What's with "Iron Sights" in today's games?

[ultimateownage]

Don't download the Vietnam expansion then...no Red Dot or ACOG. Which, truth be told, makes for a more gritty infantry experience. Bloody hard to spot people in the jungle too.

Too bad the emphasis on making use of the jungle is ruined when you can just skim over a bush while spamming Q to reveal any enemies.

O.T. Call Of Duty did it, so others do. The only games I see do it are those CoD-esque 'realistic' shooters where you move like both your legs are broken, have no health bar, and die in two shots. and Killing Floor.
So if you don't like it, stop playing shooters like CoD. And use VATS more often, the ironsights in NV are pointless until you attach a scope.

I'm just going to ignore all the raging in the other pages.

 

[Foryn Gilnith]

With subhumans like this running the world, we can never hope for anything better than one big battle royal to end it all

If you fully support what you're saying, there's nothing wrong with that. No sense in self-censorship, after all. It's just that your views seemed somewhat unusual and it seemed that they may have been unduly influenced by anger.

Regarding the OP, I think it's just a fad. Designers thought iron sights would be a nice addition and put them in a game, and other designers followed. Judging from this thread, roughly the same number of people would be in favor of their exclusion or inclusion, and so it pretty much comes down to what the developers think, and it seems they think iron sights are a good idea.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Personally, I love them. Makes it feel like you're actually, you know, lining up a shot, as opposed to firing from the hip like normal.

It's far better than the horrible "pull the cross hair in more". That makes me feel like I'm just jutting my head forward to get a better shot, which is horribly stupid.

 

[Squilookle]

Holy Moly- keep your shirt on Tucker, you'll blow a blood vessel if you're not careful. If you want to know why I decided to butt in to your argument, it's because your whining was just getting too embarrassing to ignore. I thought I'd tip off the other guy to just back cautiously away before you blew your top but then... well... its too late now isn't it.

So let's talk.

That's all you little brats do, make assumptions.

Interesting point, considering in that one post you assume the following about me:

*I am a kid
*I am a brat (and a little one at that)
*I'm a hipster (actually a hipster pussy, whatever that is...)
*I don't know how to use tissues

Unfortunately your assumptions are all wrong. (Except for hipster pussy- I'll have to look that one up before I can say for sure if I am one of those or not...) And that's saying nothing about the further assumptions on your other post- y'know, about me saying something then running off without saying another word? Pretty risky saying that a few minutes after their first post... but I guess nobody thinks too straight with steam shooting out of their ears, so I'll forgive you for that one.

"oh ignore him, he thinks his opinions are facts"
Yes of course I do because I stated my opinion without kissing your ass first.

Hey, all I'm saying is once you state an opinion, you treat it as if it's etched in titanium and is untouchable. This attitude mostly came through in words from you such as:

Because they wanted to make it more realistic" False.

my question was when has a game ever been ruined by realism and because I proved your answer wrong your getting whiny and throwing names around.

What I said about these idiots being a cancer is just cold hard fact.

Do you even realize that we all get to die alone, overworked, and depressed?
you can think you won't be alone, but we all will be. We only see the sick and old for a few minutes, they spend their death alone and scared.

Seriously what was that last one about? Sounded like a Vietnam flashback or something.

And to reply to your reply to yourself before anyone else can reply:

First of all, if you think the GTA games were never headed for realism you never played 3 or you never played 1 and 2 because 3 was a huge leap towards boring realism.

For someone so determined to accuse others of not reading your posts, you ought to be a bit more careful with your own reading. If you had been paying attention I acknowledged a jump in realism from GTA 2 to 3, or did you just forget that was the point where GTA went 3D?

It's kind of quirky how quickly you leap to -yet another- assumption, this one being anyone with a differing opinion to yours about a game must simply not have played it. I can dig up examples from you in this thread if you would care to challenge that?

And I say again, what do you have to say to me kid?

I heard you the first time, and double posting doesn't bring in the replies any faster, y'know...

Little fuckers like you are not even human, your a human looking cancer on our planet. Somewhere down your family tree a freak that should have never breed with a human did and then multiplied. Now we have about a million of you mother fuckers.

That's... that's just beautiful, derelix. It must warm your heart at night to think of the exchanges you've had online from the safety of internet anonimity. I think I'm starting to understand your dying alone rant. Anyone with a temper such as yourself is surely headed that way, so do everyone a favour and calm down. Lay off the red cordial or something.

 

[TOGSolid]

snip

That was my first post in this thread :3. Why so mad?

freaks like me are living on minimum wage, if that.

Life sucks, get a helmet. You've only got yourself to blame for your lot in life so either man up or shut up.

 

[Therumancer]

With Fallout in paticular the issue was people who didn't "get it" with the RPG elements and how they could line up a shot perfectly and then still miss due to the die rolls/skill checks going on behind the scenes. The demand for "Iron Sights" was FPS fanboys wanting something to tell where their bullets were going to go. I have mixed opinions about their inclusion in "New Vegas" simply because I think that not only were they included, but general accuracy was affected by them and I think this kind of diminished the game as an RPG by making gunplay with low-medium skills a bit too easy.

 

[Steve Fidler]

Experience and upgrades are hardly 'RPG elements'. Maybe in the most minute sense of the word.

OT: New Vegas is an RPG, not an FPS. It stands to reason that the RPG mechanics of statistics and dice rolls (chance) would play more into the game's combat than iron sight aiming.

The most important aspect of an RPG that defines it is character development. Not in terms of character development through story, but as in building your character; I suppose Character Progression or Management is a more accurate term. Whether it is a predetermined hero, or one you create, or a nameless hand with a gun. The easiest way to show that in a quantifiable way is through Experience Points and Leveling. Although there are definitely other ways of doing it (such as having your character age as he reaches story milestones, or change in some way as a result of participating in certain groups such as the military or a trade.)

The term Role-Playing Game is misleading as almost anything from Final Fantasy, to Tony Hawk Pro Skater, to Monopoly could be termed as an RPG because you "take on the role of your character" so it is important to note that the distinguishing feature of an RPG is character development.

This is also the reason why Legend of Zelda is commonly though of as an RPG, but isn't. There is no character development in any Legend of Zelda game, simply the unlocking of new tools to open up new doors to new areas. There is no character progression at all.

The reason that Fallout is an RPG is because of the various weapon and ability stats, the Perks, and the SPECIAL stats that you gain while leveling. Not the fact that a random dice determines if your perfectly aimed shot was actually perfectly aimed or not. In fact, the 'half-way' point that Fallout 3 and New Vegas reached was detrimental towards the game, confusing FPS-minded players and RPG-minded players into thinking the game was one of those with elements of the other, when it was actually a hybrid, which didn't work quite as well.

 

[T3hMonk3y]

First of all, if you think the GTA games were never headed for realism you never played 3 or you never played 1 and 2 because 3 was a huge leap towards boring realism.


And I say again, what do you have to say to me kid?
This conversation had nothing to do with GTA until he brought it up so drop the fucking subject and explain to me why you and your little friend are accusing me of this shit.


I can take a lot of attacks but I DO NOT STAND FOR FALSE ACCUSATIONS


Understand kid? Stand by that shit you talk or just get the fuck out because I'm sick of little hipster pussies like you talking shit and then running away without saying a word. Little fuckers like you are not even human, your a human looking cancer on our planet. Somewhere down your family tree a freak that should have never breed with a human did and then multiplied. Now we have about a million of you mother fuckers.

Right there's no need for that at all, your acting more childish than anyone else here is this whole thread, your embrassing yourself, please just stop its painful to read this.

Of course I am now. I was fine before right, when you fuckers walked all over me like you cancer cells love to do. Now that I'm throwing those personal attacks back suddenly it's not so fun right?

It's more fun when he just stands there and lets you all walk all over him. It's not fun when he breaks and gets mean.


Fuck you kid, what do you have to say. What was so important about me that you have to attack me as a person? And don't even fucking pretend you didn't do it until I did, we both know that's a damn lie. I'm sick of hearing bullshit lies from little snots like you.

Right mate calling someone sub-human for aguring with you is way to far, you might wanna book yourself in for some anger-managment like seriously. I could understand if these people were muderers or something else horrible that you might be tempted to call them sub-human. But because they called you names. Seriously? You never taught "sticks and stones may break my bones....?" Your being a child. Stop it.

Oh I get it now, it was ok for them to say shit about me because I am sub human, but it was wrong for me to call them sub human. That clears it up for me.

I was being a child for the first 18 years of my life when I let everyone do whatever the hell they wanted to me. I was being a child when I decided to go to this site. What I said about these idiots being a cancer is just cold hard fact.

They may not be killers, but they're killing our species. You ever wonder why our planet is full of idiots?

because people like you protect the feelings of the stupid bastards that talk shit whenever they can but are too afraid to keep going when shit gets real.

It's killing our society. Our country is run by assholes like this if you haven't noticed. Spoiled little brats that think anybody that disagrees with them is just a target for their slander.

Never called you sub-human, please don't put words in my mouth, they never called you sub-human thats why im not picking up on what they said. And just because your technically an adult doesn't mean your an adult. Your still acting like a child so i'm going to treat you like one.

Wow your really have a god-complex don't you. A world full of you is a world i don't want to be a part of.

 

[Beryl77]

The problem with Iron Sights is that we're getting old and we have to accept that things change after a while.

 

[lostzombies.com]

.........Iron sights show the gun being fired by looking down the sights, as opposed to being fired from the hip therefore is more accurate.

How is that hard to understand/bad?

 

[Googenstien]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Personally, I love the iron sights. The fact they're shit on a few weapons is an issue of it's own, but in general they're awesome and they give the game a more realistic feel. A tip btw - just because you can't replicate every single bit of reality doesn't mean the strive for realism is entirely useless. Goes for just about every other aspect in both games and real life as well.

Oh and there are vests that give bullet hit feedback and you have modifications out there that give a weapon kick. Sooner or later, it'll be relatively widely available (though not necessarily as popular).

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

People seem to think they are more Hardcore if they can shoot you looking down video game sights.. nothing about any FPS is real or close to real

 

[Koeryn]

So a friend gifted me Battlefield Bad Company 2... what the hell is up with the sights?... every game seems to have "iron sights" when you aim, what was wrong with the damn cross hairs spread when normal and tighter when pulled in?

Yep, I'm with you on that one. Every time I discover a new game has ironsights it's just a massive 'aw crap they just had to, didn't they?' moment. I don't think it's realistic either- in real life we all have two eyes, and at any split second moment we can open the other eye to see things that are hidden behind the gun for the other eye. Seriously if I want a sixth of my already very limited view of an in-game world blacked out, I'd put a book in front of the monitor.

Not to mention their mere presence suggests that you'll never shoot straight unless you are using them. This is one reason why I hated the Wii Goldeneye- the original was as much about running and gunning freely as Unreal Tournament was about headshotting a dude while leaping between skyscrapers in low gravity. Try THAT with Ironsights. Plus it makes every insane kill replay look essentially the same over much of the screen.

If you like battlefield but hate Ironsights, you might be interested to know that before BF2, the series didn't use Ironsights, it used the spreading crosshair that you sound like you prefer.

It's one of many reasons why I much prefer playing BF1942 online. Even today. I might check to see who's on right now, actually, and jump in for some good action packed fun without ironsights.

Wait, open your eye? The hell are you shooting with an eye closed for to begin with? You lose depth perception, you lose field of view, it increases eye strain, I mean, seriously. There IS NO BENEFIT TO SHOOTING WITH ONE EYE CLOSED.


OT: I like them for many reasons all ready stated. This is my opinion.

Now as to your idea of having iron sights as a selectable option:

No, it would not work in multiplayer games. Having some people choose the option and some people abstain gives an unfair advantage to those abstaining as they magically have a greater field of view while using their shrunken crosshairs. You make an unlevel playing field that ruins the balance of combat.

 

[Vrach]

My personal assumption is they are going for realism with the firearms, but speaking as someone who grew up around guns, used them for sport, and competed in competitors I can safely say that no freaking games I've ever played has ever, or will likely ever, get the feel "real", the sound, the smell, the feel of kick, frankly the sights in the game are just annoying, and this coming from a man who prefers that type of sight on his rifles over a scope.

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Personally, I love the iron sights. The fact they're shit on a few weapons is an issue of it's own, but in general they're awesome and they give the game a more realistic feel. A tip btw - just because you can't replicate every single bit of reality doesn't mean the strive for realism is entirely useless. Goes for just about every other aspect in both games and real life as well.

Oh and there are vests that give bullet hit feedback and you have modifications out there that give a weapon kick. Sooner or later, it'll be relatively widely available (though not necessarily as popular).

Congratulations! You have an opinion!

Yeah, I kinda stated that with the word "personally", it denotes that the following sentences are merely a personal opinion