Valve: Modern Shooters "Pander" to Casual Gamers

[Vivi22]

I read that and hear "Valve knows their game won't sell or stand out - decides to make bullshit comment about modern shooters so nostalgic idiots will defend it aqgainst all criticism and buy it en masse"

Tell me I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure Valve could say nothing and just release the game and not have to worry about how well it sells. CS is a popular series, and already stands out just fine by being completely different from every single other FPS on the market.

 

[Ligisttomten]

I would argue that NOT having iron sights panders to casuals. The game that got it right was Killing Floor, no magic crosshairs in the middle of the screen when shooting from the hip.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

this development won't be welcomed by those who enjoy the odd quick, pandering spell of gameplay before they leave the house.

I'm pretty sure that those sort of people wouldn't be buying a CS game in the first place.

I would argue that NOT having iron sights panders to casuals. The game that got it right was Killing Floor, no magic crosshairs in the middle of the screen when shooting from the hip.

That was a cooperative shooter, there's no comparison.

 

[emeraldrafael]

Apparently their games where massively, stunningly innovative. (I never saw it or thought so, but YMMV) I kinda put them in with blizzard a lot of fan wank for being innovative simply by aping things that were done and simply didn't get the bank they did.

There is a quote button if you want to address someone. just hit quote on the one you want to post and it will send a message to their box letting them know.

And yeah, I agree. They did a physics engine, thats great. But that doesnt make you great now.

 

[Kinguendo]

Wait, Iron Sights are the thing they call pandering?!

Not maybe the aim assist? Not drop shotting or quick scoping? Not those really EASY tactics that people use in place of skill? Come on.

 

[Pandaman1911]

Oh goodie goodie goodie. Keep doing what you're doing, ValvE, I trust you. This is the first game I've gotten legitimately excited for since Mass Effect 2. Don't let me down, god damn it. I can't take another ME2.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Wait, Iron Sights are the thing they call pandering?!

Not maybe the aim assist? Not drop shotting or quick scoping? Not those really EASY tactics that people use in place of skill? Come on.

There has never been any aim assist in a CS game.

Never heard of this guy before, was he brought on for G:O? It'd make sense, this kind of comment is pretty atypical for Valve. But anyway, I've never had any time for Counter strike, never liked it one bit. Dunno why, not against the idea of it, I like games without iron sights, I love playing the sniper in tf2... But counter strike really rubbed me the wrong way. Might have been the community, to be fair.

The way I enjoy it is by loading it up with a friend, and whenever we die spewing out quotes from the 40k universe. You have to take everything in that game as a joke, and it's good.

 

[Kinguendo]

Wait, Iron Sights are the thing they call pandering?!

Not maybe the aim assist? Not drop shotting or quick scoping? Not those really EASY tactics that people use in place of skill? Come on.

There has never been any aim assist in a CS game.

No, but they arent commenting on things THEY use. They are talking about the pandering of other FPS games, and mechanics in those games they wont use.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Wait, Iron Sights are the thing they call pandering?!

Not maybe the aim assist? Not drop shotting or quick scoping? Not those really EASY tactics that people use in place of skill? Come on.

There has never been any aim assist in a CS game.

No, but they arent commenting on things THEY use. They are talking about the pandering of other FPS games, and mechanics in those games they wont use.

Valve uses mechanics to pander to casual gamers?

Ok.

 

[Mr. Omega]

1: Glad to see they aren't just playing follow the leader in terms of gameplay.

2: Team Fortress 2 handled difficulty just fine. If they handle it like that, there shouldn't be a problem. Here's hoping Valve doesn't decide to put an equivalent to crates in CS.

3: Ok, you're handling difficulty ok, now how about how the community perceives skill? Or the community in general? They expect everyone to be equal. Are you not as good as them? Expect to be called a fag by everyone who did better than you. Are you better than them? Expect to be called a fag by everyone you did better than. Use a weapon that you like but is considered under-powered? Expect to be called a noob for "not knowing the way the game works". Using a gun that is deemed "over-powered"? Expect to be called a noob because you are using a "***** weapon".

This IS Valve we're talking about. Expect Crates, Hats, and a crazy long development time to go with the great games.

OT: Bring back the med-kits and ability to charge through a line of people to fire your chain gun that shoots bricks at point-blank range.

I wouldn't mind the hats just for how out of place they'd be in CS, that'd probably be good for a laugh, and delays WILL happen (this is Valve we're talking about), but if there are an equivalent to crates, there better be rage.

Fuck crates.
Fuck whoever came up with the idea of crates.
Fuck whoever is in charge of TF2 updates for not getting rid of crates.
And fuck Valve for, after hearing about the idea of crates, still putting them in TF2.
(Fuck Valve... I never thought those words would be put on my keyboard...)

Also, yes, bring back the medkits.

 

[KaiusCormere]

What do they mean by ironsights? I haven't heard this term ever.

 

[Versuvius]

What do they mean by ironsights? I haven't heard this term ever.

Aiming down the barrel with a little marker to indicate where your bullet might go. Like say a pin or a metal ring with a pin in it (Thank you awful fucking cowboy repeater aiming in New Vegas)

 

[vivalahelvig]

I read that and hear "Valve knows their game won't sell or stand out - decides to make bullshit comment about modern shooters so nostalgic idiots will defend it aqgainst all criticism and buy it en masse"

Tell me I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

Call me a 'nostalgic idiot', but I want a bit of mobility while shooting. Movement is restricted with your sights up which means my ability to dodge, run, circle strafe and jump while shooting is limited as well. And dear lord, every FPS needs to <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.284431-Poll-Does-this-trend-in-new-FPS-games-annoy-you#11200235>stick a gun up my nose just so that people can get their iron-sights up fast.

Not every FPS needs iron-sights.

In case you hasn't noticed, the only game on the market, in existence, that actually stops you shooting unless you've zoomed, is Team Fortress 2, with the Sniper. Shooting blindly from the hip is in virtually every FPS on the market, just its inferior to actually, you know, aiming.

I fail to see how allowing a person to run, dodge and jump without a penalty to aiming is somehow "non casual". Taking away penalties sounds like the definition of making the experience more casual.

No, iron sights have basically dumbed down twitched-based FPS gameplay. Whereas shooting in the past involved simultaneous shooting and dodging/circle strafing/bunny hopping, these days iron sights mean whenever two players meet they just stand in front of each other and take about 4 seconds to get their sights up and kill each other. Kids today can barely keep up with me on UT, and CoD honestly feels lethargic. Slowing things down makes it easier, and thus the 'casual' mark.

And it's hilarious how people say iron sights add 'tactical depth'. There is no choice when you have an encounter with another player but to get your sights up. Until and unless you're at close range with your shotgun, sacrificing aim for speed makes no sense since the other guy can move his sight faster than you can move, with added accuracy.

Ahh, now I get it. This is whining because you can't hope to compete on COD because you have no patience and just keep running out so people can easily kill you, and so you blame the game, insisting its "casual" and that's why you suck at it. Because you are absolutely dreadful at aiming (it takes you 4 seconds to actually aim up a sight that should only take you .35 seconds - meaning it takes you close to 12 times the time it should) you think that must mean theres a problem with the playstyle. Instead of actually learning or even attempting to get a loadout that actually works for a speedy playstyle, you just decide to blame the game because of your failure.

I read that and hear "Valve knows their game won't sell or stand out - decides to make bullshit comment about modern shooters so nostalgic idiots will defend it aqgainst all criticism and buy it en masse"

Tell me I'm wrong.

You clearly are, as CS is one of the FPS genre's and even gaming in general hallmark series. No matter what you say, no matter how much CoD, BF or anyone else bitches, it's part its history and will sell in truckloads regardless.

Unreal, 1.6, DoD, TFC, ect. These things stood the test of time as people play and refer to them.

Edit: Ah, might as well add Quake 3.

"Stood the test of time" here meaning "haven't by any stretch of the imagination, but nostalgic idiots stil, play them as if they were relevant". Stood the test of time requires that a new gamer actually call it a good game by the standards of today, which anyone can tell you they clearly haven't. Its an old series that is relevant to a small group on Steam that you insist represent a huge silent group.

And CS is nowhere approaching as relevant or as influential as COD.

You mean being the most played game on steam for years and years (untill tf2 went free 2 play)? Small group indeed. Get your facts straight before you start assuming.

 

[XT inc]

No Iron sights is Arcady and for casuals, crosshairs lead to bunny hoppers and people running around completely idiotically because there is no battle between combat vs Mobility.

Killing floor got this right, no cross hairs, and on longer weapons with weapon sway the rear and front sights get out of synch and your aim goes off if you are walking around.

if I can chase you down with my cross hairs on your head at the same speed, you will not make it around cover before I tag you, If I have to slow down,even just a little to line it up, then that is tactics right there for you to get behind a wall.

Firing from the hip is a good way to empty a while clip for a kill, and get a lucky frag if you get startled and get lucky.

So yeah iron sights not pandering to casuals. Also I wish Half Life 2 had Iron Sights, not TF2 because it is arcady, but yes definitly HL2.

 

[NightHawk21]

I didn't read the whole thing, but I got agree with what I read. Shooters (cough*CoD*cough) are pandering to the masses and as such have destroyed any semblance of a learning curve. The games are easy to pick up and play and you won't really get much better than you were at the start.

yeah well no one is going to be satisfied if the curve is too steep or starts to high to begin with.

Learning to play a difficult game is half the fun of it. Obviously a game that is impossible to play without investing a lot of time into is no fun, but if a nice balance between accessibility and depth (through learning experience) can be reached the game really shines. Hell just as an example, I played DoTA for the first time about a year ago at a friends house over a Lan with a couple people (we played a variant though, not the actual tournament edition). It was easy enough for me to pick a champ and do some damage, but as I kept playing over the coming months I began to see stuff differently and interpret situations differently that allowed me to be a much better competitor and much harder to deal with. I brought that over and experienced the same sort of feeling in League of Legends (what I mostly play now).

 

[BaronUberstein]

No iron sights? I'm out. Then again I wasn't going to buy it anyway cause I stopped playing counter strike ages ago.

I've been having great fun with Red Orchestra 2. Manual bolting is fun, and for anyone who says "iron sights cause slower game play", that's bs. More accurate fire coming your way tends to make you learn to aim faster than the other guy or how to use even tiny ditches for cover. And most game modes push towards 'Better capture this area asap or you'll lose' situations.

But, I'm not against a different kind of game, if people like side-strafing hip-firing games, that's their right. I play my FPS's and they play theirs.

 

[Normandyfoxtrot]

I didn't read the whole thing, but I got agree with what I read. Shooters (cough*CoD*cough) are pandering to the masses and as such have destroyed any semblance of a learning curve. The games are easy to pick up and play and you won't really get much better than you were at the start.

yeah well no one is going to be satisfied if the curve is too steep or starts to high to begin with.

Learning to play a difficult game is half the fun of it. Obviously a game that is impossible to play without investing a lot of time into is no fun, but if a nice balance between accessibility and depth (through learning experience) can be reached the game really shines. Hell just as an example, I played DoTA for the first time about a year ago at a friends house over a Lan with a couple people (we played a variant though, not the actual tournament edition). It was easy enough for me to pick a champ and do some damage, but as I kept playing over the coming months I began to see stuff differently and interpret situations differently that allowed me to be a much better competitor and much harder to deal with. I brought that over and experienced the same sort of feeling in League of Legends (what I mostly play now).

I think LoL is a good example of doing it right (if only they could stop having the shittiest online community I have ever seen) but then I boot up on of the new street fighters and go Oh right you can still completely and utterly forget to consider Learning curve.