What does the world have against America?

[Thyunda]

-snip

Iran's not so poor it has to rely on a Russian commercial airline to transport internationally illegal material. Don't be ridiculous.
And..you don't really buy this 'we need to find terrorist leaders' crap, do you? We all know it's bollocks. If they really just wanted to take down these Big Bad Guys, why are they sending an occupation force? I thought they were at war with an organisation, not a country.

And yeah. Let's not get started on how our government treats its own people - this thread was about the international view of America. Our government, for some reason, just doesn't trust us. We don't get freedom of speech, AND we have to apply for permission to protest.

The biggest oxymoron of our time has to be 'Illegal Protest'.

 

[anthony87]

I love my home itself because I have the opportunity to strive to be a better person, build a family and life that I'd love. In other places, I do not have that opportunity.

Thank you. This is why we love our country. Its not some misguided, uninformed nationalism. Its the fact that we can do whatever the hell we want and be assured that ourselves and our families are safe.

The resentment towards the US just blows my mind.

But...people in countries all around world can make families and better lives and so on for themselves. People and families all around the world are safe, exceptions notwithstanding. How exactly does that make America special?

Who said it made America 'special'? No one. We just said that that's why we appreciate our country and take pride from being able to contribute to it. Maybe when all you kids grow up and have families you will understand what security means.

Honestly, I've not seen a more immature, spoiled group of posters anywhere else. You all should appreciate what you have, not complain about it and take it for granted.

What? Where in this thread do you see anyone doing any of the things you've described? Not appreciating what we have? Taking things for granted? Those things have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

The dude you had quoted above, in the way he worded his post he made it sound as though America is the only place in the world where one could raise a family or something like that. Perhaps I was seeing something that wasn't there but unfortunately that's what I saw, to which I was merely saying that there's countries all over the world where people have the same opportunities.

And you wanna talk about immature? You've been spending this whole thread quoting people who agree with your viewpoint and basically doing nothing but giving the statement a big +1 while getting defensive as hell towards anyone who doesn't agree with you. You've been outright ignoring any valid points presented towards you. George Bush WAS an incompetent president. America WAS partly responsible for the global economic problems and saying things like " Yeah, and we also created nuclear energy. A clean and powerful resource for electricity. You're lucky the US developed it first, or our Earth would most likely be a fallout style nuclear wasteland." is some complete and utter bullshit. I'm not saying that it's not admirable that you seem to love your country so much but it's not perfect.

Yes some of the statements from people towards America are wrong. Yes some of them are just broad generalisations/stereotypes but there are those who are genuinely unhappy with actions and policies taken by America within the last few years. There are people who don't agree with the War on Terror, the killing of Saddam etc. Maybe you don't, that's fine but you don't have to go attacking every person that doesn't feel that way.

 

[jawakiller]

Wasn't that song made as part of a film mocking the ever loving shit out of America and their foreign policies? Wouldn't that kind of make your point sorta... invalid? Just sayin'

I just faceplamed so hard I might have broken my nose. Wow.

A bus full of special needs children would've seen the sarcasm I was displaying.

Just sayin.

Oh good, that's a massive massive relief. I've seen that video used seriously enough lately that I was starting to lose faith in people again.

Haha, fair enough. I probably should have been a little more extreme if I wanted everyone to get the sarcasm. Great movie though. I wish more people realized it was a parody.

 

[Starke]

And, as with Ireland, screaming for independence to every random passers by might still be a pretty good way to get your ass investigated by MI5.

This sums up your subject knowledge pretty damn well. With this single line, you have invalidated anything you have to say about the United Kingdom, or the Republic of Ireland.

Next time, try arguing for the Irish people against somebody who wasn't brought up to know what Tiocfaidh ár Lá means.

So, you're either a fan of the Empire stomping all over Ireland, or you're opposed. You cannot make a coherent argument saying it's both. Pick one, stick with it, then talk about invalidating arguments.

 

[gphjr14]

Yeah I know British Empire was huge.

And from what I've learned only Spain exterminated the natives, the Portuguese didn't, they used African Slaves to work in Brazil, that's all I guess.

Oh, except war on Muslims in North Africa. Portugal engaged war during many centuries against Islam to spread Christianism, but that was war, not genocide.

_____

More history for you to learn and another reason to hate US. The atomic bombs, one of them was on Nagasaki, that city was funded by Portugal, the first European country to contact Japan.

What?

The Portuguese killed and enslaved indigenous people of Brazil. Only thing that could really save them was converting to Christianity and even then they weren't guaranteed complete safety, and this in response to your original post.

Also what about Nagasaki? Don't recall US soldiers coming in raping, torturing, and slaughtering during WWII. Japan on the other hand made a public spectacle of wartime atrocities and there's the classic footage of Japanese women throwing themselves off cliffs because retreating Japanese soldiers told them the US soldiers would rape and eat them. There's also the issue of comfort women, Bataan Death March, and using civilians as human shields.

Did the people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima have a personal role in this? More than likely no.

Did Japan piss off a lot of people and refused to end the war long after everyone was tired of fighting? Yes

Did it end the war faster with less losses on the Allied side? Probably.

As you said it was war.

 

[Thyunda]

-snip-

And this just proves my point. The Irish aren't upset at the English for the Empire's actions, the rebels are rebels because the United Kingdom still insists on including Northern Ireland in its list of constituent states. A little bit like America counting the Middle East among its business. Do you see the similarities, or are you just going to pull the words 'hive mind' out of your arse again?
Not one of the Irish rebel songs I know includes the words 'British Empire'. They all refer to events in the past hundred years. Not imperial actions, mind, mainly military cruelty.
Hauntingly similar to the Iraqi opinion of American occupation.

Oh wait. That's me using my hive mind again. Oh, God forbid I might use my own experience of the Irish rebels to base my judgement on. Try communicating with some actual natives, rather than the odd Scottish kid you might have met in a chatroom. Don't trust Scots on anything they say about Scotland. It's all lies.
For example. They call it 'mist'. We call it 'death clouds'. Because that's what it is. Freezing death in the hills. Mist my arse.

 

[Starke]

-snip-

And this just proves my point.

Your point is that you can't pick a side? Okay, that's weird, but whatever makes you happy, I guess.

The Irish aren't upset at the English for the Empire's actions, the rebels are rebels because the United Kingdom still insists on including Northern Ireland in its list of constituent states.

Because, as we all know, the IRA was created long before the English invaded...

A little bit like America counting the Middle East among its business. Do you see the similarities, or are you just going to pull the words 'hive mind' out of your arse again?

I really don't. Could you explain it using smaller words and pictures, perhaps?

Not one of the Irish rebel songs I know includes the words 'British Empire'.

Well, that's a pretty hilarious metric. I can't remember ever hearing the word "iguana" in a song of any kind, does that mean they are mythical as well?

They all refer to events in the past hundred years. Not imperial actions, mind, mainly military cruelty.
Hauntingly similar to the Iraqi opinion of American occupation.

Is it? I don't know. I'm still not recalling us forcing the Iraqi people into drug addiction so we can buy their goods more easily.

Oh wait. That's me using my hive mind again.

Yeah, you might want to stop doing that, it's confusing you.

Oh, God forbid I might use my own experience of the Irish rebels to base my judgement on.

That might be helpful, you should try that in the future.

Try communicating with some actual natives, rather than the odd Scottish kid you might have met in a chatroom.

Oddly enough these have all been adults I've met face to face. The only conversation I've had with a Scottish kid in a chatroom revolved around Warhammer 40k, as I recall.

Don't trust Scots on anything they say about Scotland. It's all lies.

Okay... Wait a second...

I'm Scots-Irish, god damn it...

Hmm... So, you're either lying to me, or half-lying... hmm...

For example. They call it 'mist'. We call it 'death clouds'. Because that's what it is. Freezing death in the hills. Mist my arse.

 

[Starke]

Communism being evil is only a fact in ignorant peoples head.

Really. Then explain the moral calculus that gives you a claim to my wages. Under what rational moral basis are you entitled to any fraction of my wages?

Suppose you get sick, and it's difficult to afford your medicine. Is it moral for you to break into my house and steal my money to buy your medicine?

Except it's not about you. It's never about you, not you you, anyway. One of the generally accepted roles of governance is to see to the well-being of it's people. The means that it employs to do this are many and varied, including things such as defense spending, law enforcement, a judiciary. They protect you from dangers outside, and from each other. They also provide you with services, such as fire departments, roads, road maintenance and similar ancillary services.

To do this, they tax you. And, yes, that comes out of your pocket. Is that fair, or moral? Maybe not. There's a pretty good argument that taxation as a whole is an immoral thing, but is there a clear, better alternative? Not really, and things like income taxes are actually far more fair to the population than flat taxes, like a sales tax.

The issue is, some governments believe that their duty extends beyond simple common services, to the point of helping the disadvantaged. And honestly, that is a much needed service. A society functions better if someone is looking after the disadvantaged in the society. Now, it isn't absolutely necessary that this be a function of government, and there's a pretty good argument to be made that it will be more efficient if it is handled by an NGO. Still, it is a valid objective for a government.

Now, stepping back, none of this is communism. Communism is something completely different, this is socialism. The only question is how much protection does a government owe to it's people.

 

[Flac00]

without the US much of Africa would be starving and suffering from AIDS (yeah, we have slowed if not stopped that epidemic). Europe would have been ruled by Germany in the end after WW2 if the US never came in (though in all honesty, we would have joined in even if it wasn't for Pearl Harbor).

With or without the US, Germany would have never conquer Europe. USSR would have won eventually. USSR soldiers killed 4 out of 5 Germany soldiers, do the math.
US was important and everyone is thankful for their help, specially with the financing of armament to UK and USSR, but they are far to be the mighty saviors.

Sure, in the endgame, USSR did more damage. But that certainly wasn't true in the beginnings of the Nazi's campaign. Had the US offensive in Africa and presence in Britain existed, Germany would have been able to put all of its focus into defeating the USSR (especially if Rommel had been moved from Africa to the eastern front). The USSR would have not been able to stop the enormous blitzkrieg of German firepower because of this. What put Germany in was the fact that they were fighting a 2 front war, without the US, no second front (Britain played a part, however their forces had dwindled and they probably would not have lasted very long because of that unfortunately).

 

[Flac00]

This is really well written and i was honestly looking at the keyboard after reading this trying to decide what to add. I dont hate americans but as one "combined" country entity you can be rather dislikable.

I mean you can try and brush that genocide under the carpet as much as you like america but you were built on taking natives and brutally murdering them then building on top of the rivers of blood. Now you tend to be quite scared of anyone bringing change to your country from outside. We hate hitler for what he did but for some reason no one tends to hold this against you. It kinda rankles me that so many can die and no one even cares. The native americans are just a forgotten people. And when your average american complains about invading "aliens" the hypocracy makes me cringe.

Youre an OK bunch, but like the above poster said you tend to speak for the "west" like some kind of spokesman, and it kinda makes us come of douchy. I despise Mr cameron. I wish hed stop licking shoe for a minute to actually say some of his own stuff. Not that id even agree with it but hell its a start.

I'm sorry but you have no ground to stand on to say that (this is going on the assumption you are also British). Let me name a few nations that might agree with me that Britain has not been so favorable to them: Ireland, India, Scotland (when it was a country), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Swaziland, Rhodesia (north and south) Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Papua New Guinea, Iraq, Syria, Oman, the UAE, Burma, Bangladesh, China, Somalia, ect. Hmm, doesn't seem to be that spotless huh?

Not to mention the fact that EVERY EUROPEAN NATION HAS ENGAGED IN SOME SORT OF COLONIALISM. Sure, the US has a checkered past. I can tell you that I'm not proud of it. But it is certainly not as bad as many other nations who brutalized the people who lived in their colonies much worse than we ever did (talk to Spain about that). Not to mention our country has at least tried to make amends for its own actions in this area. I don't see Britain trying to fix the damage to the middle east and africa that has indirectly killed even more people.

 

[Flac00]

Yeah, so it is about rights. The right to be counted as an equal with your fellow human being. Whether your strait, gay, hermaphroditic, auto-sexual, whatever. The homosexual people simply want to be accepted as a person, not as something less. Sure, money plays a part, but its still the whole "separate but equal" clause.

True, but they're fighting for a title that originates and is inseparable from a religious institution. It doesn't make any sense to me why they would want to have any sort of ties to the very thing that demonizes them, unless its some sort of elaborate troll to piss off the people who treat them as less than people.

In which case, I fully support it.

Its not even that. Marriage goes beyond religion. Every culture has marriage, it isn't simply a Christian phenomenon. So homosexual people want to legally do what their ancestors have been doing for millennia, getting married.

 

[Flac00]

Woah, mr angry there (you might want to figure out how to quote as well)

Look, we don't think of ourselves as flawless, but can you say your country is any better? yeah, we have some radicals and ignorants. But can you say you don't have any? We aren't evil, we're flawed, but so is the rest of the world. We have problems, but we certainly have just as many if not a tad less than much of the world. So pull your head out of your tush and stop demonizing others. Everyone's to blame for the problems in the world, not just us.

You are a reasonable American, the kind I like. That Alladin dude or whatever is the kind most don't like. The attitude in his posts were that America IS flawless, American's ARE perfect, and there is NOTHING they have ever done wrong, and EVERYTHING ever done right was by them. That is the type of person that makes America look bad, and a major reason for people hating America. It is ok to love your country, and think that what they've done right is more than they've done wrong, but to go fanatical about it, say that your country is perfect, and then go and try to shove it in others faces... Yeah, that's why we hate America. Because of that type of American that is all too vocal. People like you give America a good name, and are why many people are 'I don't outright hate America, just some American's'. It is people like him that make people say 'I hate America'.

OK, I can agree with you there. My only issue is with even the idea that people can be counted as "good Americans" and "bad Americans". In all honesty we should not be generalizing about any group just because of its nation of origin (or birth at least). Thats what breeds intolerance and hatred.
Also I did not know what he said due to the fact that you didn't really quote there....sorry that I had no context. But judging from what you described what he said he sounds like a prick. Not an American prick, just a good old fashioned prick.

 

[Flac00]

Because they are fuckwits...

What? From my experience this is true. I know the only small number of americans I have met do not speak for the entirity of America, and I should not judge everyone from a few bad apples. But, the americans I have met have been complete arseholes and left me with a sour taste. They are bullies, thinking themselves better than everyone else and are way too proud over things "they" apparently did in the past.

Plus of course, the governmant, the world policing, the nukes, the "war on drugs", neglecting the citizens to favour companies, and favouring companies overall, obesity, etc etc.

Great, so does that mean I can stereotype you? Uh, if you are British then you are a tea drinking, upperclass halfwit who despite his wealth and habit of "stepping upon the natives" also feels he is better than the rabble who are simply riding your coattails, harumph!

I hope that isn't you and it obviously isn't true about British people. C'mon man, do you honestly think all Americans are assholes? Lets be honest, there are just as many a-holes in your country as their are in mine, there just happens to be more of us (technically that means we do have more assholes then you but thats for mathematical reasons). Lets not make assumptions before we know the facts.

Also, I am wondering about the "war on drugs" part. I know it isn't perfect, but it has at least dropped our usage of the bad stuff (heroine and other opiates) a bit.

 

[werejohnny]

Also, I am wondering about the "war on drugs" part. I know it isn't perfect, but it has at least dropped our usage of the bad stuff (heroine and other opiates) a bit.

The "War on Drugs" was probably one of the worst domestic policy decisions of the last century. It's greatest "success" so far has been to allow American law enforcement to incarcerate just slightly less people than were held in all Stalin's Gulags before WWII...

That's one thing that some modern European countries have gotten right: sane drug policy. Hats off to you.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

This is really well written and i was honestly looking at the keyboard after reading this trying to decide what to add. I dont hate americans but as one "combined" country entity you can be rather dislikable.

I mean you can try and brush that genocide under the carpet as much as you like america but you were built on taking natives and brutally murdering them then building on top of the rivers of blood. Now you tend to be quite scared of anyone bringing change to your country from outside. We hate hitler for what he did but for some reason no one tends to hold this against you. It kinda rankles me that so many can die and no one even cares. The native americans are just a forgotten people. And when your average american complains about invading "aliens" the hypocracy makes me cringe.

Youre an OK bunch, but like the above poster said you tend to speak for the "west" like some kind of spokesman, and it kinda makes us come of douchy. I despise Mr cameron. I wish hed stop licking shoe for a minute to actually say some of his own stuff. Not that id even agree with it but hell its a start.

I'm sorry but you have no ground to stand on to say that (this is going on the assumption you are also British). Let me name a few nations that might agree with me that Britain has not been so favorable to them: Ireland, India, Scotland (when it was a country), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Swaziland, Rhodesia (north and south) Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Papua New Guinea, Iraq, Syria, Oman, the UAE, Burma, Bangladesh, China, Somalia, ect. Hmm, doesn't seem to be that spotless huh?

Not to mention the fact that EVERY EUROPEAN NATION HAS ENGAGED IN SOME SORT OF COLONIALISM. Sure, the US has a checkered past. I can tell you that I'm not proud of it. But it is certainly not as bad as many other nations who brutalized the people who lived in their colonies much worse than we ever did (talk to Spain about that). Not to mention our country has at least tried to make amends for its own actions in this area. I don't see Britain trying to fix the damage to the middle east and africa that has indirectly killed even more people.

The difference is all those countries you named are still countries. Their own countries. We left. We are gone, these people ALL have their own countries back, even ireland and scotland. Every single person we once collonised now has their own nation. I dont see a native american nation anywhere. I feel that although we were dicks (cant deny it) its at least a little bit rectified now that we are gone and everyone has their own countries back again.

 

[Thyunda]

-evidence of braindeath-

What I said was, the Irish are not upset at the British empire. Our songs refer to far more recent events. We're upset at the NOW and not the THEN.

A bit like the Middle East. Sure, they were upset about the Empire for a while, but then America came stamping about making a mess, and suddenly they had bigger problems. Maybe when America gets grounded and can't come out to play anymore, they'll go back to hating the empire, but right now, America takes priority.


Do you understand yet?

 

[Starke]

The difference is all those countries you named are still countries. Their own countries. We left. We are gone, these people ALL have their own countries back, even ireland and scotland. Every single person we once collonised now has their own nation. I dont see a native american nation anywhere. I feel that although we were dicks (cant deny it) its at least a little bit rectified now that we are gone and everyone has their own countries back again.

Then you might want to get your eyesight checked. The native Americans have and are their own recognized sovereign nations. Recognized by both the US and Canada. That the UK still doesn't recognize them is saddening, but we are talking about a government that has so much respect for indigenous people to begin with.

And for the record: Iraq and Afghanistan both have their own autonomous governments as well. You know, something that no British colony was ever allowed while under imperial rule.

 

[-Samurai-]

obesity, etc etc.

I've always loved seeing this. Because the US is the only country that houses obese people. Nevermind the fact that it's like 8th or 9th on the list of the most obese countries.

Ah well. It doesn't matter. People hate us because they're unintelligent. Plain and simple.

Thanks for helping make the United States possible, England! We owe everything we do to you!

It's not the fact that you have it. But the fact that it is so prominent in your culture. Everything needs to be big, and big is always better. Ask to expand instead of assuming things. You just made yourself look bad.

Except the fact that the word "obese" refers to people, not things, and if you meant it to mean things, you misused it.

I'm not sure where you get that whole "Americans think bigger is better" bullshit, but it clearly isn't from a trip here, is it? Did you come here and see us living in skyscrapers, driving around house-sized cars while eating burgers as big as kiddie-pools and talking on cell phones the size of a PS3? No no. It's another one of those stereotypes that people like yourself believe.

But, hey, what would I know about American culture?

 

[Thyunda]

The difference is all those countries you named are still countries. Their own countries. We left. We are gone, these people ALL have their own countries back, even ireland and scotland. Every single person we once collonised now has their own nation. I dont see a native american nation anywhere. I feel that although we were dicks (cant deny it) its at least a little bit rectified now that we are gone and everyone has their own countries back again.

Then you might want to get your eyesight checked. The native Americans have and are their own recognized sovereign nations. Recognized by both the US and Canada. That the UK still doesn't recognize them is saddening, but we are talking about a government that has so much respect for indigenous people to begin with.

And for the record: Iraq and Afghanistan both have their own autonomous governments as well. You know, something that no British colony was ever allowed while under imperial rule.

For the record, the native Americans can stop whining about oppression. It's irritating. My culture is gone, too, shockingly. But I don't get money from the British government, and I don't ask for any. If I wanted compensation for the destruction of my ancestors, then I should also be taking money from the Italian and Scandinavian leaders. I don't see why I should stop at only four hundred years ago, I ought to go further.

This is how ridiculous they sound.

 

[Flac00]

This is really well written and i was honestly looking at the keyboard after reading this trying to decide what to add. I dont hate americans but as one "combined" country entity you can be rather dislikable.

I mean you can try and brush that genocide under the carpet as much as you like america but you were built on taking natives and brutally murdering them then building on top of the rivers of blood. Now you tend to be quite scared of anyone bringing change to your country from outside. We hate hitler for what he did but for some reason no one tends to hold this against you. It kinda rankles me that so many can die and no one even cares. The native americans are just a forgotten people. And when your average american complains about invading "aliens" the hypocracy makes me cringe.

Youre an OK bunch, but like the above poster said you tend to speak for the "west" like some kind of spokesman, and it kinda makes us come of douchy. I despise Mr cameron. I wish hed stop licking shoe for a minute to actually say some of his own stuff. Not that id even agree with it but hell its a start.

I'm sorry but you have no ground to stand on to say that (this is going on the assumption you are also British). Let me name a few nations that might agree with me that Britain has not been so favorable to them: Ireland, India, Scotland (when it was a country), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Swaziland, Rhodesia (north and south) Egypt, Sudan, Kenya, Uganda, Papua New Guinea, Iraq, Syria, Oman, the UAE, Burma, Bangladesh, China, Somalia, ect. Hmm, doesn't seem to be that spotless huh?

Not to mention the fact that EVERY EUROPEAN NATION HAS ENGAGED IN SOME SORT OF COLONIALISM. Sure, the US has a checkered past. I can tell you that I'm not proud of it. But it is certainly not as bad as many other nations who brutalized the people who lived in their colonies much worse than we ever did (talk to Spain about that). Not to mention our country has at least tried to make amends for its own actions in this area. I don't see Britain trying to fix the damage to the middle east and africa that has indirectly killed even more people.

The difference is all those countries you named are still countries. Their own countries. We left. We are gone, these people ALL have their own countries back, even ireland and scotland. Every single person we once collonised now has their own nation. I dont see a native american nation anywhere. I feel that although we were dicks (cant deny it) its at least a little bit rectified now that we are gone and everyone has their own countries back again.

Thats no difference. We took those areas due to them being owned by us. All of the other US territories (other than Hawaii but that had nothing to do with the US government at all) have been given back or have the ability to leave at any time. Plus, most of the places we left we never screwed up to such a degree that it is still felt today. The closest we got to that is the Maldives, they don't have huge poverty or warlords, they just have to deal with a bit of nuking. If England had a place that they literally owned, they would easily have taken it, oh right, Northern Ireland. Hm, that seems to be a good example of that. You tell the Irish that the British land owners who stole their property and let them starve in the potato famine that it wasn't that bad.