anymore.

 

[Ayjona]

The gameplay segments that follow look strikingly similar to 2011's Skyrim, wrapped up with a couple of new MMO elements.

The game looks and plays almost exactly like Skyrim does, but with an MMO-style UI draped over it.

Honestly, apart from the fully voiced NPCs, this game looks like another horribly generic run-of-the-mill World Of Warcraft style MMO.

I'm confused. Does the game look and play like Skyrim, or a horribly generic MMO? hile perhaps not polar opposites, those two definitions are not very compatible.

(The only inclusively logical conclusion is that horribly generic MMOs plays exactly like Skyrim, but with "an MMO-style UI draped over it".)

 

[Frostbite3789]

As I scrolled throughout he comments my mouth dropped lower and lower.
I honestly was shocked people are saying this looks generic.
I'm just reiterating some of the things you said but not many MMO's have
Full combat movement
That style of a stealth system or hell, a stealth system at all
Organic quest acquisition (as organic as it;'s ever been anyway)

I would also add that it looks...well like an Elder Scrolls game.
That's a fairly good example of what Hammerfell would look like I imagine.

Holy fuck I'm excited about an MMO.
Someone, slap me.

You pretty much just described Guild Wars 2. What reason would I have for picking this up over that? Guild Wars 2 doesn't have a sub fee for sure, we already know that. And has more content, because it's been out longer. Also it has even more organic quest acquisition.

 

[Yuuki]

I know they generally are more polished but Diablo 3 pissed me off in more ways than just the launch. Real money auction house combined with the huge jump in difficulty when you get to Inferno and the ridiculously low "useful" (you get good drops but so often they aren't for you class) make it feel almost necessary to use the auction house. Granted, I haven't played in several months so maybe they've altered some of this stuff. It just seemed like no matter how much you grinded for gear, the chances of you actually getting something remotely close to what you are looking for was too low to bother anymore.

Those were intentional game decisions made on a grand scale, not glitches/quality control stuff. I'm sure Blizzard have learned a very harsh lesson, it has me shaking my head because we can't afford to have an iconic developer like Blizzard lose their way when the whole game industry is on the verge of some kind of economic collapse. But yeah, I maintain their QC really is one of the best :S

Anyway why are we talking about D3 when WoW is more relevant to this discussion, the game that Blizzard is the most well-known for...for now lets just assume they're the guys behind Diablo, Diablo 2, Starcraft series, Warcraft series and WoW...D3 never happened! Ha!

 

[Charli]

I cannot believe they're trying to push this out of the door this year to be honest. I'm ALL for an Elder Scrolls MMO but rushing the process will ensure it's forgotten within a month. And so far... nothing new and BETTER brought to the table...