We should forgive Bioware.
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Sure, if they make a good game, and don't pull any s***, why not buy it. Maybe they've learnt something.
Not an assumption. There was plenty of evidence to support that in ME1, ME2, and even in ME3, its simply that the endings for ME3 take a giant shit all over that an treat it as if none of it mattered.Wombok said:
ME1: Human and alien fleets unite to take down Sovereign - and win. And before that, you hold an incredibly diverse crew of humans aliens together with very few incidents.
ME2: You end up with an even more diverse crew and hold it together... even though some members of the crew want to kill each other, you get them all to work together to take down the Collectors.
ME3: Curing the genophage so that the turians and krogan work together (even most of the salaraians join in anyway). Clearer example... ending a genocidal war between the quarians and the geth so that they can work together to help you fight the Reapers... and if they both survive, it looks like their future together will be a very good one.
However, the endings for ME3 contradict all of that by implying that all of your efforts towards uniting the galaxy were useless. Because in the end, you can either choose one of three colored explosions, or everyone dies. Even after the EC, it really is nothing more than 3 differently colored explosions.
As for ME1...
there has always been an effort in the ME universe between species to unite in spite of differences to work together...
remember the translators implanted in every piece of armor, and most clothing? Ever read the codex entry for it? It requires its own, very specialized computing software and hardware, and it takes years of work to fully translate a new alien language so that everyone else can understand it as well. This implies that there is an entire industry in the ME universe devoted towards making the language barrier irrelevant, and thus, aiding in uniting the galaxy.
So, no, not an assumption on my part. I'm just incredibly frustrated that, apparently, Case Hudson didn't think "uniting in spite of differences" wasn't an important enough theme (despite the body of evidence I've just given you) to play a major role in how ME3 ends. Which is a very cheap shot.
That people honestly take themselves seriously in this context is both sad and funny.
"Okay, guys... I know this company made some games some of us didn't like, but maybe it's time we forgive them. I know, I know! It's hard. But it's for the best. Let's forgive the video game company for making a product I don't like and move on with our lives. It will be tough, but we can do it. Together."
Just some games, duders. Get over it.
"Okay, guys... I know this company made some games some of us didn't like, but maybe it's time we forgive them. I know, I know! It's hard. But it's for the best. Let's forgive the video game company for making a product I don't like and move on with our lives. It will be tough, but we can do it. Together."
Just some games, duders. Get over it.
Okay, there's seven pages so normally I wouldn't throw my two cents in, but I LOVE your avatar. Troy's so fun. :3Andy Shandy said:
OT: I, like every person with a soul, loved Mass Effect 3 right up and to the end of it. But in a way that I never thought possible, that 5 minutes wrecked any enjoyment I got from the story (and while I love the combat, it's not THAT great). Because of that utterly royal screwup that violated all sorts of promises and implications, I can no longer trust a Bioware product until it is completed. If they start doing something right, I will gladly reward them.
But for now I cannot trust Bioware in good faith, as they have shown that they haven't been working in good faith.
RIP Bioware, curse you EA
Sorry, no, we should not forgive Bioware. It's about time "gamers" (how I hate that term) stop rewarding companies that have been publishing travesties.
I was never much of a fan, my gf is a HUGE fan, tho. I have found most of their games to be boring or just not my style. That being said, I was an early beta tester for TOR, and absolutely loved that game. Unfortunately, the execution of it when it went gold (too many servers, not enough players, etc) just made it unplayable as an MMO, so I went back to my old games.
I'm not sure I ever "trusted" Bioware, as I wasn't a fan of their more popular series, and I certainly didn't buy a game because their name was on it. I won't discount them, tho, and will continue to give their games a chance (most likely after my gf has bought the game and I can try her copy).
I'm not sure I ever "trusted" Bioware, as I wasn't a fan of their more popular series, and I certainly didn't buy a game because their name was on it. I won't discount them, tho, and will continue to give their games a chance (most likely after my gf has bought the game and I can try her copy).
I didnt get to play ME3 yet but i liked dragon age 2 and found it engaging and fun. Not perfect but fun. I never was mad at bioware and still when they announce a title i look at it and if it interests me i buy it. Iv never just jumped to buying a game just because a certain someone made it
I wouldn't say that I hate Bioware, or that I won't buy their next title, but I'm more.. cautious now. ME3 and DA2 were huge disappointments for me. Two giant disappoints in a row is enough to shake anyone's faith in a company. And they both failed because Bioware tried to reach a broader audience. They cut down on the RPG elements in ME3 (despite saying they'd add MORE) in favor of a heavily cover-based shooting gameplay style. and DA2... god damn, DA2--where do I even begin? I'm not even going to touch on why DA2 is awful, as it would take me several paragraphs to list everything.
I like shooters, don't get me wrong. I love Call of Duty--play it every day, but that's not what I want Mass Effect to be. And with each release of Mass Effect, they moved further and further away from the RPG that I loved. So.. I'll keep my eye on DA3, but I'm probably gonna pick it up when it's in the bargain bin, if at all, regardless of what people say about it.
I like shooters, don't get me wrong. I love Call of Duty--play it every day, but that's not what I want Mass Effect to be. And with each release of Mass Effect, they moved further and further away from the RPG that I loved. So.. I'll keep my eye on DA3, but I'm probably gonna pick it up when it's in the bargain bin, if at all, regardless of what people say about it.
Bioware isn't the problem, they're as talented as ever, it's all EA's influence and the oppressive political culture that has infiltrated the studio that is the real problem. A handful of core devs should jump ship and form their own company, start making the games they want to again. Watch the quality gradually come back.
In summary:
BIOWARE = GOOD
EA = BAD mostly because they aren't gamers but businessmen at heart, and are overly focused on the bottom line
In summary:
BIOWARE = GOOD
EA = BAD mostly because they aren't gamers but businessmen at heart, and are overly focused on the bottom line
Allow me to suggest that the problem isn't with the execution of the games, but the lack of artistic risk. The issue with Bioware isn't that they're incompetent: nobody disagrees with the notion that they're able to produce a well-written, enjoyable game. The problem is that they've ceased to be willing or able to take any creative risks in doing so, which is a fairly disappointing capitulation given their previous work.
If they make a good game, then sure I'll forgive them.
That's looking increasingly unlikely however. The trend has been a steady decline in quality. I had some hopes that they'd finally gotten over it while playing through ME3, but then I met the starchild and those hopes were crushed.
That's looking increasingly unlikely however. The trend has been a steady decline in quality. I had some hopes that they'd finally gotten over it while playing through ME3, but then I met the starchild and those hopes were crushed.
Star Wars the old republic... REAAAALLLLY well done as far as a story telling MMO... but.. shouldnt have beeen a mmo but singleplayer game.. maybe KOTOR3(cmon bioware just give it to me already!!)... would have done that very well instead 
"People dont forget, nothing is forgiven"
-John Marston.
I am going to watch DA3, but I fully expect it to just blow up in their face.
Hey maybe we can get an ending where we can side with the Darkspawn, since they are really trying to SAVE us from ourselves!
You know its telling just looking at DAO and DA2
It took me HALF AN HOUR to figure out what to do in DAO, and DA2 took me 3 seconds.
-John Marston.
I am going to watch DA3, but I fully expect it to just blow up in their face.
Hey maybe we can get an ending where we can side with the Darkspawn, since they are really trying to SAVE us from ourselves!
You know its telling just looking at DAO and DA2
It took me HALF AN HOUR to figure out what to do in DAO, and DA2 took me 3 seconds.
I can't speak for Dragon Age 2, but I have played TOR and ME3 and can speak for them. The Old Republic was not a bad game, it had a good story and had the best leveling in any MMO I have ever played. Howeveer, it would have been better to make a less traditional MMO or at least a bit better end game content. Mass Effect 3 did have a bad ending, but it also had the extended cut which not only made the ending good (albeit not perfect) and made it a worthy ending to quite possibly the greatest trilogy in gaming, and it was also a huge part in gaming history, being as it was the first time a company to basically say they fucked up and shows that if there is a problem in a game that a developer can have the willingness to fix it (outside of glitches).
All in all, I don't know about Bioware's future, and I am still not happy about them being with EA seeing as EA is a bad company, but Bioware making the extended cut shows that they still do want to create good games. If they where simply giving in they would have gone with the indoctrination theory (which is still brilliant and would have been pretty cool if it was the original intention of the developers), but instead stuck with their artistic vision and gave us something good. I think Bioware is a good company and I think that they still have a lot to offer us, but I know that lots of people are irrational and will hold the ME3 original ending over them forever.
All in all, I don't know about Bioware's future, and I am still not happy about them being with EA seeing as EA is a bad company, but Bioware making the extended cut shows that they still do want to create good games. If they where simply giving in they would have gone with the indoctrination theory (which is still brilliant and would have been pretty cool if it was the original intention of the developers), but instead stuck with their artistic vision and gave us something good. I think Bioware is a good company and I think that they still have a lot to offer us, but I know that lots of people are irrational and will hold the ME3 original ending over them forever.
Forgive them for what? They've done nothing wrong. It's their IP,they are to handle it however they choose. They don't need to apologize if the audience finds fault over something petty. Dragon Age 2 has the same issues that Mass Effect 2 had: Oversimplifacation. And,although it's a bad thing,it did make gameplay faster and feel more fun,so the negative impact of the oversimplifacation is easily counterbalanced by the new fun that was added. And the Mass Effect 3 endings...First of all,let me put on my flame retardant suit.
Now,the ME3 endings were meant to end Commander Shepard's story. Either by going MIA,KIA or simply retiring,this was the end for him. How BioWare decided to tell that ending was their choice,and given the circumstances of the game,made sense and didn't warrant the borderline psychopathic response that it got from the playerbase.
So,I'll say it again. Forgive them for what? I have nothing to forgive them for. The only way to improve is to change,and there will always be people there to protest change. Just relax,and when Dragon Age 3 comes out,play it and love it,and if they decide to release a new game in the Mass Effect universe,I know I'd play it. Maybe it'll be about the Morning War or the Relay 314 Incident. Or,hell,maybe it'll be an MMO. Who knows.
Besides,the whole Retake Mass Effect disaster will only serve,in the long run,to make the gaming community look worse. They don't need forgiveness,because,so far,they didn't do anything wrong. Well...Maybe except for forcing me to watch Gorion die. But I've forgiven them for that long ago.
Now,the ME3 endings were meant to end Commander Shepard's story. Either by going MIA,KIA or simply retiring,this was the end for him. How BioWare decided to tell that ending was their choice,and given the circumstances of the game,made sense and didn't warrant the borderline psychopathic response that it got from the playerbase.
So,I'll say it again. Forgive them for what? I have nothing to forgive them for. The only way to improve is to change,and there will always be people there to protest change. Just relax,and when Dragon Age 3 comes out,play it and love it,and if they decide to release a new game in the Mass Effect universe,I know I'd play it. Maybe it'll be about the Morning War or the Relay 314 Incident. Or,hell,maybe it'll be an MMO. Who knows.
Besides,the whole Retake Mass Effect disaster will only serve,in the long run,to make the gaming community look worse. They don't need forgiveness,because,so far,they didn't do anything wrong. Well...Maybe except for forcing me to watch Gorion die. But I've forgiven them for that long ago.
So I haven't read all the posts, but I'll chip in my two cents anyway. I really enjoyed DA:O, but never played two because everything from the demo to the trailers gave me a very... "this is not the same game, it is rushed" kinda feel, so i stayed away and was very happy i did, and to this day have no intention to play DA2. I loved mass effect, but even in ME2, what a bunch of people consider to be the best of the three, i felt was a much poorer job than ME1. i still enjoyed ME2, but i felt a decline in quality. ME3, again i did enjoy, i didn't even think the original ending was that bad till i really sat back and thought about it. But the overall game as a whole the story was exactly what i had wished it wasn't from the moment the first ME3 trailer came out at the VGAs. "oh god don't turn this into a 'save earth' game" and it was. As for TOR.. never played it so i don't really have anything to say other than its a subscription based MMO, which is something i will never do simply cause i feel it's silly to pay monthly for a game ive already paid for.
But this is about do we forgive them? for me, its not really about "forgiving them" for the fact that they've made games i haven't enjoyed, or haven't lived up to my expectations. I used to really like bioware, they use to be one of my favorite developers. but as it stands now, nothing that they are working on currently, has peaked my interest in the slightest. so, obviously i'm not gonna buy whatever they put out. not out of spite or this "you let me down so now i wont buy from you" attitude, but simply because i'm not interested in any of their games. its as simple as that
But this is about do we forgive them? for me, its not really about "forgiving them" for the fact that they've made games i haven't enjoyed, or haven't lived up to my expectations. I used to really like bioware, they use to be one of my favorite developers. but as it stands now, nothing that they are working on currently, has peaked my interest in the slightest. so, obviously i'm not gonna buy whatever they put out. not out of spite or this "you let me down so now i wont buy from you" attitude, but simply because i'm not interested in any of their games. its as simple as that
they've recently made a bunch of shit and lack luster games so the way i see it until they make another game i really like or has me interested i wont buy it