We should forgive Bioware.

Vampire cat

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For someone that was never a longtime Bioware fan (like me), the latest games from them it what was supposed to introduce me to the company. Getting into something new and being disapointed is a bit like taking a bite out of a sandwich you don't know whats in. Everyone has said it tastes soooo good cause the guy that makes them has made such great sandwiches in the past. But your first bite isn't very nice, and the next one is even worse! Sure, maybe the third bite WILL be good, but after spending $100 on two bites you didn't much care for, taking the 3rd one doesn't tempt much, regardless of price and hype =p.

I really suck at saying clever things so I'm sure someone will completely misunderstand and we'll have a big row. *puts up fists* well, bring it on!

I guess I can compare it to how I feel about Ubisoft. They made some good smoked salmon, and I liked it a lot. But then they started smearing poo on it. No matter how hard you try to enjoy the salmon after that, you just can't get around that smell and taste...

...

I'm hungry!
 

Eamar

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I forgave Bioware after playing the ME3 Extended Cut. I'll probably get some flak for saying it, but they managed to save it in my eyes, and I was happy with the ending (or rather, happy that it had a proper ending at last).
[small]And no, I still don't like the Starchild or organics vs synthetics bullcrap, but it was tolerable with a decent epilogue and a few ret-cons[/small]

I'll admit, I had (perhaps somewhat childishly) been refusing to buy any of their older games that I'd wanted to try out until I was satisfied with the ME3 ending. I know it's illogical, but I just didn't think it was ok for them to release an unfinished game and get away with it. On finishing the Extended Cut, I immediately bought both KOTOR and Jade Empire.

Now, this doesn't mean I won't be wary of any future Bioware releases. ME3 taught me a lesson about pre-ordering, for example, and there are several shitty business practices evident in ME3 that I'm not sure I'd want to put up with again (the shoe-horned in, compulsory multiplayer to enable DRM; taking out an important chunk of the story and selling it as day one DLC; fucking Origin). But I certainly won't be refusing to buy future games if they sound like something I'd enjoy, nor will I ***** about any future games without playing them myself just because they carry the Bioware label.

ME3 got me so mad because Bioware has done such an amazing job with the series. I never would have believed that I could have got so emotional involved in a game series before Mass Effect. Dragon Age: Origins (plus Awakening) is another of my favourite games of all time, and the one I've put most time into by far. I'm not about to deny myself another experience like that unless I really have to.
 

Aircross

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I'll forgive Bioware when they abandon EA and start giving themselves enough time to put out a 100% polished product instead of a 95% polished product.

I don't care if it takes 7 years as long as the end result is fantastic.
 

AbstractStream

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Feb 18, 2011
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Draech said:
Bioware isn't interested in my forgiveness. They may like that they have a loyal fanbase, but that itself is just one point in getting into your wallet. They dont love me. No developer does. They dont even know me.

They are in this because we pay games. Not because the they want us to like them.

And if a product they make is worth the pricetag upon it, then ill get out my wallet and pay for it. Regardless if it says Bioware, EA or whatever.
As cynical as this may sound to others, there's truth to this and I agree with you (although I think it's more of the publisher not caring rather than the developer). Funny that it didn't hit me until the aftermath of ME3.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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oplinger said:
Because they were not Bioware quality games, they were EA quality games. They were mediocre, passable, painfully okay. And they had many issues, not just ME3's ending, or DA2's gays.
Well, it didn't take long for someone to bring up EA, huh? I suppose that's only fair, I tried to avoid going into EA-hate mode but I suppose that's probably a big part of the reason so many people are angry with Bioware in the first place.

I never said those games didn't have their own issues, I said that despite the issues they were still pretty decent games. This is getting into the realm of personal opinion, but objectively speaking Dragon Age 2 looked nice, controlled fairly well, had good voice acting and decent writing, a working combat/skill system, and actually tried to push its way out of the rigid "Bioware" guillotine of "YOU are the ONLY ONE who can SAVE THE WORLD!" It had problems - Recycled assets, a bland story, some people didn't like the "simplified" armor system for companions or how the combat and skills were flip-flopped to be more like an MMO-style game than a "true RPG", and on release the DirectX 11 support was pretty buggy and terrible. I'm sure all of the weapon&armor bundle DLCs didn't help endear it to the public eye either.

Mass Effect 3 had a simplified dialogue system, it had less reason to interact with squad-mates between missions, it had multi-player, it shrunk down the number of side-missions a person could take, and it had a lot of plot-holes and Dei Ex Machina, but it also had much smoother and faster combat, a more in-depth skill system than had been in Mass Effect 2, and while this is my own opinion I thought the writing was the strongest of the entire trilogy. Who didn't love that moment with Garrus on the top of the Citadel? Who didn't love Grunt's crowning moment of awesome? Who didn't feel heartbroken during Mordin's scenes? Who wasn't crestfallen when they discovered they had to choose between the Geth and the Quarians (though that brings up the issues with the final incarnation of the Paragon/Renegade system)?

Bioware did a terrible mistake in story telling. They do have a long history of releasing good games, quality games, games that are memorable, told well, presented in a way we all enjoy and are interested in seeing. Those 3 are...meh. Decent is not what Bioware is known for. And Bioware doesn't seem to really care. They're doing EA type things.
I believe I already covered Mass Effect 3 above, but I'll agree that the actual storytelling aspect of Dragon Age 2 fell heavily flat. Bioware didn't seem to get the change of pacing required when you switch to a story that is centrally focused on the life of one person, instead of one person's journey. As far as Bioware not caring anymore, well I'd like to believe that as a business, they never really cared to begin with but I wasn't exactly following video game news until about 2009 so I don't actually know. But I've heard that a lot of the people who used to work there before the EA acquisition have since left, and to me that sounds like it would explain a lot.

See, the problem is this, emotions aren't a resource to be spent up. You can't waste them. Please don't say something so silly.
I'm not so sure about that. Haven't you ever felt really drained and tired after a prolonged time of being really angry, sad, or happy?

Also, Cars was still a great movie, it was pixar quality, pixar style. It was what they were known for. People probably did swear off batman movies, but the difference with the movies is new directors, it would be like swearing off a game franchise, then the IP gets sold to a new developer, but you don't care. Makes no sense. Different people.
A lot of people complained about Cars, actually. Because a lot of people didn't believe it was "Pixar quality" when it was released. And when it got a sequel they were even more perplexed. And if that's the case, why have so many people claimed that Halo should just die off? Different developer, so people shouldn't care, right?

I can't think of a real example at the moment, so for purely hypothetical's sake take Final Fantasy. A lot of people got burned by how XII and XIII were. If Square Enix were to outsource the next Final Fantasy game to a completely different developer, do you think people would buy it just because it's not a Final Fantasy game made by Square Enix?

They are going a direction we don't like. That's why we hate it. They're going a very bad direction. They've taken good stories with flat characters, and made boring stories with flat characters with more romance options. We don't like it. We don't want to see Bioware go away. We do want them to stay, but as what they were, not what they are becoming.
First of all, the quality of a story as you're presenting it here is entirely subjective. You may think Mass Effect 3 was boring. I didn't.

And my entire point is that Bioware shouldn't be forced into staying as what they were just to appease their fans. They should be able to change, they should be able to do different things in their games. Maybe they're changing in awkward ways that don't really help themselves, and maybe it was forced on them by EA, but the point is that all of the "fan outrage" over every little change isn't doing any good.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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Its hard not to smell EA's influence in many of Bioware's recent blunders. The cynic in me says this a trend that will only get worse.
 

LetalisK

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May 5, 2010
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I haven't played DA2 yet and I quite enjoyed ME3 and TOR, so there is really nothing for me to forgive Bioware for.
 

dnazeri

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Jul 2, 2012
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Bioware is no longer Bioware. Its EA's Bioware. I blame EA for most of their missteps, but that doesn't mean I'll "forgive" Bioware and start buying their games in the vain hope that they will break the trend of EA destroying whats good about all the studios it buys up. Honestly I haven't bought an EA game in two years, and I don't intend to start now.
 

Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Forgive? What the bloody balls, they aren't part of your social circle, they are a company making products.

Only thing people should do is understand, understand what they were and what they have become, but most of all understand that under the name is not the young garage band team of eager devs, now it is a conglomerate game producer eager to meet income projections, which leaves the game making in second place.
Now you need to decide if this is what you support or not.
 

jawakiller

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Jan 14, 2011
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How's this? They get their shit together and then I buy their games. Simple enough. And if they never make a game with Bethesda. Ever.
 

Darkmantle

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You only made this thread because it was in the "threads you don't expect to see on the escapist" thread didn't you?

Anyway, whether or not I forgive them is going to depend on whether or not their future game releases suck. And I take issue with people saying 99% of ME3 was good. No it wasn't, not from a story perspective. Most of it was bad writing.

They don't deserve "forgiveness" until they prove they will not continue their downward spiral, plain and simple.
 

EpicMrAnderson

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Jan 3, 2012
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It's down to personal taste really though isn't it? I mean, even if somebody doesn't like the ending of a game, somebody else might. Even though I don't like Bioware games that much (I tried Dragon Age Origins and didn't like it and from what I've heard Mass Effect is similar game play wise) I know and respect that they do write pretty awesome games.
 

Atmos Duality

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Mar 3, 2010
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If you "forgive", don't lower your standards in doing so.
Don't blindly buy their games on launch.

It's the only way those game companies will ever feel compelled to improve.
Sales statistics speak leagues louder than any controversy.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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Atmos Duality said:
If you "forgive", don't lower your standards in doing so.
Don't blindly buy their games on launch.

It's the only way those game companies will ever feel compelled to improve.
Sales statistics speak leagues louder than any controversy.
I'm not saying that people should blindly love them again. Just that blindly hating them is equally as ridiculous. You should always be wary of what you buy, no matter who is selling it, that's being a savvy customer.

Darkmantle said:
You only made this thread because it was in the "threads you don't expect to see on the escapist" thread didn't you?


I would never do something like that. Any post that says otherwise is a lie.
 

AlotFirst

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EpicMrAnderson said:
It's down to personal taste really though isn't it? I mean, even if somebody doesn't like the ending of a game, somebody else might. Even though I don't like Bioware games that much (I tried Dragon Age Origins and didn't like it and from what I've heard Mass Effect is similar game play wise) I know and respect that they do write pretty awesome games.
Mass Effect doesn't have similar gameplay. Perhaps similar structure, but gameplay... nooo! You are comparing a Slow-paced Turn-based RPG (Dragon Age) to a Fast-paced Action (Third Person Shooter) RPG. But if you were to purchase Mass Effect 1, then please don't expect the masterwork RPG that people are making it out to be, because it isn't.