We should forgive Bioware.
- Thread starter shrekfan246
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Bioware is no longer Bioware. Its EA's Bioware. I blame EA for most of their missteps, but that doesn't mean I'll "forgive" Bioware and start buying their games in the vain hope that they will break the trend of EA destroying whats good about all the studios it buys up. Honestly I haven't bought an EA game in two years, and I don't intend to start now.
Forgive? What the bloody balls, they aren't part of your social circle, they are a company making products.
Only thing people should do is understand, understand what they were and what they have become, but most of all understand that under the name is not the young garage band team of eager devs, now it is a conglomerate game producer eager to meet income projections, which leaves the game making in second place.
Now you need to decide if this is what you support or not.
Only thing people should do is understand, understand what they were and what they have become, but most of all understand that under the name is not the young garage band team of eager devs, now it is a conglomerate game producer eager to meet income projections, which leaves the game making in second place.
Now you need to decide if this is what you support or not.
How's this? They get their shit together and then I buy their games. Simple enough. And if they never make a game with Bethesda. Ever.
You only made this thread because it was in the "threads you don't expect to see on the escapist" thread didn't you?
Anyway, whether or not I forgive them is going to depend on whether or not their future game releases suck. And I take issue with people saying 99% of ME3 was good. No it wasn't, not from a story perspective. Most of it was bad writing.
They don't deserve "forgiveness" until they prove they will not continue their downward spiral, plain and simple.
Anyway, whether or not I forgive them is going to depend on whether or not their future game releases suck. And I take issue with people saying 99% of ME3 was good. No it wasn't, not from a story perspective. Most of it was bad writing.
They don't deserve "forgiveness" until they prove they will not continue their downward spiral, plain and simple.
It's down to personal taste really though isn't it? I mean, even if somebody doesn't like the ending of a game, somebody else might. Even though I don't like Bioware games that much (I tried Dragon Age Origins and didn't like it and from what I've heard Mass Effect is similar game play wise) I know and respect that they do write pretty awesome games.
If you "forgive", don't lower your standards in doing so.
Don't blindly buy their games on launch.
It's the only way those game companies will ever feel compelled to improve.
Sales statistics speak leagues louder than any controversy.
Don't blindly buy their games on launch.
It's the only way those game companies will ever feel compelled to improve.
Sales statistics speak leagues louder than any controversy.
I'm not saying that people should blindly love them again. Just that blindly hating them is equally as ridiculous. You should always be wary of what you buy, no matter who is selling it, that's being a savvy customer.Atmos Duality said:
Darkmantle said:
I would never do something like that. Any post that says otherwise is a lie.
Mass Effect doesn't have similar gameplay. Perhaps similar structure, but gameplay... nooo! You are comparing a Slow-paced Turn-based RPG (Dragon Age) to a Fast-paced Action (Third Person Shooter) RPG. But if you were to purchase Mass Effect 1, then please don't expect the masterwork RPG that people are making it out to be, because it isn't.EpicMrAnderson said:
I'm only cautioning here because when I see often see topics or articles/videos etc asking people to "forgive", they are really asking for everyone to just go back to how things were before; which is just recreating the same conditions that lead to the first problem.shrekfan246 said:
Blindly hating anything is ridiculous, yes.
If you must hate on something, at least have a good objective reason for it.
I don't want people to go back to worshiping the ground Bioware walks on. Hell, I'm not even a huge Bioware fan myself - I've enjoyed KotOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age, but that's purely it. I enjoyed them. They were sources of entertainment for me for untold hours, and when I finished them that was it. They were over. I moved on to other games. Hell, I didn't even know KotOR was a "Bioware Game" back when I first got it. I just liked Star Wars.Atmos Duality said:
I don't think people are wrong for being mad about all of the things that have happened to Bioware over the last few years. But I think the hatred for EA is reaching critical mass and has helped amplify the rage directed at Bioware, and it's just tiring. You should never put blind faith in a developer, no matter how good they are. By the same token, you shouldn't hate a developer because they're doing things differently, or because they're owned by one of the worst publishers currently in the industry, or because they've made "mediocre" "passable" games after a long history of great games.
I... probably don't look at these types of things with enough emotion, though. I'm fairly neutral about most things in relation to developers and publishers. I don't like EA's business practices, but I like the games they release. I've had fun with a few Valve games, but I try to not use Steam if I can help it and I don't care about Half-Life 3. I don't harbor any strong feelings toward Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft. Maybe I'm just weird...
Emphasis added by me. As someone who's been on both sides of the gamer/dev border, and has moderated on said dev's forums for awhile, pretty much this.Draech said:
Only a very small percentage of the studio looks at the forums, usually a couple writers, QA perhaps, the community reps if the studio is large enough to have one, otherwise they'd rely on the owning publisher's PR and marketing team. And even then, they usually only frequent their own, not others like, say, here's.
I mean, can you name the devs on the game and their roles (Without looking up the credits)? Their past game credits? Probably not, you mostly only see the front facing ones they parade around at shows and videos.
And of course it goes both ways, if you came up to them at a convention and introduce yourself, would they go "Oh it's you! How are you doing?" I rarely remember who I've talked to on forums from last year, let alone last month. It's all due to the frequency of the interaction, they MIGHT interact with you for like one post a day, maybe a week? If you're lucky - most of the time some rep will do something like collect feedback and forward a list to the devs, so they don't even know who posted it. Unless you stand out in some way besides just posting on a forum.
And yet people think their $60 purchase == investment in the company. I'm not trying to be dismissive of the impact the community can be, or say "know your place, you're just a number" but realize how ignorant the devs are of you.
I'm not a fan of their other games but I did love Mass Effect as a franchise. Both of the previous games are heavily flawed but they offered me something that not a lot of developers offer, a huge, sprawling universe that has interesting lore and divulges in interesting themes. Now after Mass Effect 3, I just don't give a shit about anything they'll ever put out.
I don't hate them or anything, it's just my opinion of them have lowered extremely after Mass Effect 3.
I don't hate them or anything, it's just my opinion of them have lowered extremely after Mass Effect 3.
We all have to remember that Bioware are a company with multiple teams, the team that did ME3 was not the exact same that did DA2. Other Bioware teams could be working on good stuff as we type.
I thought ME3 was great until the end which I hated. Now the extended cut is out I only think it is poor. I mostly blame Casey Hudson for the ending, but the whole ending thing is still a mine field so lets not go into it.
I liked DA2. The biggest complaint was "you don't travel round trying to save the world", surely that is a good thing because it breaks the mold from every other rpg ever. The copy and pasted environments did suck though.
I never gave a shit about the star wars rpg they made and dont even know what was apparently wrong with it.
I cannot really forgive them for destroying Mass Effect. Yes it is destroyed. The multiple endings guarantee there will be no more post ME3 games only, fucking annoying prequels.
As for dragon age 3 hey lets give it a chance! its ending can't be as bad as Mass Effects..... right?
I thought ME3 was great until the end which I hated. Now the extended cut is out I only think it is poor. I mostly blame Casey Hudson for the ending, but the whole ending thing is still a mine field so lets not go into it.
I liked DA2. The biggest complaint was "you don't travel round trying to save the world", surely that is a good thing because it breaks the mold from every other rpg ever. The copy and pasted environments did suck though.
I never gave a shit about the star wars rpg they made and dont even know what was apparently wrong with it.
I cannot really forgive them for destroying Mass Effect. Yes it is destroyed. The multiple endings guarantee there will be no more post ME3 games only, fucking annoying prequels.
As for dragon age 3 hey lets give it a chance! its ending can't be as bad as Mass Effects..... right?
I personally don't really have a problem with Bioware.
The only real point where I thought Bioware was somewhat taking missteps was with Dragon Age: Origins.
I didn't by any means think Dragon Age was a bad game or even badly written, I just felt, when I played it, that Bioware seemed to sometimes be trying too hard with their 'Dark Fantasy'. I mean, this is the game that deconstructs some parts of being a mage!
And I'm not bothered by ME3's ending, partly because before Extended Cut I just pretended it didn't exist and used fanon discontinuity to make so in my mind Shepard simply sacrificed himself to destroy the Reapers (and ONLY the Reapers) and everyone else in the galaxy lives happily ever after.
But mostly because I saw on Youtube what the EC version of the Control ending was like, and I can only describe it in 2 words; 'beyond badass'.
The only real point where I thought Bioware was somewhat taking missteps was with Dragon Age: Origins.
I didn't by any means think Dragon Age was a bad game or even badly written, I just felt, when I played it, that Bioware seemed to sometimes be trying too hard with their 'Dark Fantasy'. I mean, this is the game that deconstructs some parts of being a mage!
And I'm not bothered by ME3's ending, partly because before Extended Cut I just pretended it didn't exist and used fanon discontinuity to make so in my mind Shepard simply sacrificed himself to destroy the Reapers (and ONLY the Reapers) and everyone else in the galaxy lives happily ever after.
But mostly because I saw on Youtube what the EC version of the Control ending was like, and I can only describe it in 2 words; 'beyond badass'.
