Yeah, I think that's the reason about 90% of people get started on veganism =]AntiChrist said:
I wonder if you could trace it all back to a single vegan Eve.
Veganism...why?
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I wonder if you could trace it all back to a single vegan Eve.
Oh my god, cheese. OM NOM NOM. Urgh, sorry, that was a bit of a dick move. But I love cheese. Kudos to you for managing to give up something you love for your ideology thoughLittleShe-Bear said:I did eat a lot of cheese, it's true. I'll happily admit cheese is amazing, it was a total ***** to give up.Eamar said:I'm not really sold on the metabolisms argument in all cases (seriously, this friend was BIG. No way you could blame it on metabolism, she was just plain eating too much, as she herself has admitted since losing the weight). I imagine it has more to do with activity levels and how much cheese you were eatingLittleShe-Bear said:
[small]Captcha: turkey sandwich. Well, I guess we know where captcha stands on this issue...[/small]
[small]Agreed. It may be starting to achieve sentience, but captcha has a long way to go yet. Also why are we whispering?[/small]
In one regard, it's great to have a standpoint that killing animals for food is wrong, but consider the opposite. If being a vegan was suddenly the default, then there would be chaos in rural areas. If people don't have uses for cattle, you think they would want them on their land? That land could be used for growing crops for example, and I doubt that many would give up their land as a wildlife haven without government incentive. Numbers would be severely reduced, in one sense preventing possible lives with worse conditions than they have now. As it stands, cattle are provided with shelter, healthcare, food and good living conditions. I grew up on a beef farm, so my opinion is tinted by my experience, I do applaud the efforts of people to not eat animals, just disagree with the practicality. As it stands the impact of vegetarians is just lowering the prices that animals get, supply and demand wise, which might affect the conditions that the cattle might be subjected to. It's kind of a sad situation we're in, eh?
PoPiPo almost made me become a vegetarian, for moral reasons.
Tell me, is it moral to oppose Hatsune Miku?
But then I discovered bacon wrapped hot dog.
Tell me, is it moral to oppose Hatsune Miku?
But then I discovered bacon wrapped hot dog.
10-year vegetarian here, occasional vegan when it's convenient (I travel frequently enough that frankly, I need to consider nutritional needs where I can't get tofu that isn't smothered in soy sauce).
Here's my deal: I gave up meat because I'm a compulsive eater, because of the bad habits my family raised me with. Yes, I can fix that and still eat meat. But when I went vegetarian, I lost a good 10 pounds, felt generally healthier (much healthier, might I add, than the freaks that were doing Atkins at the time), and my cholesterol went down (chronic family problems).
It didn't bother me that people didn't approve of my choice, but there were a bunch of people that immediately put up the defense that I would TRY to convert them even if I was never going to (I'm not one to preach). I don't care, I don't think a lot of people would end up being healthy vegetarians if they were suddenly forced to anyway.
Yes, there are the smug among us. Duh. There are smug ones among the other side, too. Just because they're the loudest, it doesn't mean they represent the lot of us, and I'm offended at the representation. You never hear from us because we know that we should leave you the hell alone.
Though, the characterization that a lot of guys go vegetarian to impress a chick? Yeah, I've had guys at bars tell me they've 'thought' about being a vegetarian or 'are' vegetarian. Because that's a great pick-up line that we really believe. Sure.
Just sayin'. Not all of us are lunatics. Not all of us are smug. But not all of us feel we should eat meat for whatever reason anyway.
Here's my deal: I gave up meat because I'm a compulsive eater, because of the bad habits my family raised me with. Yes, I can fix that and still eat meat. But when I went vegetarian, I lost a good 10 pounds, felt generally healthier (much healthier, might I add, than the freaks that were doing Atkins at the time), and my cholesterol went down (chronic family problems).
It didn't bother me that people didn't approve of my choice, but there were a bunch of people that immediately put up the defense that I would TRY to convert them even if I was never going to (I'm not one to preach). I don't care, I don't think a lot of people would end up being healthy vegetarians if they were suddenly forced to anyway.
Yes, there are the smug among us. Duh. There are smug ones among the other side, too. Just because they're the loudest, it doesn't mean they represent the lot of us, and I'm offended at the representation. You never hear from us because we know that we should leave you the hell alone.
Though, the characterization that a lot of guys go vegetarian to impress a chick? Yeah, I've had guys at bars tell me they've 'thought' about being a vegetarian or 'are' vegetarian. Because that's a great pick-up line that we really believe. Sure.
Just sayin'. Not all of us are lunatics. Not all of us are smug. But not all of us feel we should eat meat for whatever reason anyway.
There's a whole bunch of animal product in computers, so I don't think any hardcore vegan is ever going to be able to read any post on this site.Daystar Clarion said:
Why do people become Vegans? People like to claim they do avoid animal product because it feels good to maintain a high discipline lifestyle (most elite athletes don't let themselves go if they have to stop playing their sport, they keep training and eating right), despite what some of the less aware partial animal boycotters may claim, the decision to use animal products (much like every other decision) is mostly about 'what makes me feel better about myself' and less about 'how can I make the world a better place' [footnote]There are plenty of other ways to utilize the energy and motivation people invest in this kind of thing into useful projects that could actually do something productive.[/footnote].
The most common justification is that animals should have the same rights as humans, that we 'enslave' them. Even though I consider myself far too aware of how the world works I do agree with the basic concept. Humans are animals. Animals eat each other, a snake doesn't avoid eating eggs because the chicken is an 'equal' form of life, it eats the damn eggs because they provide sustenance. As Homo Sapiens are on top of the food chain, we eat other animals and we utilize their produce. This is naturally how we function, it is this basic acceptance that allows our civilizations to function. Countless animals are killed by the ripping out of natural vegetation to create farms and cities. Transport (trains, cars, planes) kill countless small creatures. Pets live entire lives happily 'in bondage' to their human masters.
Hello, vegan person here.
These threads are just painful to read. I have been vegan for nearly a year now, and hardly anybody in this thread has given an accurate description of what it is like to be vegan or people's reasons for doing so. Rather than respond to all of this drivel at once, let me just give you a few points:
-I became vegan because I do not like the practices and policies of the meat and dairy industries. Both use cruel and tortuous methods of containing, slaughtering and breeding their animals simply to cut costs and make more money. I don't think that's right, and I don't want my hard earned money to support an industry I don't believe in.
-PETA is fucking stupid. Assuming that all vegans are PETA followers is just ridiculous. EVERY vegan that I know personally thinks the same way, they give vegetarians and vegans a bad name. Their ads are often sexist, they protest the stupidest things and actually put down more sheltered animals than they claim to save. Fuck 'em.
-I am aware that animals are unavoidably harmed/killed in the making of most food. Is there really anything I can do about it? I live in an urban area and can't afford to grow my own food. But that's still no reason to shovel meat into my mouth, and so I choose not to. Again, my money is not going to people that I do not agree with.
-Any claim you can make about animals being a part of the food chain and therefore natural to eat means nothing to me. Biologically, humans are herbivores, that's how our bodies work. We are omnivores through societal tradition, and there's nothing really wrong with that. People can eat what they want, I don't judge.
The fact that meat eaters often seem almost threatened by people who choose not to eat the flesh of other creatures is a constant amusement to me. I'm not a hippie, I'm not trying to convert anybody, and I'm not an idiot. I just don't want anything to needlessly suffer for me to eat breakfast. Is that so wrong?
These threads are just painful to read. I have been vegan for nearly a year now, and hardly anybody in this thread has given an accurate description of what it is like to be vegan or people's reasons for doing so. Rather than respond to all of this drivel at once, let me just give you a few points:
-I became vegan because I do not like the practices and policies of the meat and dairy industries. Both use cruel and tortuous methods of containing, slaughtering and breeding their animals simply to cut costs and make more money. I don't think that's right, and I don't want my hard earned money to support an industry I don't believe in.
-PETA is fucking stupid. Assuming that all vegans are PETA followers is just ridiculous. EVERY vegan that I know personally thinks the same way, they give vegetarians and vegans a bad name. Their ads are often sexist, they protest the stupidest things and actually put down more sheltered animals than they claim to save. Fuck 'em.
-I am aware that animals are unavoidably harmed/killed in the making of most food. Is there really anything I can do about it? I live in an urban area and can't afford to grow my own food. But that's still no reason to shovel meat into my mouth, and so I choose not to. Again, my money is not going to people that I do not agree with.
-Any claim you can make about animals being a part of the food chain and therefore natural to eat means nothing to me. Biologically, humans are herbivores, that's how our bodies work. We are omnivores through societal tradition, and there's nothing really wrong with that. People can eat what they want, I don't judge.
The fact that meat eaters often seem almost threatened by people who choose not to eat the flesh of other creatures is a constant amusement to me. I'm not a hippie, I'm not trying to convert anybody, and I'm not an idiot. I just don't want anything to needlessly suffer for me to eat breakfast. Is that so wrong?
Besides all the usual, obvious reasons for disliking veganism, I also hate it because it seems to imply that eating animals/using animals is wrong - And what's worse, as if it's one of the bigger problems with mankind. We have MUCH bigger issues to deal with.
Both incorrect.ArcaneFyre said:
We are "cursed," so to speak, with the knowledge of good and evil. Like it or not, we have the ability to see what is right and what is wrong and as much as it might suck sometimes, we have the great responsibility of acting on that. Humans and animals are like adults and babies - we all have different levels of understanding regarding right and wrong, but we're responsible for what we do know definitely. A tiger doesn't know in any concrete sense the suffering of a gazelle, but like it or not, a human being knows the suffering of a cow being led to slaughter.Ledan said:
One could also make the argument that the rules of right and wrong only apply to humans, as well as the fact our self awareness is what separates us from animals and they live to serve us.peruvianskys said:
you hit the nail right on the head. im a vegetarian because i dont support factory farming. do i think im going to shut down factory farming by not eating meat? of course not. but at the same time, i dont want to support something that i find morally wrongMatthew94 said:
My ancestors worked their asses off to get to the top of the food chain. You think I'd insult them by refusing meat HA. MEAT IS FOR KINGS!!!!!
Not true. Presence of canines in our mouths and the actual ability to digest meat proves otherwise. We're omni naturally.ArcaneFyre said:
Fat storage in general is largely triggered by insulin, which is itself released in response to increased blood glucose. Carbs in general are the only thing that really effects blood glucose with things like wheat and sugar being worse than vegetables and some varieties of fruit. So I'd imaging that someone who's very sensitive to fluctuations in blood sugar and readily stores fat as a result may have trouble on a vegan diet since it's pretty much all carbs and what protein you can get from soy, beans and nuts, and fats from similar sources. There's also the fact that most carb sources aren't as good at leaving one feeling satiated as protein and fat, particularly from animal sources. Even worse, the inevitable blood sugar crashes after eating a lot of sugar or wheat can stimulate hunger making you eat even more.Eamar said:Yeah, I guess that's probably it. Also, sugar is vegan and we all know how disastrous that is in terms of calories
Actually, now that you mention it I lost weight when I stopped being vegetarian. Even when I was actively trying to avoid over-reliance on pasta, bread etc and aiming for a balanced diet I fell short. I can only imagine the sheer amount of time and effort it must take a full-blown vegan to stay balanced :S
So I'm not really surprised that even on a Vegan diet some people will gain weight, only to lose it when they start to reintroduce meat and other animal products. As long as that stuff is of fairly good quality it's going to leave someone feeling full longer, and there will be less over eating of carbs and fewer blood sugar spikes and insulin production as a result.
Not quite how it works. Veganism causes the exact same amount of animal suffering. in fact it would cause more since chickens, most breeds of turkeys and dairy cows would go extinct if we stopped keeping them around. Would also put Millions of people out of work.Rowan93 said: