"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there.

[Caverat]

If someone pays for dinner, they are owed sex. If this is unacceptable, the other party should not let them pay for dinner and insist on paying their own bill. Their doing so sends a clear signal, without any of the dishonesty of accepting the other's resource expenditure and not paying what is due. It's not a perception of entitlement, it's frustrating when actual prostitutes are more honest then the general population.

It's not rocket science.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

snip

You took the time to wall 'o text him, could you answer my simple, one line question please?

"Can you name me 1 thing feminists have fought for to help men other than "fighting gender roles" please?"

Name one where they helped women other than "fighting gender roles." Right to vote, fighting gender roles. Safe-sex, fighting gender roles. Abortion (something I personally disagree with, but whatevs), fighting gender roles. Everything feminists do breaks down to fighting gender roles. If you want something in specific however, here's a link [http://www.alternet.org/story/47080].
In my own life I have found that the increasing levels in equality have helped as thanks to that my mother can do the wonderful job she does and bring home the money we need to afford our rather extravagant house. My father is a minister, and the home we live in and the lifestyle we have would be impossible if my mother wasn't an executive, which would be impossible without feminism.
Also, in a way, feminism does combat domestic violence on the whole by opposing the roots of domestic violence, which does help everybody, and the opposition of this is part of why today I have a father who would never beat or harm me like that who I can share so much with and have such a great relationship with, which is a case of feminism helping two men.
Yet all of the examples I just showed in the end break down to one thing, opposing gender roles.

 

[sumanoskae]

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with the OP.

I'd go so far to say that a sizable chunk of the social issues in our society stem from these sorts of gender roles.

 

[sumanoskae]

If someone pays for dinner, they are owed sex. If this is unacceptable, the other party should not let them pay for dinner and insist on paying their own bill. Their doing so sends a clear signal, without any of the dishonesty of accepting the other's resource expenditure and not paying what is due. It's not a perception of entitlement, it's frustrating when actual prostitutes are more honest then the general population.

It's not rocket science.

Before I dive into an argument, I would first like to know, was this comment meant to be in response to a previous statement, despite the lack of a quote?

 

[sumanoskae]

Accidental double post, ignore

 

[easternflame]

I'm late but, who cares:

 

[DaJoW]

It's no better than the "men are the source of the worlds problems" argument.

Men != Patriarchy. This is the problem with typical antifeminism and other people getting defensive about privilege. Always asserting that when someone says something like "patriarchy" or "male supremacist thought" or "male privilege" or in terms of race, "white privilege", they're saying that white heterosexual men are evil and need to go away.

That's a farcical strawman. I'm tired of anti-feminists using these farcical, extreme comparisons to things.

Sounds like you haven't heard much from the Feminist Initaitve party here, lead by a former leader for a parliamentary party. They are quite good at this stuff, and strawmen as well for that matter. The leader wanted to introduce a "man-tax" because men "cost society more", change 50% of the street-crossing signs (the current signs have a man on them, she wanted half to feature a woman instead), she compared Sweden with the talibans and the party wanted higher taxes which would then be paid out to women to make up for the difference in salaries. The salary gap should close of course, but that hardly seems like a good way of doing it. They also said they wanted quotas in all areas of employment: All workplaces were to be required to hire 50% women or face fines. They also wanted to later expand that so that workplaces were required to hire 50% men as well.

Or how about the "gender neutral" preschool, which rewrote their fairy tales to be about women or "it"s instead of men? They are also teaching the children their own gender-neutral word (instead of "he" or "she") which does not exist in the language at large, and saying men can be mothers and women fathers - which is incorrect. A child may have two father or two mothers, but not a father and a mother of the same gender, the words do not work that way. They do a fair bit of good stuff, but it's gone well over the top imo.

 

[Ziggy109]

Virgin shaming always makes me laugh. Millions of years of evolution, thousands of years of scientific advancement, and all certain men can do with their lives is fulfill our most basic animal urge. The bacteria we evolved from would be so proud! Me, though, I'm an artist. I'm no Michelangelo, but with my art I contribute to our culture and society. I may be a virgin and I may get teased for it from time to time, but I like to remind myself that even if I haven't bedded lots of women, I actually contribute to human culture. Honestly, all virgin shaming is is guys being condescending to other guys to make themselves feel more important because they themselves can't contribute anything to humanity other than passing on their genetic material.

 

[artanis_neravar]

also if I guy has "virgin" as a pre-requisite...yeah..fuck you

I know right?

HOW DARE PEOPLE HAVE PREFERENCES??? HOW DARE THEY?!?!? DAMN FUCKING SEXIST PIGS!

alright..I may have come across as a little more agressive than needed..suuure its their right and all

but its damn hypocritical if you ask me (mabye less if they guy himself is a virgin) to me its less about treating me as a person..and more as property..or a "prize"

liek I said..I dont think virginity is all that "special" and coming from the days of relious, I dont think anyone is "unpure" or "corrupted" if they have had sex

I don't care how many sexual partners the girl I am interested in has had, as long as she doesn't discuss them with me, I know that if I know then there is a chance it will make me feel like crap, so I don't really care, I won't ask, and I don't want to know.

Just out of interest, what would you consider to be slut shaming?

Because I got a lot of shit for being turned off by women who were... Well, lets call them promiscuous. I dunno guys, I just cant go into a relationship knowing the woman next to me has slept with more than 20 men, some of them at the same time. It just aint fucking sexy man. I dont want to pressure every woman into being a fucking nun until she meets me at which point she should drop her pants faster than a guy who had taco bell for lunch, but I think a little self control (and respect) isnt always amiss. Just to be clear, I dont refuse to sleep with anyone who is not a virgin like some men out there, but you know.

I completely agree, it doesn't help that I tend to be a tad insecure and I would be convinced she was comparing me with every other guy, but that's my issue to work out.

Then you'll stay ignorant of the truth.

Oh you're one of those people? I'm out to see ya

 

[Something Amyss]

It just aint fucking sexy man.

Who cares about sexy?

1. Men, no matter how much they seem themselves as a victim never see themselves as a minority. I have NEVER seen a man think they are in the minority, ever.

Come on, that's not true and I bet you know it.

2. The way feminists twist issues so they are the victim. The 2nd quote just rings of the "women are the true victims of war" mentality.

Yes, I don't know why women would feel like victims just because they're treated like objects to be acquired.

And some dudes have a virgin preference? I'm honestly interested to understand that. Unless it's some sort of fetish. Is it some sort of fetish?

It's a cultural thing. So much of a prize has been put on virginity, it's not surprising that men value either the associated purity or the aquisition of such a "trophy."

It's a cultural thing, not so much a fetish. And it's basically the equivalent of a car losing half its value when you drive it off the lot.

 

[lizabeth19]

Just out of interest, what would you consider to be slut shaming?

Because I got a lot of shit for being turned off by women who were... Well, lets call them promiscuous. I dunno guys, I just cant go into a relationship knowing the woman next to me has slept with more than 20 men, some of them at the same time. It just aint fucking sexy man. I dont want to pressure every woman into being a fucking nun until she meets me at which point she should drop her pants faster than a guy who had taco bell for lunch, but I think a little self control (and respect) isnt always amiss. Just to be clear, I dont refuse to sleep with anyone who is not a virgin like some men out there, but you know.

Ah, the infamous "but then is what I like okay?" question. On one hand, attraction is a funny thing. For example, I am attracted to guys who are funny, smart and understand the meaning of the word kyriarchy. Does that mean I have to date everyone who comes my way, even if they believe that women are meant to be pregnant, bare-foot and so submissive that it's difficult to differentiate her from the doormat? No. At least in my version of democracy, I have the right of free association, which means I can pick and chose who I am friends with, even if they are arse-holes.*

On the other hand, "the personal is political". Basically, if is very, very difficult, if nigh impossible, for humans to remove our beliefs, thoughts and feelings about the world from the world. Which means that even if you are the most rational person alive, one can still be influenced by the world around them. For example, you wrote "but I think a little self control (and respect) isnt always amiss" in referrence to those who have a large number of sexual partners. But feminists have argued that this is a false association; not every woman who attends an orgy is doing it because they feel even a little bit bad about themselves. However, not your fault. This is a common trait in society and makes you a normal, average person who did a normal average thing.

tl;dr: Kid, you're fine.



*Which is not to say that I cannot be shunned by everyone else. I have the right to freely associate, but not the right to be accepted by everyone else without reserve.

 

[Blobpie]

Ha, I'm still a virgin and I've never cared about having sex....now companionship on the other hand, that is another story.

 

[WolfThomas]

Actually, the dildo was invented millennia ago. The vibrator was a Victorian invention.

Allegedly Cleopatra created the first recorded vibrator by filling a gourd full of bees.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Is it necessary? The harsh truth is that this is necessary and until a culture arises where men aren't for some reason natural born criminals then the system isn't going to change. It is my belief that feminism holds the answer to cure the criminal impulses of men.

You're insane. Straight-up, off the walls, loony-bin-worthy insane.

Is it OK to say that all blacks are born criminals? Is it OK to say that all Mexicans are born drug dealers? Is it OK to say that all white people are born bigoted rednecks?

No, it's not, because those are dirty fucking stereotypes perpetrated by hateful idiots. And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Get your head straight.

It's not my fault. I'm just saying that women lack the instinctive reactionary nature that men developed over millions of years that makes them more prone to committing crimes without considering the long term consequences. As I also said, women take much less time to rehabilitate and I'm a supporter of the prison system being a system of rehabilitation over a system of punishment. Once somebody is capable of functioning as a decent human being and does not show signs of going back into crime there is not much reason to keep them locked up. Of course, it's a divided issue what the nature of the prison system is. In polls usually we get about 50% voting for punishhment and 50% voting for rehabilitation. This means the government compromises and as such, there are very many cases of people who have to stay in jail much longer than they need to rehabilitate and there are cases of people who have a relatively short stay that is not enough for their rehabilitation.

This isn't something I decided. I don't see why I'm the one that should be called crazy.

Because you think its totally acceptable to give all men all the time longer scentences because "men reoffend" but it ISNT ok to give blacks longer scentences because "blacks reoffend". How is this not crazy. Youve justified blatent and undeniable sexism.

Define Sexism: Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination on the basis of sex.

Men re offend more and deserve harsher scentences and men make bad parents are sexist statements pure and simple because youre judging everyone with a dick the same way and assuming they are all the same. And if youre NOT saying they are all the same why do some men who honestly would never reoffend deserve longer scentences and some men who are good parents not deserve custody? Because they are being branded by what OTHER men do?

I dont know why you ignored my post but its pretty undeniable you are wrong and sexist to hold this viewpoint. Its a little sad watching you try and dogde it.