What does the world have against America?

[Tsaba]

snip

Look at history, Americans have always been looked down at. America is a nation of immigrants,as the statue of liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor. Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." It took the "worst" the world offered and look at what those immigrants have accomplished.

 

[Starke]

What does your name have to do with your political affiliation? Absolutely nothing.

Then you've never been to Ireland. I know of few other countries where your name denotes your religious and political beliefs.

When in point of fact it doesn't. It doesn't. You can shove your fingers in your ears and pretend you live in some alternate universe where human beings are hive minded organisms, where once you've spoken to one member of a hive, you know what they all are, but people, people everywhere on the goddamn planet, are individuals. You know, individuals, as in unique, just like everyone else. You want to say Ireland is a country where you have to conform under risk of violence, that's fine, but don't pretend that there isn't a single dissenting voice in the isles.

Look. Stop trying to speak for members of the United Kingdom when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I could say the same for the Middle East. You clearly have no grasp of the region or its political realities. All you seem to know is, "ARG America bad, stir up middle east." When in point of fucking fact, the history, the stirring, and the instability all stretch back to long before you were born.

The most defiance I saw from a Scot was when my Glaswegian cousin visited, and had a fierce argument about the legality of Scottish money.
It's legal tender.

And I have met and spoken with Scots who were fucking furious that they didn't have their sovereignty. You know that thing I mentioned a while back? Individuality? Yeah, that thing? It turns out not everyone tells you everything, especially since you're an outsider. Where as I was talking with close friends. Big difference, apparently. And, as with Ireland, screaming for independence to every random passers by might still be a pretty good way to get your ass investigated by MI5.

Also. I don't know why I have to keep hammering this at you. I have not denied that the British Empire did bad things. You know who else did bad things? The Romans. The Byzantines. The Norse. The Turks. The Egyptians. EVERYBODY.
So, what, I take it that America is the nicest country around, because it missed the imperialist stage of history? No. Now we live in a 'peaceful, civilised age', and America STILL wages a backroom war on peoples it sees as inferior. That's the big middle finger you've given to the world. You push 'democracy' and 'freedom' on the world, without realising the hypocrisy of the statement. Not that it matters. It's bullshit anyway.

It is all bullshit. The state of the world isn't that improved. Look at the back room dealings of any country, Russia, the UK, France, even in just the last twenty to thirty years. Now what has happened is people have taken to hiding their dirty laundry, while the US is, as a structure of government, fucking horrible at it. I mean we had political appointees outing intelligence officers over petty politics. You want to bet what would happen if a Russian bureaucrat exposed a member of the RSB that way? Or Mussad? No one's perfect, but you came at this conversation with the perspective that the world hates us and it blows back on you, when in fact, it tends to be, what you've done blows back on you.

EDIT 2: A also really object to Thyunda's assertion that the British were somehow loved by the middle east until Bush, and that the animosity there is our fault. When in point of fact, they were as much targets before.

American bipolarity indeed. I said we weren't hated as much as America. Clearly, that translated to you as 'President of England's fan club'.

When you were whining about how no one was bombing London until after we set them off? Close enough.

For the bulk of the Cold War American policy makers looked at the world in as a Bipolar System (in this case, Bipolar meaning two poles, not mentally unhinged). Either you were the good guys or the bad guys. It was this Bipolar model which informed involvement in Vietnam, intervention in Iran, most American involvement in Latin America. The fact of the matter is, this is how many policy makers continued to view the world after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Oh, and genocide is traditional. Can't really get around that - for thousands of years genocide was synonymous with 'victory'. You won't meet many Hittites, that's for sure.
The Native Americans are the first people to lose their country and not their heritage. Do you know how many true Englishmen I've met in my entire life?
Just one. A direct descendant of the Cornovii tribe. I think Cornovii was right...I can't remember.

I'm honestly surprised you've met that many.

But everybody else is a mix of the forces that conquered us. The English have been wiped out and replaced so many times, claiming that the native Americans were hard done to is just plain ludicrous. We COULD have just killed them all. That's what everybody else did. It's what the Portuguese did to the original South American cultures.

And, indeed the Dutch and the English tried when these were still theirs. Well, when New Amsterdam was theirs, and the English tried. As a matter of resources, the Imperial colonies didn't have the capacity to exterminate the natives. Too much land, not enough force. So, in a way the Native Americans got off better than most in that regard. Does it make it okay? No, but it's better than what the your natives faced.

Put simply - the reservations existed. Therefore not genocide. Therefore it's a stupid argument. When your Bible advocates complete genocide, you are in no place to criticise the actions of the colonists.

The reservations came much later, long after English involvement was terminated. Also, it's not my bible. You see, unlike some members of this conversation, I don't live in a nation with a State Religion. And, as I previously pointed out, I am an individual, meaning making assumptions like "you're a Christian" are prone to being off base.

 

[Starke]

snip

Look at history, Americans have always been looked down at. America is a nation of immigrants,as the statue of liberty says, "Give me your tired, your poor. Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." It took the "worst" the world offered and look at what those immigrants have accomplished.

I swear, I somehow read that as "yearning to breathe fire." It was a... unique take on that quote and pretty damn amusing.

 

[Tsaba]

yearning to breathe fire.

That is too funny, you sir, must be tired.

 

[Weentastic]

Now, I'm Canadian, and I know that a lot of people dislike, even hate, the US. There are several things about the US that I really dislike and hate. But I've always wondered why people seem to view every single American in a bad way. Sure, the US has a lot of obnoxious, arrogant, self-centered, greedy, immoral people, especially in the government. But honestly, what country doesn't? Can any country claim to be perfect bastions of freedom, democracy, happiness, cute puppies and cute smiles on a baby's face? None. Each country has it's flaws. Is it maybe because the US is often set as a country to aspire to? Is it because it's one of the three most powerful countries on Earth? Is it because the Republicans and Democrats seem determined to tear the country in two apart because of their feud? What are your thoughts?

All of these are symptoms of a bigger problem. If you are a Christian you know what that problem is. However, in order to appeal to a more politically correct, but none the less true line of thinking, is to say prejudice. Americans are viewed poorly because of the bad decisions that some Americans have made. America is not special in this regard, it is only special in the amount of attention it receives. You see what you want too. When I want to be mad at Catholics, I think about all the bad crap they have done, but in reality, Catholics didn't do those things, people did. You can take that little template and apply it to just about any group, persuasion, attitude, perspective, or label and find out the truth. Humans are crappy, and any one group is crappy when viewed in certain lights.

I hope that this reply is understood well. I am not trying to point out any one group to deflect away from Americans or myself, but just chose Catholics as a personal example.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

Two factors.

1. We have a lot of very vocal minorities that make us look bad. (We hate these people just as much as you do, by the way)

2. People not thinking about it long enough to figure out that these people are OBVIOUSLY just vocal minorities.

 

[eruwenfuin]

Actually we discussed this in my AMlit class as a sort of starter exercise, and personally I think it's not nessecarily the fact that there are greedy people, or egocentrical, religious zealots, or whatever it is, because every country has those.

It's the arrogance to say for instance: "We will fight a war on terror" or we will invade iraq and organize/bomb that shit to peace.

And then the failure of following through.

The USA is a country built upon the grandest promise of them all: "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That's one hell of a promise, a promise that was broken nearly immediately by the institution of slavery's continued existance. And the US has never been able to break that pattern.

Simultaneously being ideological enough to want to be better, do better for not just themselves, but the world, but also being backward and broken enough to never be able to achieve it.

And we're not blind, we see that this is happening, and yeah we put you in this position of some kind of Superpower, but as we see you making these promises and failing, and continuing to make those promises, our view of your country slowly but surely turned to that of an arrogant, boisterous nation that can't even sort out its own shit.

Having said that, I don't hate the US. I don't ascribe to hating great swatches of humanity for their gender, race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, hair colour or whatever you wish. Individuals, however, like for instance that Michelle bachman woman. Well I reserve the right to greatly dislike everything they stand for.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Mostly its the crap the American government has done in the name of its people. As such everyone is tarred by that brush. The English got that crap during colonial times im sure. We love Americans, actually we love people in general, just not the arseholes.

 

[RatRace123]

I'm American and I don't hate us.

I despise our government and the unscrupulous business execs that live in our country.
But as for the average American citizen, I can say they're actually quite tolerable, save for the assholes, but those are not exclusive to America.

Most of us are not the bible humping, gun felating cowboys the stereotypes make us out to be.

We've got problems (a lot, lately) but what country doesn't. OK, no other country's leaders are stupid enough to try to destroy the internet right now, and our economy is in the shitter, and the two political parties would rather just spend their days bitching at each other instead of trying to solve the country's problems.

But my fellow average American citizens are good, or at least decent.

However, if you hate America because of our government and our global policies, well then that's a perfect reason to hate us.

 

[Brotha Desmond]

I don't like the thought of being grouped together with the people you are discussing.

 

[rt052192]

say what you want about America, but remember that you need us as much as we need the rest of the world

 

[Sean951]

I love how I never saw anyone bring up the good sides of the American Military. Right now, there are 100 troops in Uganda trying to capture the man the UN describes as the worst since Hitler. Last spring, the US sent 2 carriers to Japan to help with evacuations, along with the thousands of troops already stationed there. Same thing with the tsunami, or the helicopter rescues when Pakistan had the flooding issues a few years back. So while yes, we do spend too much on defense, we do put a fair bit of that money to good use.

I would say America is disliked because international media focuses on big stories, and big stories tend to be negative. If I were to only believe the media, I would think much of Europe makes the US immigration policy look like the golden standard. The amount of blatant racism I hear from stories about France, Belgium, and England make our petty disputes seem rather calm. Just 5-7 years ago, France had race riots over the issue, while the US had a few marches with little to no violence.

What you don't hear about is the man who went around a small town in America and gave out $20,000 for the holidays, or the person who was driving down the road and stopped to help a family with their home on fire. I'm sure other countries have similar stories, but they are typically "fluff" pieces tacked on at the end of a new broadcast, and rarely make it to world coverage. This is especially true now that America is in one war (we're down to one now, it's official!)Europe might have their own economic collapse.

 

[Avae]

And I have met and spoken with Scots who were fucking furious that they didn't have their sovereignty.

Well I live in the UK, specifically Scotland and the majority of people here aren't really interested in leaving the UK. Yeah you can speak to a couple of people who believe in all of that but you can't then say that must mean everyone thinks like that.


If your basing your argument on a generalisation then is that not hypocritical when you attack others who do that to your country? If some US citizens are despicable racists then that must mean all of them are? Thats not rational.

I think that the US has done some terrible things around the world. Do you know what the US Defense Secretary McNamara said about using atomic weapons against the civilian populations of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

He said that the US leadership would be guilty of war crimes if Japan had won but because Japan had lost then it's not a war crime. I have read apologists for mass murder here saying it had to be done to end WW2.

Quite revolting really. What if Japan had bombed San Francisco and Los Angeles with Nuclear Weapons to end the war, would it be acceptable then?

That said, I think most people don't hate Americans. Americans are the same as mostly everyone else around the world, decent honest people but a lot of people in different countries are just very cynical towards what your country does around the world now and they see through the whole "America is the greatest country in the world" nationalism.

 

[AngloDoom]

But I've always wondered why people seem to view every single American in a bad way.

I don't quite understand this. I mean, people make sweeping statements all the time which usually consist of using the noun to mean 'most people' such as "women are evil" or "men are pigs" - yet they are clearly not referring to their own parents, siblings, often friends, etc. So when people say 'I hate Americans' they - most likely - do not literally mean every American ever and that ever will be, but a sweeping statements made up either of cultural traits or just general ignorance.

I don't think I've ever met anyone - who wasn't senile - that was able to come out with a statement like "all Americans are bad, without exception, it's GENETIC!".

To answer your question though, I dislike a lot of stereotype American attitudes. I dislike the whole 'pledge of allegiance', I dislike how every single person - regardless of worth - is more important as an individual than the state and the country they live, I am very much unnerved the way religion was such a large grip over the country, and I think that a significant amount of people in America - whether minority or majority - can't think outside their own little box on some particular issues.

Again, this isn't to say that all, most, or even half of American's act like this, but these are traits that I feel are encouraged by a lot of the culture of America. I don't dislike people I've never met, but I can dislike the culture in which they were raised.

 

[Vryyk]

I mean you can try and brush that genocide under the carpet as much as you like America but you were built on taking natives and brutally murdering them then building on top of the rivers of blood.

Hooooooly shit, there are countries that have a right to give us grief about what we did to the Native Americans but Britain definitely isn't one of them.

For starters, you founded your country in the exact same way we did, coming in to someone else's country, killing the inhabitants, and claiming it for yourself. To be fair though, almost every modern country started this way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England

Secondly, consider the actions of the British Empire. You guys wrote the fucking rulebook on exploitation of native peoples. Britain was second only to Portugal in the matter of slave taking/trading. Not to mention the brutal methods they used getting ivory and precious metals from the African people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

The Irish would have a bit to say on this matter as well, I know there's a good bit of bad blood there after you invaded their country and claimed it for yourself. Plenty of unnecessary cruelties were visited on them once you guys had control as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Wexford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_for_the_Settlement_of_Ireland_1652


If America was built on rivers of blood England was nursed on oceans of the stuff. This is only what I can remember off of the top of my head.

 

[HalfBakedCheeto]

I actually don't hate Americans at all, all the really hot women come from there anyway sooo... o3o

 

[CrazyJew]

Because TV shows and movies made Americans believe living in a house of your own is the norm, not the exception. Families take out loans to buy houses they can't afford, and due to a tragic chain of events the economy is Eff-You-Kay-Tee. When America can't pay its' debts the debtors can't pay THEIR debts, effectively causing a global economic crisis.

An apartment is not something to be ashamed of, Americ**ts. It's the norm everywhere else.

 

[Daniel Ferguson]

Immunity mentality: "At least I'm not as dumb/mean/retarded/lazy etc as them" comes into play often - typically because the internet is a breeding ground of images and stories about how dumb SOME American people are. It's easier to find fault with a country that in the world spotlight -some would say jumping up and down like a spoilt child wanting attention - than to acknowledge that A) there's dumb/lazy/etc people in other countries too. I think it's also out of fear, since America seems like it has such a gigantic military budget and love of violence. That's the common view, perpetrated through narrow-minded Immunity Mentality anyway. See also Micro/macrocosm thinking, wherein people take the individual example and assume that's the case for the whole. There's also Black And White thinking, Us And Them, and Discounting The Positives.

That's what I think it is.

 

[Hamburger_Time]

I mean you can try and brush that genocide under the carpet as much as you like America but you were built on taking natives and brutally murdering them then building on top of the rivers of blood.

Hooooooly shit, there are countries that have a right to give us grief about what we did to the Native Americans but Britain definitely isn't one of them.

For starters, you founded your country in the exact same way we did, coming in to someone else's country, killing the inhabitants, and claiming it for yourself. To be fair though, almost every modern country started this way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England

Secondly, consider the actions of the British Empire. You guys wrote the fucking rulebook on exploitation of native peoples. Britain was second only to Portugal in the matter of slave taking/trading. Not to mention the brutal methods they used getting ivory and precious metals from the African people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Darkness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade

The Irish would have a bit to say on this matter as well, I know there's a good bit of bad blood there after you invaded their country and claimed it for yourself. Plenty of unnecessary cruelties were visited on them once you guys had control as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromwellian_conquest_of_Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Wexford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_for_the_Settlement_of_Ireland_1652


If America was built on rivers of blood England was nursed on oceans of the stuff. This is only what I can remember off of the top of my head.

If I'm not mistaken, Heart of Darkness was about the Belgian mistreatment of the native inhabitants, not the British.

OT: As many people have stated before, I don't hate the Americans, I hate the warmongering politicians, decadent celebrity worship and ignorant racist dickheads.