WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!
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I didn't know it was a message to get offended at things while completely ignoring context. If that is a "message" then I agree, I mocked them for it.Master of the Skies said:
You still need to explain to me how I am being discriminatory. If you've done it before then please illuminate that to me by re-quoting yourself because I clearly can not see it. Perhaps then we can discuss the merits of your accusation in that instance rather than going around in circles with me asking you to explain how I am being discriminatory with you stating you have already proven I have.
Being a hypocrite is not being discriminatory, by the way. If you wish to discuss me being a hypocrite I will gladly after we have tackled the issue of me being supposedly discriminatory - which I asked you a good many posts ago.
*looks around, trying to decide whether or not to wade into this mess, then puts on wading boots*Super Not Cosmo said:
Okay, this post slapped me upside the head with how close it was to the point the comic is making. Are you being satirical? Or did you break all the mirrors in your house?
First off, a comic about "a starving black man who's (sic) food stamp card was hidden under his work boots" would be strictly a racist stereotype. Why? Because the SNAP program is used mostly by working adults with kids and more white people are on it than black. And yet, every time food stamps is mentioned, it comes down to black people defrauding the system. Not black working parents getting food stamps, or just people in general defrauding the system. Specifically, fraud by black people. It doesn't rely on reality or facts; it simply picks out a group of people to portray negatively.
This is opposed to what the comic is saying, which is that there is a group (and let's face it, a very large and vocal group) of white men who will scream loudly every time racism is brought up. They even have their very own news network! The comic was not a joke about white male stereotypes. If it was, it'd have touched on, I don't know, hillbilly cousin sex. There is a huge difference between an offensive stereotype and an actual reality. You, yourself, fall into that latter group.
If this comic was actually an 'offensive stereotype,' like your example, then it would have something in common. So let's go over that. Are there equally large groups of non-white or non-male people screaming about how there's racism against white men? Hm, some white women agree, but not in equally large groups. And certainly few minority groups could match white men in this.
Does it state something untrue (such as most welfare recipients committing fraud)? No, because there is a fairly large and vocal group of white men complaining every time someone even thinks of racism as a cause for someone's behavior. Like I said, they even have their own news network. I'd even go so far as saying they have their own political party, too.
And lastly, did this comic broadly apply the "stereotype" to all/most white men (such as 'all or most black people are on welfare') or was it specifying a group of white men? No, it was not saying that all white men do this. However, it was saying that the problem is widespread enough that there always seems to be at least a few white guys around who will show up to complain about how they're being offensively stereotyped.
And you just proved them right. Good job.
Butt-masonry sounds like it could be a thing.Scarecrow said:
EDIT: Dear God this thing reached 20 pages. WE DID IT JOHNNY!
Nah, buttlonging's got a better ring to it. The hard 't' sound followed by the 'h' doesn't flow as well, in my humble opinion.Scarecrow said:
[hr]
[HEADING=3]On a completely unrelated note![/HEADING]
captcha: sudo make sandwich
Hm . . .
"make: *** No rule to make target 'sandwich'. Stop."
Well, so much for that idea.
Didn't say that. Where did you even get this from?Smilomaniac said:
So you admit your argument is not based on fact and entirely on anecdotal evidence. Ok then.Smilomaniac said:
Then why are you even here? That's what this comic is about, black people in video games.Smilomaniac said:
No, I'm painting you as a mens rights activist because you advocated for mens rights (see, because you know, that's what "men's rights activist" means). And when did men's rights suddenly become the opposite of woman's rights anyways? I don't have a problem with men's rights. I have a problem with this "no this comic is really about white males and I know exactly how you think" mentality that you seem to have.Smilomaniac said:
Never insulted you. Unnecessarily hostile? Maybe. Insulting? No.Smilomaniac said:
Role theory, away!bunji said:
Okay, this isn't religion and politics forum and you're not really trying, so I'm not going to make this too long. But this kind of thinking sucks because it's basically a conspiracy theory with no conspirators. The only form of "oppression" in this scheme is failing to meet the exacting standards of "society", society in this case having no relationship to actual human beings and being merely the effects of socialization.
The problem is that when you actually get out and talk to men who take on dangerous jobs, when you talk to men who join the military, when you talk to heavy industrial workers, you quickly realize that they aren't undervalued. They aren't detested by society, they aren't consigned to the bottom of the heap by society's deep loathing of men as a group. Actually they're often some of the most respected men within their particular cultural schema (which may not be the same as all of society) and men will compete to occupy these positions, even when confronted with the possibility of easier or safer work. Even if these positions do not entail much power or wealth they're often held up as paragons of masculinity and virtue, and part of this respect is due to the assumed ability of those men (and to a lesser extent men in general) to handle risk, to deal with difficult situations. This kind of high-risk behavior does not indicate worthlessness or disposability at all, it actually indicates effectiveness and competence, through the presumed ability to deal with risk.
In fact, isn't that pretty much what you're saying here? "Men deserve respect because they do all the hard and dirty work"? If this "glass cellar" was such a terrible thing, why would you say that? Why wouldn't you be wanting to help all the poor brainwashed men who have clearly become convinced of their own disposability at the hands of an evil feminized society or whatever? Oh right, because they haven't, and you know that really. They do these things because they are rewarding, because they grant genuine social legitimacy which, to some degree, all men benefit from. This isn't a reason why men are oppressed, it's a reason why men remain socially dominant.
Incidentally, don't talk like you're in the fucking Matrix while quoting shit which was already old in the 1970s.
The "White Guy Defense Force" is quite ironic. We talk about how ridiculous women are for complaining about sexism in video games, or how foolish blacks are for injecting race into the Trayvon Martin case, but then we turn around and start making comments about how bad society treats us. We point out how petty minorities are when they play the race/gender card, then we turn around and play the same card ourselves. Why do white males adopt the exact same behavior they criticize minority groups for?
Think of this the next time they turn a traditionally white character into a black man. Isn't that the kind of petty, unimportant issue that we ridicule black people for making a big fuss over? How are you any better by following suit?
Think of this the next time they turn a traditionally white character into a black man. Isn't that the kind of petty, unimportant issue that we ridicule black people for making a big fuss over? How are you any better by following suit?
Hah, youre funny. Yes this comic makes fun of white stereotypes, like the overamped manlet, the fat mlp brony and the fedora wearing pseudo intellectual. There you have your stereotypes. I dont see how "fat, socially inept brony" is somehow less offensive than "lazy". Hell, I'm lazy, Ill even admit that. Its also even called "white guy defense force" so you cant really argue that it isnt specifically aimed at white men. They are also no more true for the average white male population than the lazy black guy. So so far everything you have said is just wrong.Overquoted said:
The rest of your post is fairly bloated and in need of some editing. I suppose you mean to say that it is supposed to be baiting people into complaining about how it is always open season on white males? Well, touché, here we are.
That doesn't invalidate that claim in the slightest tho. It is the equivalent shouting N****R in harlem and then that somehow is making fun of the black people who would come out and ask you what the fuck.
I laughed. I laughed so goddamn hard. I'm lying here on a Saturday morning (GMT +2) about to head to work, and could not be less enthusiastic about it. Then I decide to check the Escapist randomly and wham... best laugh in a good while. Unbelieveable! 
DDD
DDD
I dont agree with that sentiment, there is no way anyone considers say a nurse (typical female job) in someway less than a garbace collector, a sewage pumper or a dockworker. In fact, its pretty much the opposite. Are you really trying to imply that even the fact that men get all the shittiest, dirtiest low income jobs is somehow a male priviledge? Thats kind of funny.evilthecat said:
Congratulations! You found the point of the comic!MuffinMan74 said:Uh huh, it just happens to have a defense of "there needs to be more black protagonists/why isn't this a black guy" then for no reason people who disagree with that argument show up and act like idiots.lacktheknack said:He said one thing, did no actual defending, and then tried to leave. That's not a true counterpoint to the White Guy Defense Force stooges.MuffinMan74 said:The black guy.lacktheknack said:I don't recall a calm and smart person in the comic.MuffinMan74 said:Master of the Skies said:
The comic is basically on the same level as this
The black guy is defending a loaded question.lacktheknack said:
And you know as well as I do that the subject that the black guy was talking about was NOT the point of the comic. To imply it was is to be entirely disingenuous.
I don't agree with that sentiment. There is no way anyone considers say a garbage collector in some way less than a domestic cleaner, prostitute or single parent. See, I can make weird arbitrary comparisons too.bunji said:
But, more significantly, would any of those people want to be nurses?
Being a nurse is a perfectly respectable job for a woman, it's traditionally seen as physically undemanding and reflects presumed female competences of caring and nurturing (though that is changing a lot). The problem is that being good at caring and nurturing doesn't allow you to be seen as a very effective human being.
You may look down in some level on men who do manual labor, and you may feel that they don't meet with your expectations of how men "should" acquire social value. That's normal, masculinity is socially stratified and far more varied in the range of acceptable expression than femininity (which, again, makes the notion of men being subject to generalized "oppression" incredibly silly). However, within a particular schema of traditional working class identity defining yourself through manual labor is often seen as something innately virtuous, as something which speaks of your toughness or virility as a man, and which is ultimately considered "more manly" than less physically demanding jobs. Moreover, most of us buy into this to some degree. Millions of boys who will probably grow up to have cushy office jobs spend their free time pretending to be soldiers in Call of Duty, there's a reason for that.
The feasibility of this has changed to a large degree in modern service economies, and it's generally what people speak of when they talk about the crisis of masculinity. Traditional working class ways of living have been largely wiped out in the past few decades by globalization, and it's caused a great deal of problems for working class men (and to some extent certain ethnic minority men) who are still defined by unrealistic expectations of the social legitimacy of dangerous or manual labor.
As an african american male, I'm starting--actually no, scratch that---I am very much offended by content like this. You want race to stop being an issue? Stop making it one. I honestly do not care if the character I'm playing as in a game is black or white. All I care about is if the character is interesting or not. It means nothing to me if my character has dark skin, nor do I really need someone "championing" a cause for me to bring more characters that have the same skin tone as I do into a game as the main focus.
Shoehorning race into any sort of medium to draw attention to a subject is pointless. Why? Because the experiences through skin color aren't very different in life. What actually divides people more often than not is economic differences in areas as well as education. This comic isn't funny, it paints a picture that no matter where I go, I'd have two choices:
1) Get pity from others because I am black, and I should be "accepted."
2) Get ready for a life of having my skin color be the main focus of what makes me an individual.
To be perfectly honest with you, I'd far rather deal with a moron who'd throw racial slurs at me than have to be "protected" or "understood" by a group that thinks I need their protection, or to be understood, or to be subject to tolerance. At the very least with a racist I'd have the chance to stand up to them/walk on my own two feet.
My skin color doesn't define me, and I really wish people would stop making cases where that's the most interesting aspect of myself. So thanks, thanks for putting up that shield in front of me that I really don't need. Oh, and about that Zimmerman crack? He's been found innocent in a court of law. Was it fair? I haven't the slightest idea, but it was justice and that's all there is to it. Let. It. Go. This honestly offends me worst than someone throwing slurs my way.
Edit: P.S. The sooner we all stop making an issue about the differences in race/how unfair things are for one race or the other and just TREAT others the same (I.E stop referring to each other as "Black" or "White") the sooner it stops being an issue. The only reason I did in this post was to make a point. In my every day life, it makes me sick at the thought of defining or placing another in a category by their race.
Shoehorning race into any sort of medium to draw attention to a subject is pointless. Why? Because the experiences through skin color aren't very different in life. What actually divides people more often than not is economic differences in areas as well as education. This comic isn't funny, it paints a picture that no matter where I go, I'd have two choices:
1) Get pity from others because I am black, and I should be "accepted."
2) Get ready for a life of having my skin color be the main focus of what makes me an individual.
To be perfectly honest with you, I'd far rather deal with a moron who'd throw racial slurs at me than have to be "protected" or "understood" by a group that thinks I need their protection, or to be understood, or to be subject to tolerance. At the very least with a racist I'd have the chance to stand up to them/walk on my own two feet.
My skin color doesn't define me, and I really wish people would stop making cases where that's the most interesting aspect of myself. So thanks, thanks for putting up that shield in front of me that I really don't need. Oh, and about that Zimmerman crack? He's been found innocent in a court of law. Was it fair? I haven't the slightest idea, but it was justice and that's all there is to it. Let. It. Go. This honestly offends me worst than someone throwing slurs my way.
Edit: P.S. The sooner we all stop making an issue about the differences in race/how unfair things are for one race or the other and just TREAT others the same (I.E stop referring to each other as "Black" or "White") the sooner it stops being an issue. The only reason I did in this post was to make a point. In my every day life, it makes me sick at the thought of defining or placing another in a category by their race.
On an actual serious note: never understood the needless complexity of the argument regarding character race. There's no need for anything more complex than "we wanted him to be white". The author, not the reader, chooses his characters. Changing a character's race, gender or what have you under pressure to appease group X is just as bad as anything else. I always find myself asking; if it doesn't matter that the main character is X or Y (in this case white or black) why can't he remain X then? It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.