Well, the Warcraft movie is a bit rubbish.

[IamLEAM1983]

I'm not surprised it bombed.

See, Warcraft's lore is dense, and "dense" is a euphemism. It's thick, opaque, not terribly subtle, and not nearly as riveting as a lot of WoW or early Warcraft aficionados would believe. The universe's only stroke of genius - and even that is debatable - is making the Orcs out to be Noble Savages (TM) instead of the previously-standard Dumb Green Bruisers ? la Games Workshop (also TM). And yes, I know the Burning Legion reduced the Orcs to the above-mentioned status, I know Gul'dan's plan started out of desperation and later spiralled out of control into pure lust for power - but it doesn't make the notion of Dumb Orcs any less trite.

That density is easier to swallow when it's stretched over hundreds of hours of play time, and diluted by dozens upon dozens of instances of NPCs going "I need X number of Y objects, so kill everything in Zone Z for me." Add to that the fact that it's hard to care about the lore implications of what you're doing when you're coordinating a twelve-man Raid; and you're left with the impression that said lore doesn't really matter.

Add to that a painstaking amount of care displayed by Duncan Jones that would've honoured other projects, and you're left with a movie that's inscrutable if you haven't kept up with the lore. A cousin of mine went and saw it as Generic Fantasy Movie #23456, and came out of the theatre with a ton of unanswered questions. Ben Foster's Medivh might've been picture-perfect, the spell effects might've been spot-on and Magni Bronzebeard's recreation might've been awesome - they're all just name-drops, the movie being stuck working alongside a checklist to make sure it's as painstakingly faithful as possible.

That makes a case for the more common form of Hollywood game adaptations, in which only basic concepts are retained, and in which lore tends to be streamlined. As it stands, I doubt "Warcraft: The Beginning" will ever get its sequel and final third chapter. I've heard that foreign box offices have been kinder towards it, but I don't know how much this means in terms of generated profits.

 

[Disco Biscuit]

I'm not surprised it bombed.

See, Warcraft's lore is dense, and "dense" is a euphemism. It's thick, opaque, not terribly subtle, and not nearly as riveting as a lot of WoW or early Warcraft aficionados would believe. The universe's only stroke of genius - and even that is debatable - is making the Orcs out to be Noble Savages (TM) instead of the previously-standard Dumb Green Bruisers ? la Games Workshop (also TM). And yes, I know the Burning Legion reduced the Orcs to the above-mentioned status, I know Gul'dan's plan started out of desperation and later spiralled out of control into pure lust for power - but it doesn't make the notion of Dumb Orcs any less trite.

That density is easier to swallow when it's stretched over hundreds of hours of play time, and diluted by dozens upon dozens of instances of NPCs going "I need X number of Y objects, so kill everything in Zone Z for me." Add to that the fact that it's hard to care about the lore implications of what you're doing when you're coordinating a twelve-man Raid; and you're left with the impression that said lore doesn't really matter.

Add to that a painstaking amount of care displayed by Duncan Jones that would've honoured other projects, and you're left with a movie that's inscrutable if you haven't kept up with the lore. A cousin of mine went and saw it as Generic Fantasy Movie #23456, and came out of the theatre with a ton of unanswered questions. Ben Foster's Medivh might've been picture-perfect, the spell effects might've been spot-on and Magni Bronzebeard's recreation might've been awesome - they're all just name-drops, the movie being stuck working alongside a checklist to make sure it's as painstakingly faithful as possible.

That makes a case for the more common form of Hollywood game adaptations, in which only basic concepts are retained, and in which lore tends to be streamlined. As it stands, I doubt "Warcraft: The Beginning" will ever get its sequel and final third chapter. I've heard that foreign box offices have been kinder towards it, but I don't know how much this means in terms of generated profits.

You don't even have to make it so barebones, just tell less of the story from fewer angles. This isn't just about dense lore, it's about the goal of this movie being nothing more than brand establishment and the aforementioned name-dropping. They had to show off everything that would make people like Slo and Samted wet themselves with joy, make the maximum number of branded products, toys, etc.

Then there's this: http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-helps-ease-hollywoods-wounds-1465765019

Which is no accident. Wanda[footnote]The company which owns the most theaters in China by the way[/footnote] acquired Legendary Pictures ahead of this, so there was never any doubt about making a healthy profit regardless of domestic reception.

Beyond that, I'm willing to guess that the die-hard fans in this thread are also from the foreign cinema market?

 

[IamLEAM1983]

You don't even have to make it so barebones, just tell less of the story from fewer angles. This isn't just about dense lore, it's about the goal of this movie being nothing more than brand establishment and the aforementioned name-dropping. They had to show off everything that would make people like Slo and Samted wet themselves with joy, make the maximum number of branded products, toys, etc.

Then there's this: http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-helps-ease-hollywoods-wounds-1465765019

Which is no accident. Wanda[footnote]The company which owns the most theaters in China by the way[/footnote] acquired Legendary Pictures ahead of this, so there was never any doubt about making a healthy profit regardless of domestic reception.

Beyond that, I'm willing to guess that the die-hard fans in this thread are also from the foreign cinema market?

I don't know about your last statement, but everything else seems pretty likely to me. I do remember that the French market received an unusual deal: Warcraft ticket preorders came with a one-month subscription to the MMO.

It just seems odd. Unless you're the type to go starry-eyed at the sight of Toby Kebell's Durotan and to act like Blizzard is your personal Disney, there's not a lot of incentive to even *watch* this. Plus, how many average subscribers are there, currently? Five million or thereabouts? Wasn't the subscriber base on a landslide, just a year back?

All I see is a lot of pomp and chest-puffing, while there's a lot more organic offerings to choose from in the Fantasy Movie market. Even Peter Jackson's Hobbit trilogy fares better than this, and the three original LotR movies are still hard to beat to this day: world-building is done through camera work, set design and soundtrack composition; and the characters never go out of their way to explain things. The first movie's entrance shot into the Shire is all banter and whimsical music, and it manages the task of translating Tolkien's Anthropologist diatribe in "Concerning Hobbits" into audio-visual format. You *understand* who and what the Hobbits are, and nobody in the involved shots says a single word about it.

 

[wizzy555]

You don't even have to make it so barebones, just tell less of the story from fewer angles. This isn't just about dense lore, it's about the goal of this movie being nothing more than brand establishment and the aforementioned name-dropping. They had to show off everything that would make people like Slo and Samted wet themselves with joy, make the maximum number of branded products, toys, etc.

Then there's this: http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-helps-ease-hollywoods-wounds-1465765019

Which is no accident. Wanda[footnote]The company which owns the most theaters in China by the way[/footnote] acquired Legendary Pictures ahead of this, so there was never any doubt about making a healthy profit regardless of domestic reception.

Beyond that, I'm willing to guess that the die-hard fans in this thread are also from the foreign cinema market?

I don't know about your last statement, but everything else seems pretty likely to me. I do remember that the French market received an unusual deal: Warcraft ticket preorders came with a one-month subscription to the MMO.

It just seems odd. Unless you're the type to go starry-eyed at the sight of Toby Kebell's Durotan and to act like Blizzard is your personal Disney, there's not a lot of incentive to even *watch* this. Plus, how many average subscribers are there, currently? Five million or thereabouts? Wasn't the subscriber base on a landslide, just a year back?

All I see is a lot of pomp and chest-puffing, while there's a lot more organic offerings to choose from in the Fantasy Movie market. Even Peter Jackson's Hobbit trilogy fares better than this, and the three original LotR movies are still hard to beat to this day: world-building is done through camera work, set design and soundtrack composition; and the characters never go out of their way to explain things. The first movie's entrance shot into the Shire is all banter and whimsical music, and it manages the task of translating Tolkien's Anthropologist diatribe in "Concerning Hobbits" into audio-visual format. You *understand* who and what the Hobbits are, and nobody in the involved shots says a single word about it.

I think you'll find that Ian Holme monologues the "Concerning Hobbits" descriptions over the visual scenes. So you are told who the Hobbits are very explicitly.

Of course they used the device of him writing a book, but still.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I think you'll find that Ian Holme monologues the "Concerning Hobbits" descriptions over the visual scenes. So you are told who the Hobbits are very explicitly.

Of course they used the device of him writing a book, but still.

Right, I must've misremembered that.

Still, it could've been much worse. The narration's fairly succinct, we're shown the exact specifics of Hobbits and their culture with a few lines - and that's it. I'd say Peter Jackson's been pretty graceful with exposition, on average.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

From the trailers and footage that I've seen, I can tell that they were taking the story too seriously. Warcraft isn't Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. It's cheesy, over-the-top and light-hearted with a somewhat serious story in the background, down to the individual quotes of the units ("Me no sound like Yoda! Do I?"). If you treat it as anything but, it's a pretty generic fantasy setting.

 

[major_chaos]

So I finally went and saw it and I don't really get rock bottom score from critics and venom from fourmites. Sure its not LoTR by any stretch and I wouldn't call it a great movie, but it was competently executed and both my huge WoW nerd sister and my mother who has zero knowledge of the franchise walked away saying they enjoyed it. Honestly I think it's biggest weakness was being about the least interesting section of the lore. A WC3/Frozen Throne movie would be much more interesting just by virtue of having cooler events to work with (pun not intended).

I would sure as hell rather sit through Warcraft's 6.5/10 somewhat unique high-fantasy a second time before I would see any of the high profile dreck the theater was advertising. When my other choices are The Conjuring 2 (yawn. Remember when horror movies at least had memorable antagonists?) Alice: through the looking glass (go away Tim Burton, you have lost any talent you may have had) and Now You See Me 2(or I could watch The Italian Job while someone sticks fishhooks in my dick because that would hurt less) I have absolute confidence I chose correctly.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

So I finally went and saw it and I don't really get rock bottom score from critics and venom from fourmites. Sure its not LoTR by any stretch and I wouldn't call it a great movie, but it was competently executed and both my huge WoW nerd sister and my mother who has zero knowledge of the franchise walked away saying they enjoyed it. Honestly I think it's biggest weakness was being about the least interesting section of the lore. A WC3/Frozen Throne movie would be much more interesting just by virtue of having cooler events to work with (pun not intended).

I would sure as hell rather sit through Warcraft's 6.5/10 somewhat unique high-fantasy a second time before I would see any of the high profile dreck the theater was advertising. When my other choices are The Conjuring 2 (yawn. Remember when horror movies at least had memorable antagonists?) Alice: through the looking glass (go away Tim Burton, you have lost any talent you may have had) and Now You See Me 2(or I could watch The Italian Job while someone sticks fishhooks in my dick because that would hurt less) I have absolute confidence I chose correctly.

My beef is on the acting especially some of the human characters should have at least Emoted better.

Watching it sometimes I tried to listen to what they are saying but the Human actors are so soft spoken and stoned face with the exception of Travis Fimmel's Lothar in some scenes.

I was like "Come on Emote!!! Ham it up"

Heck even the most boring cinematic in Warcraft 3 had better acting and Emoted with clarity.


Compared to this:


Yes I know the above is complete animation but it is something that can be recrated in Live Action.

 

[ZeD [taken 0]]

I could have sworn Gamora daughter of Thanos was half Orc and half Blood Elf. 'cause Orcs have never encountered humans before and she's like 30. And she can't be part draenei because she looks nothing like an aqua velva Klingon goat.
And at one point Orgrim and Durotar were chatting about how much they missed hunting Blood Elves through the woods.

They say "blood elks," not blood elves.

Blood dogs.

Anyhow, I think the movie was pretty good. It had some severe pacing issues, but that's probably because he had to cut about 40 minutes from the movie fairly recently before the cinematic release.
I expect the extended version to do a Kingdom of Heaven and become fantastic.

To those who wonder about Garona's half-human shenanigans, Medivh talks about how he traveled to another world, met a woman, and they had some forbidden love.
Boom, Garona is Medivh's daughter.

From the trailers and footage that I've seen, I can tell that they were taking the story too seriously. Warcraft isn't Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. It's cheesy, over-the-top and light-hearted with a somewhat serious story in the background, down to the individual quotes of the units ("Me no sound like Yoda! Do I?"). If you treat it as anything but, it's a pretty generic fantasy setting.

Warcraft has always been very serious (moreso prior to WoW).
Whatever happens with individual units during gameplay, like when you click on the repeatedly, isn't canon.
Warcraft is what you see in the cinematics, and they're straight up serious.

 

[Hawki]

To those who wonder about Garona's half-human shenanigans, Medivh talks about how he traveled to another world, met a woman, and they had some forbidden love.
Boom, Garona is Medivh's daughter.

Yeah, that's my guess as well. Which is a boon, because that pretty much rules out Med'an, unless Blizzard wants things to get REALLY awkward. 0_0

Oh, and kudos for another fellow Kingdom of Heaven fan who enjoys the extended cut.

 

[happyninja42]

I thought per the lore Garona was half human half draeni? At least that's what a friend of mine who has played WoW more recently than myself said.

 

[Hawki]

I thought per the lore Garona was half human half draeni? At least that's what a friend of mine who has played WoW more recently than myself said.

Original lore, yes. However, the movie is in its own continuity.

I've seen some claim that the movie Garona is definitively half-orc, half-human, but I can't say for sure. It's confirmed that in the movie, her mother was an orc. It is, however, implied that Medivh is her father, that he somehow visited Draenor before the opening of the Dark Portal.

Edit: Huh. Checked Wowpedia, apparently the novelization confirms that Medivh is her father in the setting.

 

[Cette]

I thought it wasn't terrible but damn did it suffer from the hour that's supposed to be cut out of it.

Liked the acting and the way everything looked right out of the games practicality or silliness be damned. And I was actually digging the cgi orcs.

But all of the pacing issues I've seen complained about and the way it cuts from place to place never explaining who anyone is or what the importance of the locations are must have jarring as hell for someone who doesn't already know it all.

Especially the end with Medivh which just sort of happens with no explanation. Like I get it but that's only because I read the Warcraft 2 manual 15 years ago. Coming in fresh that would have made no sense.

So like a 6/10 and a decent start if they want to do more but shit has to get tightened up for any sequels. I really want to see the extended cut to check out if the movie breathes a little better that way.

Also they wasted Clancy Brown on a character that barely ever talks. That's absolutely criminal.

 

[happyninja42]

I thought it wasn't terrible but damn did it suffer from the hour that's supposed to be cut out of it.

Liked the acting and the way everything looked right out of the games practicality or silliness be damned. And I was actually digging the cgi orcs.

But all of the pacing issues I've seen complained about and the way it cuts from place to place never explaining who anyone is or what the importance of the locations are must have jarring as hell for someone who doesn't already know it all.

It's definitely assuming you already know the lore. And on an episode of the Co-optional podcast, Jesse Cox, who apparently hosted a premier of it with Blizzard, said they told him to specifically say "it's a movie made by fans, for fans". So, assuming that's true, (and I have no reason to doubt it), yeah that pretty much is what one would expect. I mean, I played WoW up to right before the release of Wrath of the Lich King, and even I didn't know most of that junk. Granted, most of it is the lore around WC 1, which I know nothing about. But I have a passing knowledge of the world, and I was frequently going "who is that? Why do I care? What's going on?"

Especially the end with Medivh which just sort of happens with no explanation. Like I get it but that's only because I read the Warcraft 2 manual 15 years ago. Coming in fresh that would have made no sense.

Correct, it made no sense to us. They cut out SOOOO much stuff, particularly about Medivh and his background, so that it's all just "....wait what?!?"

So like a 6/10 and a decent start if they want to do more but shit has to get tightened up for any sequels. I really want to see the extended cut to check out if the movie breathes a little better that way.

Also they wasted Clancy Brown on a character that barely ever talks. That's absolutely criminal.

I agree, it wasn't a terrible movie, but it wasn't a great one either. It was decently entertaining, and I had a few genuine laughs. Most of the cast were good, though a lot of the human characters were very 2 dimensional. I mostly judge a movie on how much emotional investment they pull out of me over the course of the movie. And there was really only one scene, near the end that actually gave me chills, and got me a little choked up, and it involved Durotan. The rest, I distinctly remember "I have no investment in this plot. I'm just watching it to see where it goes."

So yeah, about a 5/10, 5.5/10 for me. If it came on tv one night, I wouldn't turn away from it (unless something better was on), but I don't plan on buying the dvd of it anytime soon.

 

[happyninja42]

I thought per the lore Garona was half human half draeni? At least that's what a friend of mine who has played WoW more recently than myself said.

Original lore, yes. However, the movie is in its own continuity.

Yeah I know it's it's own continuity, I just wanted to clarify what her lineage was in comparison to the game, because I had zero idea who she was.

I've seen some claim that the movie Garona is definitively half-orc, half-human, but I can't say for sure. It's confirmed that in the movie, her mother was an orc. It is, however, implied that Medivh is her father, that he somehow visited Draenor before the opening of the Dark Portal.

If she was part Draenae, wouldn't she have horns you think? And I can't remember, but didn't she say flat out at one point in the movie that she was half human? I honestly don't recall. But yes, they heavily imply in the film that it's medivh, which I was a little puzzled by, because some of what he says, makes it sound like he opened the portal for love of her. It's just...eh, very muddled.

Edit: Huh. Checked Wowpedia, apparently the novelization confirms that Medivh is her father in the setting.

Well that clears up one thing at least.

 

[Terminal Marque]

@Hawki: Totally off topic and appropo of nothing.

 

[wizzy555]

If she was part Draenae, wouldn't she have horns you think? And I can't remember, but didn't she say flat out at one point in the movie that she was half human? I honestly don't recall. But yes, they heavily imply in the film that it's medivh, which I was a little puzzled by, because some of what he says, makes it sound like he opened the portal for love of her. It's just...eh, very muddled.

You have to understand the Dranei lore has been retconned several times over the course of the years. Initially they were envisioned as something like Humans who lived on Dreanor and simply existed as an enemy the orcs had previously defeated.

Then they got redesigned to the "broken" Dranei of outland, and were just hideous mutants who presumably looked like humans before they were mutated. Then for the burning crusade Metzin redesigned them again as the uncorrupted eredar we see today.

It may be the case they were invented purely to give Garona her origin, but don't quote me on that, my knowledge only goes back to 2001.

 

[tzimize]

To enjoy the Warcraft movie you need 2 things.

1: You have to be able to take ridiculous high fantasy seriously. It takes itself seriously, if you cant, you wont enjoy it.

2: Dont expect oscar material. Yeah, a lot of the dialogue is not impressive. It simply isnt. Or, as op said, the orc stuff is pretty good, the human stuff is pretty bad. Which unfortunately is pretty standard Blizzard fare :\

Another thing REALLY helps it along:

3: Be a Warcraft fan.

I've been following the series since WC1 and to me it was a joy just to see a lof of the stuff on the big screen. Some fancy magic was also cool. Again, if you cant take that seriously, it'll probably look dumb to you. I loved everything about the orcs, and the scene with Durotan and his wife in the tent was simply brilliant.

As much as I want to I'm not sure I can recommend the movie to a random movie goer...its simply too special and too specific for that. And Warcraft fan owes themselves to give it a chance though. My 2?.

 

[happyninja42]

If she was part Draenae, wouldn't she have horns you think? And I can't remember, but didn't she say flat out at one point in the movie that she was half human? I honestly don't recall. But yes, they heavily imply in the film that it's medivh, which I was a little puzzled by, because some of what he says, makes it sound like he opened the portal for love of her. It's just...eh, very muddled.

You have to understand the Dranei lore has been retconned several times over the course of the years. Initially they were envisioned as something like Humans who lived on Dreanor and simply existed as an enemy the orcs had previously defeated.

Then they got redesigned to the "broken" Dranei of outland, and were just hideous mutants who presumably looked like humans before they were mutated. Then for the burning crusade Metzin redesigned them again as the uncorrupted eredar we see today.

It may be the case they were invented purely to give Garona her origin, but don't quote me on that, my knowledge only goes back to 2001.

I just mean from the movie itself. The Dranei are in the movie, and they very clearly look like the ones from the game. And now that I think of it, Garona even knew their language, and Guldan didn't. So it would imply even in the movie that she has connections to them. Which is why I was puzzled. If she was half Dranei, she would likely have horns, even with the movie lore. But given how they are trying to ship her with the perpetually drunk human warrior guy (not the character, but the actor's eyes looked like he was drunk the whole time), I'm confident she's half human just for the shipping purposes.