Video Games can be art? PROVE IT!

[TerribleAssassin]

Shadow of the Collosus.


Anyone who's played in knows where im coming from..

 

[Copter400]

I would say, "Give me a definition of art that does not involve subjectivity."

Ditto. "Meaningful, objective definition of art, ************. Say it."

 

[Continuity]

Cryostasis - ok it has flaws but but I think it has the right stuff.

 

[Daedalus1942]

READ THIS RIGHT NOW: I THINK VIDEO GAMES CAN BE ART!


Ok, let's say your at work or school and some person runs up to you and says "Hey nerd, I heard you like stupid video games. THEY CAN'T BE ART LOSER!"

Now instead of beating this person's face to the ground, you say in a calm voice "I disagree. Video games can be art, they can have great stories, and can have great meaning."

The person scoffs, and says "Ok nerd, show me one game, ONE GAME, that can change my mind."


So, what game would you pick and why?

Ummm.. seriously? that's a question?
Okami, hands down, easily the most artistic game possible ever produced for the best console in the world.

 

[illas]

Er... play Ico.
It's sweet, moving, clever, charming... and intrinsically beautiful on almost every level.

"Artistic" doesn't just mean the visual. Films can be "Artistic" without being visually stunning. Creating meaningful emotion from pixels and midi sounds for the purpose of entertainment - I'd consider that art.

In fact, a UK newspaper wrote this about Ico (and "artistic games") a while ago, it actually seemed fairly well-informed - particularly concerning how interactivity can *build* emotion: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/3358016/Why-videogamers-are-artists-at-heart.html

 

[Alandoril]

To be honest they're all art since videogame design is an art form...of course some are better examples than others.

 

[Akalistos]

Nothing. There is no game that is so obviously art that everyone will be convinced by it. It would really have been better if you'd just asked "What is your favourite example of games as art?", because that's basically what you were asking. That way, you wouldn't have all these dickheads like me picking your question apart.

Anyway, in answer to the actual question: STALKER: Call of Pripyat. It's probably something most people wouldn't think of, mainly because it doesn't have pretty cartoon graphics and doesn't drop the occasional reference to philosophy on you. But it evokes a strong emotional reaction in me, and it does it by using every element of the experience, including gameplay. That makes it good art (which is much more important than just being art - any idiot can make art).

"The art is in the eyes of the Onlookers." That mean what is Art for me won't be for the next guys. That said, i believe game are, and are right there with Literature. Different thing for different people, i guess. I can't stand Picasso but love Salvatore Dali. Can you blame me?

Spoiler: Picasso

Spoiler: Salvatore Dali

Personally, I would count both as artists. I would say that Dali is a bad artist, but like you said that's just my personal opinion.

Yeah, Dali sure phone it in when making his artwork compared to Picasso's 7 squares that have the shape of a man peeing on a giant snail. I know i said Art is in the onlooker... but this is the exception that confirm the rule. YOU ARE WRONG!

 

[Offworlder_v1legacy]

Metal Gear Solid 2.

Symbols, Story, Characters. Well I found it artistic.

 

[rokkolpo]

I would say, "Give me a definition of art that does not involve subjectivity."

This.

most likely the person will comment on that with: ''videogames still aren't art!''
which will make me *sigh* and walk away. *whilst mumbling ''sad person*''

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Hell, if rap music ([small]haha oxymoron[/small]) is a form of art, then tell me how video games aren't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwPEdp70VSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MXGIIH93ro&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PldfoVlsz8o&feature=related
edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l8Gbo8P6dg - just to show beat also allows for fantastic emotional response... again, sadly, you'd need to know the language :\

If you understand the language (sadly 'tis unlikely) and don't illicit an emotional response to any of those 4 songs (particularly the third), I'd pretty much class you off as a psychopath (mean that in the literal sense of the word, not as an insult ).

OT: Agree most with whoever said to give a definition of art that doesn't involve subjectivity, but in the spirit of the question/thread, I'd say Syberia and Syberia 2. I'd also agree with one of the above posters on Grim Fandango (played a bit through it again recently-ish, sadly not to the end due to crashing issues ) and obviously horror games like early Silent Hill/Resident Evil.

Also, really, see Extra Credits on horror games (since fear is an emotion and therefore scary pictures/movies/games are art) they summarize it perfectly, games are the best medium for it cause you virtually walk into fear yourself and not just have it shown to you, you're part of the experience.

I don't listen to music to have a "emotional response", and still a "beat" does nothing for me. So, yeah... I'll leave it at that...

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

Hmm, as most people have already pointed out, art is subjective and it's not even worth trying to have a logical argument over whether or not games can be art.

That being said, I'd have to go with Yahtzee's John DeFoe Quadrilogy, for the emotions they can create. The graphics are far from the best (although they do have a bit of a nostalgia factor to them), but the music and environments create a definite mood of tension and fear, and when the shit finally hits the fan, it makes you want do go run and hide. (Or at the very least, makes your heart skip a few beats.) It even holds sway long after you've finished playing it. I can recall a few dark, sleepless nights where my mind wandered to those games, after which it proceeded to spiral into a fit of fear and paranoia. Thanks a lot, Yahtzee.

Some people have also mentioned Bioshock or Okami, but it is one of my great shames to have never played either of those wonderful games.
/seppuku

wait, what's the name of this epic game your talking about?

Well, it's not so much 1 game as it is 4 games (hence the word "quadrilogy"). They're some of the freeware games that Yahtzee made. Their names are, in the order they're intended to be played: 5 Days a Stranger, 7 Days a Skeptic, Trilby's Notes, and 6 Days a Sacrifice. They're really quite good. You should check them out.

Also, he made two other games I enjoyed. Trilby: The Art of Theft is an entertaining stealth based game, but it's only relation to the Quadrilogy is the main character, Trilby. Think of it as a disjointed prequel, or something like that.
The second game is 1213, which, while completely unrelated the the Quardilogy, has similar themes of mystery and tension. It is more action oriented, though.

[EDIT] I figured I should mention, 5/7/6 Days are all point-and-click adventure games, and Notes is sort of a mix of point-and-click and text based games. (There are graphics, and you can click to move freely, but you have to type in commands like "Use Pills" or "Look at Door.")

 

[Calico93]

portal

YES

 

[Iffat Nur]

Games are to be enjoy, not stared at.

In a discussion about games and their role as art, this argument is strangely shifted. You make so that, in your words, staring cannot provoke some enjoyment? An art lover must indeed receive some joy of "staring" at a painting as you do in killing zombies or nazis.

Im just saying, if your idea of art is in the sense that it is a painting of some sort, it would definitely make art just a thing to stare at. You can enjoy art, otherwise your imagination really, really sucks.

 

[Milo Windby]

http://www.newgrounds.com/collection/artgames.html
Some games are made and exhibited as art. The intent isn't necessarily to provide the player with a challenge or addictive mechanic, but rather to convey a message, elicit an emotion or create a memorable experience. ~ Newgrounds

I would show them this. And then go on to show them some of the games on the list.
Besides, who said the games had to be non-Flash games?

 

[Erana]

I'd just hand them a book of essays of the great art critics of the past century and them to figure it out themselves.

Seriously, people who don't know the first thing about art need to shut the fuck up about it.

 

[migo]

READ THIS RIGHT NOW: I THINK VIDEO GAMES CAN BE ART!


Ok, let's say your at work or school and some person runs up to you and says "Hey nerd, I heard you like stupid video games. THEY CAN'T BE ART LOSER!"

Now instead of beating this person's face to the ground, you say in a calm voice "I disagree. Video games can be art, they can have great stories, and can have great meaning."

The person scoffs, and says "Ok nerd, show me one game, ONE GAME, that can change my mind."


So, what game would you pick and why?

Echochrome. It's MC Escher, but taking it to the logical conclusion in a way that wasn't possible before video games.

 

[reyttm4]

I wish people would actually answer the question in this thread as apposed to saying what they'd do in the situation.

I'd go for Silent Hill.

 

[gjendemsjo]

There's alot of great examples:
Mass effect 1 & 2
Bioshock
Red dead Redemption
Portal
Shadow of the Colossus
Okami
Braid
Heavy Rain
Prince of persia: the sands of time
Limbo
Silent Hill 2
Those are the ones I can think of right now, though there are plenty more.

 

[Ekonk]

Dear Esther.

On the less abstract and more commercial side, Heavy Rain.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Okami

I believe nothing else needs to be said.

Hmm... I might've gone with that... but I think I'd probably say "Shadow of the Colossus" or "Silent Hill 2"... of course... given the kind of person the OP said we're dealing with... I think these kind of games will go over his/her head.