what about that massive period in history when the tsar (czar, or whatever way you spell it) ruled russiakeinushi said:
What's Wrong With Communism?
- Thread starter GoldenCondor
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exactly, you have a typical western view on communism. the reason people work is because they have to work to get money just like you and i (in Cuba anyway)sirbryghtside said:
in cuba, everyone gets money from the government (if you work or not) this is not enough to live on so people need to get a job. once you start working the government gives you a wage and everyone gets the same wage. Although as i went to cuba on holiday, the people who work in tourism make a little bit more than everyone else because they get tips.
i was talking to one person in Cuba who was in university studying to be a lawyer whilst working as a waiter, they earned more as a waiter because they got tips but they wanted to be a lawyer for justice. its different how people are motivated to get a better job for reasons other than money
exactly my point, it wouldnt work here but it does work in other countries. because in britian we have alot of people who dont work because they are to lazy and if everyone was getting the same, they definatly wouldnt work.sirbryghtside said:
also not to mention that britain is more left-wing (closer to communism, im sure you already know this) than America, we get free health care and education (although not university, unless you are from scotland) but we also earn different wages depending on our job and we also have lots of consumer goods so we have the best of both worlds
Oh yeah, propoganda like how Joseph Stalin killed more people than Hitler? Remember the Berlin Wall? People were willing to die to get to the Democratic side. You really think America is so bad, go to China and tell me (figuring your not jailed) how great it is. A thread like this wouldn't exsist in a Communist America...
What's wrong with it you ask? Simple: it doesn't work. Yes it looks great on paper, but the problem is that communism assumes that humans are like ants. But humans don't work like ants, that's a fact. Shame in a way, ants are pretty damned succesfull. Just look at the little buggers, heck I wished humans were so efficient sometimes. Ant colonies are communism at it's best, but that's simply not how humans are hard-wired.
Nah not really. I think that the founders of America ment that as: all men are born equal worthy, as in no person is worth more than the other, but they don't forget the fact that everyone is different, just that different doesn't mean worse. Communism takes "equal" completely literally. Also, America was founded with individual freedom as a point of reference, communism is all about working together for one big common goal.MA7743W said:
USE THE SEARCH BAR AND READ UP ON IT
I know we shouldn't be saying this but this thread is done twice a week ever since these forums were set up.
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Everything anyone could possibly say has been said a dozen times.
I don't like it because it assumes that everyone will be able to work the same amount and if they don't they still reap the benefits while other people need to take out the slack.
Doctors get paid the same as garbage collectors, and you can never earn enough to become comfortable or to move up in society. Your always stuck on the bottom rung eating shit from the government that runs everything and soaks up all of the money.
examples of Communism failing:
Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Benin
Bulgaria
Cambodia
Congo
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Ethiopia
Mongolia
Mozambique
Poland
Romania
Somalia
South Yemen
Yugoslavia
North Korea- Still communist but their people are starving
Vietnam- Still communist but their people are starving
Laos- Still communist but their people are starving
Russia (says their not)
Cuba Still communist but their people are starving, (at least they get a box of partially used band-aids every time they need a heart transplant.)
China- <-- changing many things but still a Communist nation
Its funny now that capitalist countries are giving hundreds millions of dollars of aid to most of those countries because the people are starving and the government doesn't care about them(marked with a dash). Most of the aid never even trickles past the government or the military, most of the time the government takes all of it then goes back to bashing the U.S and other capitalist countries. This is why I say we just cut them off and secure their borders from the outside and in a scientific experiment let their system work (about 20 years) and then when its done we count the bodies.
Other than that we won the Cold War with a capitalist system.
I know we shouldn't be saying this but this thread is done twice a week ever since these forums were set up.
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Everything anyone could possibly say has been said a dozen times.
I don't like it because it assumes that everyone will be able to work the same amount and if they don't they still reap the benefits while other people need to take out the slack.
Doctors get paid the same as garbage collectors, and you can never earn enough to become comfortable or to move up in society. Your always stuck on the bottom rung eating shit from the government that runs everything and soaks up all of the money.
examples of Communism failing:
Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Benin
Bulgaria
Cambodia
Congo
Czechoslovakia
East Germany
Ethiopia
Mongolia
Mozambique
Poland
Romania
Somalia
South Yemen
Yugoslavia
North Korea- Still communist but their people are starving
Vietnam- Still communist but their people are starving
Laos- Still communist but their people are starving
Russia (says their not)
Cuba Still communist but their people are starving, (at least they get a box of partially used band-aids every time they need a heart transplant.)
China- <-- changing many things but still a Communist nation
Its funny now that capitalist countries are giving hundreds millions of dollars of aid to most of those countries because the people are starving and the government doesn't care about them(marked with a dash). Most of the aid never even trickles past the government or the military, most of the time the government takes all of it then goes back to bashing the U.S and other capitalist countries. This is why I say we just cut them off and secure their borders from the outside and in a scientific experiment let their system work (about 20 years) and then when its done we count the bodies.
Other than that we won the Cold War with a capitalist system.
Well, my opposition to collectivism is at the core of my existence. I don't see what could possibly make you think that it's a good idea. Equality would have to be enforced to exist, and if equality was enforced, nobody would have any reason to try to succeed. You can't possibly expect people to give "according to their ability" if they are invariably to receive "according to their need." We would need slave labor to keep afloat in these conditions, which requires inequality and contradicts the message. Even if society could stay in this state, people would starve and/or technology would halt because of the drop in productivity.
Besides which, what would be good about economic equality?
There is no such thing as free health care. You've probably been watching too many Michael Moore or Harry Potter movies.
Other than that, how do you think communism would be implemented, if the problem truly lies here? It requires such absolute control and incorruptibility that no method of creating or running a government that we have ever seen could move us towards it. Democracy sure as hell wouldn't work. It attracts corruption like honey attracts flies. The reason it works is in the limited power of government, which wouldn't allow any forced attempt at communism.
Besides which, what would be good about economic equality?
There is no such thing as free health care. You've probably been watching too many Michael Moore or Harry Potter movies.
Other than that, how do you think communism would be implemented, if the problem truly lies here? It requires such absolute control and incorruptibility that no method of creating or running a government that we have ever seen could move us towards it. Democracy sure as hell wouldn't work. It attracts corruption like honey attracts flies. The reason it works is in the limited power of government, which wouldn't allow any forced attempt at communism.
Communism won't work because it's based on an ideal. It's based on the assumption that people will work together, totally selflessly, for the good of the whole group. This is impossible, it is impossible to be utterly selfless, all the time, and still have a working brain. Communism will never work, and I, for one say good. World peace and happiness may sound like a good idea, but to me it sounds boring.
Maybe you should examine your history a little more closely. No one was killed (or even arrested on charges of sedition) during the McCarthyism era (which lasted... what? 4 years?). If you're seriously interested in putting McCarthy in his context, try reading some more. (http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-McCarthy-Reexamining-Americas-Senator/dp/0684836254/ would be a good start). No one is killed for the expression of ideas in America. That makes it better than the 'Communism' in any country today.Souplex said:
Believe it.
//J.
I refuse to work together with people unless completely necessary.
It's not particularly bad but I don't want to share, so in a whole I am a greedy bastard who does not want to be forced to share money with poorer people and also America is not yet rich enough to have a middle class that's paid the same amount of money for each job.
Not while schools have differences in price, anyway.
The day they make college free is the day I start supporting Communism.
It's not particularly bad but I don't want to share, so in a whole I am a greedy bastard who does not want to be forced to share money with poorer people and also America is not yet rich enough to have a middle class that's paid the same amount of money for each job.
Not while schools have differences in price, anyway.
The day they make college free is the day I start supporting Communism.
The main problem with a land with communism as governement is that the only place were one could make a career(which I would argue is human nature to always get better and make more money) is in politics and rubbing asses with party rulers.GoldenCondor said:
The whole idea of communism works to a degree, but it sacrifices the drive for people to make things more efficient or find out new ways to make things for the market(since you get told how much and what you need to produce).
The second main problem is that communism(and all systems adopted planned economy) need REALLY intelligent and foreseeing people in order to make the internal market work, exactly how many tons of wheat that needs to be produced or how many cars, etc.
It just doesn't work in reality, as it's said in theory.