Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

[EternallyBored]

No, there's no problem with liking it.

There is however a problem with liking it and immediately decrying and refusing to support say, Final Fantasy's feminine male characters that are made for opposite gender titillation and/or claiming that said female character types are the only character body types females should have.

Note: Not saying this is what you are doing.

On that note, am I a bad person for not finding FFXIII's androgynous emotionless-pit of nothing appealing? I also don't like the color pink on anyone, including girls.

Also, do western women find these "girly males" attractive? In the media I consume it seems to be big in Japan and South Korea, I wanted to know the opinion of others. To me it seems like they took the western metrosexual trend and went overboard with it.

Given the popularity of Boy bands, Justin Beiber, the Twilight Saga, and numerous other pieces of ludicrously popular western media I would say the effeminate male is definitely popular here to an extent. Maybe not as popular as in Asia, but that's hard to tell because most of what get's imported over here is stuff that sells; Hence why the effeminate Jpop and Kpop bands do have fairly large followings in the west.

Also with the popularity of anime and games that feature males like Sephiroth in the west, there's definitely a significant enough market that is being supplied to.

 

[generals3]

This week I watched the review of Dragon Crown and read the Critical Miss comic about it and there were a lot of people posting about how bad/stupid/disgusting the female body shapes were in the game. And I remember there was a similar uproar awhile ago about that Hitman: Absolution trailer where Agent 47 fights a bunch of stripperiffic nun assassins.

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Nono. You've got it all wrong. You're not a bad person, those who try to cater to your desires however absolutely are. (note the sarcasm at the end)

You see this whole debacle is nothing more than the age old "I want more of this!" or "I want less of this!" complaints. The only difference is that now instead of just stating these things as opinions people have decided to make their argument stronger by adding "sexusm!" at the end of it. The beauty about it is that instead of appearing as a selfish consumer who wants his needs to be catered to like everyone else they now appear to be some kind of Grand Crusaders Of Social Justice. (And people fall for it!)

 

[ShiningAmber]

No, you're not a bad person for liking those things.

It is bad though when that is all women are seen/allowed to be - objects. How would you feel if the tables were reversed?

 

[makano]

No, you're not a bad person for liking those things.

It is bad though when that is all women are seen/allowed to be - objects. How would you feel if the tables were reversed?

Men are objectified by women just as much as the reverse, and from my experience, more so. Which is kind of hypocritical if you ask me. It seems to me that objectifying the opposite sex is a human thing to, but only males seem to be accused of doing so in a negative manner.

what? How are men objectified more?

please, elaborate

please see this link
http://i43.tower.com/images/mm111492802/slaves-love-erotic-stories-ancient-rome-j-p-bowie-paperback-cover-art.jpg

 

[makano]

I will elaborate but i am not here to change your opinion on it you can only do that yourself.
As a fat guy i find myself compared to the big abbs etc of the covers of women's mags/books i find it dehumanizing and hurtful so i go out of my way to make it a fact that women are just as sexist as men are, men are just a lot more open about it. who would you like more tall dark hansom player twat or a fat ugly guy.

Oh and if you say "get in shape" etc i ask you if you are a women "grow bigger tits" i don't care about you and you don't me so "jog on".

 

[FireAza]

At the risk of oversimplifying the issue, the representation of woman in gaming is currently a hot button issue for gamers. As such, many of us don't want to be seen as part of the problem, so we are quick to condemn something in a game that appears to be a negative portrayal of women in games, which makes us feel superior.

 

[wulf3n]

How would you feel if the tables were reversed?

when this,

is in a videogame, call me, but until then...I don't know...do whatever it is you're doing?

Now I can't speak for everyone but I'm okay with it.

Fan-service is nothing more than titillation, not some hidden patriarchal belief to see all women as subservient objects.

 

[generals3]

Beyond ignorant to claim 90% of games are targeted exclusively for men. Even disregarding the fact that is the most idiotic business decision ever, just because they are pandering towards a demographic does not mean they are not also trying to cast a wider net.

Okay, if they're "casting a wider net" lets see some more games with female protagonists. Shouldn't be too hard for their wide net.


Frankly, neither one of you know what "objectification" is, and it's certainly not "oh man there's guys hotter than me in a videogame and girls are attracted to it instead of me!"

when this,

is in a videogame, call me, but until then...I don't know...do whatever it is you're doing?

A: You seem to suffer from tunnel vision. Most video games don't feature protagonists at all. Pretending that the amount of female protagonists determines how much the industry cares about women is absurd.

from mobile gaming stats:

B: if there was a video game like that... BIG DEAL. Why would that even matter?

 

[Jenvas1306]

as dragons crown is such a topic right now, why not use it as an example here?
I dont really mind the bodystyles of the female characters, atleast they show some vatiation and I get that its the artstyle of being so overdrawn that also applies to the male characters.
its something else that I have noticed in a lot of video game art: their empty faces.

those expressions dont say "Im ready for battle", or "Im a firce warrior" or "Im a nimble elf". they are mostly empty with something like the hint of the expression certain woman may keep while making their money horizontally. Or maybe its just a general "fuck me" expression.

that is what bothers me. the face and eyes should be a mirror of ones self or not? reflecting character that way is so easy, but these gals look like they have none.
Or mayb they are just too botoxed up and are making bubbles with invisible gum?

 

[Easton Dark]

its something else that I have noticed in a lot of video game art: their empty faces.

those expressions dont say "Im ready for battle", or "Im a firce warrior" or "Im a nimble elf". they are mostly empty with something like the hint of the expression certain woman may keep while making their money horizontally. Or maybe its just a general "fuck me" expression.

that is what bothers me. the face and eyes should be a mirror of ones self or not? reflecting character that way is so easy, but these gals look like they have none.
Or mayb they are just too botoxed up and are making bubbles with invisible gum?

I've noticed that too, but something even more prevalent in both art for video games and movie posters, are the stances.

There's that funny image of what it would look like if all the avengers stood like Black Widow.

And it's happening in that Dragon's Crown image you had too. The only reason the elf doesn't seem as immediately pandering as the sorceress and amazon is she has more clothes, that's the only reason. She's bearing her ass to everyone for all intents and purposes. (which is fine with me, she's the only character I like the look of)

 

[EternallyBored]

Snip

I've noticed that too, but something even more prevalent in both art for video games and movie posters, are the stances.

There's that funny image of what it would look like if all the avengers stood like Black Widow.

And it's happening in that Dragon's Crown image you had too. The only reason the elf doesn't seem as immediately pandering as the sorceress and amazon is she has more clothes, that's the only reason. She's bearing her ass to everyone for all intents and purposes. (which is fine with me, she's the only character I like the look of)

Oh wow your right the elf is facing with her ass to the camera, I just thought she was facing her whole front towards it, I think that has got to be one of the most awkward poses I have ever seen. I really should learn not to get my hopes up when it comes to this kind of thing.

 

[The Material Sheep]

No, you're not a bad person for liking those things.

It is bad though when that is all women are seen/allowed to be - objects. How would you feel if the tables were reversed?

That's not all women are allowed to be, whatever your world view might dictate as the case. Dragon's Crown was a niche title, for a niche demographic and only got so much attention because a certain subset of people had to come out of the wood work to be offended about something.

If you don't like Dragon's Crown, don't buy it. It's not part of the gender related problems in the medium and it wasn't created for mass appeal. There is a place for personal preference in the culture. This game or it's aesthetic have not dominated the market of video gaming or even close to it. In fact, neither has Dead or Alive. The problem that exists, exists in mainstream development not wanting female protagonists. THAT is a problem. Nothing about Dragon's Crown is a problem for the industry. You not personally liking it, does not mean it's symptom of the problems in the industry.

(EDIT) Oh dear lord, the short sentences hurt my eyes.

 

[Woodsey]

The problem is with them being depicted as sexual objects to titillate 14-year-old boys and little else.

It's not about you liking big boobies.

And the specific problem with Hitman: Absolution's nuns was that Blood Money used overtly sexualised characters to help illustrate a diseased world and arguably less the impact of playing the bad guy. (Notice how all the targets in the game tend to be child abusers and murderers and rapists and drug barons and other assassins?) It also helps illustrate the mindset of someone who is presented as largely asexual. Combine that with all the religious imagery the series has adopted and it borders on a twisted Christ allegory.

Point being, all that over-the-top sexuality was presented in contexts that made sense for women to be walking around in light bondage gear and bikinis, and it drives towards a larger thematic point. In Absolution they're an assassin squad dressed in BDSM suits in a fucking motel car park.

 

[SuperfastJellyfish]

Loving the entitlement. Feeling like you're being personally insulted for something you're misinterpreting.

 

[generals3]

Loving the entitlement. Feeling like you're being personally insulted for something you're misinterpreting.

I don't think it's related to entitlement. It's actually a natural response. When someone constantly associates a product you like to some kind of evil social injustice you will feel targeted. That's why many activists often go straight to consumers to tell them about the bad practices of the producers of the products they consume, to make them feel bad about their purchases so they stop buying it.

The free market is a two way street. If you blame game producers for making too many big tits you're also blaming consumers who are making it a profitable business. Because if it wasn't for them game devs wouldn't make games with over sexualized women (or at least much less). It may not be intentional but the guilt inducement is still present.

 

[Schadrach]

I think the whole Dragon's Crown thing is a little misunderstood. It's all an intentional over the top artstyle for everything involved. Males included. It's not like they went LOL TITS for no reason (*cough*DOA*cough)

You make it sound like much like there's two wildly exaggerated female characters and one kind of realistically proportioned one that the male characters might have one kind of realistically proportioned one, a fuzzy pea on top of a tin can, and a roughly spherical dwarf.

 

[KOMega]

To put it another way, I like The Big Bang Theory. I don't identify with it. If someone insults The Big Bang Theory, I don't feel like someone is insulting me. I usually laugh and move on with my life.

Your sense of reason is a breathe of fresh air.

Anyways. Another thing I find funny. The whole point behind the idea that people are offended by these is because they objectify women right?
However, those who cry sexism at first glance at some slightly disproportionate people (People just have poor stomachs I guess) are basing a lot of their own reasons based entirely on looks, while those who are acknowledge the art style and then talk about the game... as a game!

Plus hitman and dragons crown, from what I can tell, are purposefully humorous and exaggeratedly silly.
I'd name a few other examples, but I'm in fear of accidentally leading those who judge on sight to the things I like.

 

[KOMega]

To put it another way, I like The Big Bang Theory. I don't identify with it. If someone insults The Big Bang Theory, I don't feel like someone is insulting me. I usually laugh and move on with my life.

Your sense of reason is a breathe of fresh air.

You may be misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying if someone thinks Dragon's Crown, Hitman, or video games in general are sexist, it's silly and irrational to respond as though you personally have been insulted. People not liking the things that you like does not make those people evil.

I'm not saying they are evil. And I don't feel personally insulted if someone doesn't like something I like. But how much reasoning that goes on when they do go on the attack just baffles me.

You're really missing the point of critics of the game, I think. And calling the characters in Dragon's Crown "slightly" disproportionate is being far too charitable.

Personally, my whole issue with Dragon's Crown since I was first aware of it was not the juvenile depiction of the characters. It was the artist's juvenile response to people who didn't like the characters. He did exactly what I'm cautioning against, he tried to gay-shame anyone who didn't like his game to silence valid criticism.

Well, critics are another thing. I'm speaking about just people in general. Critics make it their job to review and well... criticize every aspect of the game. I get that. I just get iffy when people in general toss out final judgements so quickly with little reason. However much I may disagree with a critic, at least they write up their reasons. Even if I disagree with the reasons, they are reasons.

Perhaps "slightly disproportionate" is a bit charitable. But it's definitely not the strangest thing I've seen in gaming.

Oh yes, the three dwarves. I thought that was a bit funny. Some juvenile humor to be sure, but they were pretty civil after that. I think it ended quite civilly. I don't think I followed the whole story though, so if they indeed went at each others throats, then by all means yell and berate at them. But for the right reasons.

 

[generals3]

Not really. I mean, surely by now all of us have heard someone make an argument for vegetarianism at some point in our lives. In my experience most people who aren't vegetarians simply don't give a shit about what the person advocating for vegetarianism thinks about meat. It's no skin off our noses. But video games (and guns, it seems) are different. A lot of people don't just see them as things they like, they see them as part of their identities. So they lose the ability to separate criticism of some aspect of the hobby with criticism of themselves. Which leads to lots of hysterical responses.

To put it another way, I like The Big Bang Theory. I don't identify with it. If someone insults The Big Bang Theory, I don't feel like someone is insulting me. I usually laugh and move on with my life.

See now, nobody takes vegetarians seriously. But the problem is that video games are already a huge target of crap. As such any crap is going to be taken more seriously. (Though If the forum rules wouldn't prevent me I would totally opt for the "point and laugh" method)

On top of that you need to realize the accusations are also graver. Nobody cares about cows but people do care about sexism. And being told those games they like are part of some big sexist issue, well, ain't gonna pass. (and that's also very very different with just saying "that game is stoopid")

 

[generals3]

You don't think vegetarians are also "already a huge target of crap"? You don't think Big Bang Theory is "already a huge target of crap"?

Alright, let's give another example. I like painting miniature figures, and miniature wargaming. I like sci-fi and historical military modeling. Unfortunately, there's a large overlap with these hobbies and very sexist products, as well as a subculture that's unusually interested in recreating Nazi equipment and uniforms compared to the public at large. So it's not uncommon for people to attack the hobby as sexist or overly friendly with nazism. This has beeen going on for a while, so miniature wargaming also is "already a huge target of crap". These are very grave accusations.

I still don't take them personally. Because I know they don't apply to me.

There are some lines of models that feature explicit nudity (both male and female). I dislike these models when contextually inappropriate, but I quite like these models when they fit the context they are made for. There are some people who claim that all wargaming models that feature nudity are bad, and that anyone who likes such models must be a pervert. So there not only is someone criticising something I like, but they're insulting me. And when that happens, I don't lash out the way some people here do when video games get criticized. Because I know the criticism is incorrect. But I'm not so insecure in myself that I have to silence everyone who dislikes what I like.

Face it: you don't have to take it personally when someone criticizes a game or criticizes games in general. You choose to. So the question you have to ask yourself is why you choose to take it personally.

I suspect for a great deal of gamers, the lashing out has less to do with what the criticism is and more to do with who is making the criticism. When Jim Sterling criticizes games, the response isn't nearly as vicious as when a self-professed feminist woman who doesn't look much like a gamer does. So a lot of people respond like they've been personally attacked, because they don't like the messenger. Not because the message demands it.

See now, it seems you don't know what kind of crap games face. Call me when politicians or shitty lawyers try to regulate miniature figures based on stupid assertions. And those models aren't probably even known by 10% of the population. (unlike video games which everyone has heard of).

And secondly, define "lash out". If calling people on their false claims is lashing out than you probably should too when those guys insult your hobby and you.