Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

[Phasmal]

It's a little annoying that you can't criticise these things without people who like them taking it as a personal attack.

You're not a bad person to like it.
You might be a bad person if you expect your status as the pandered-to majority to always be unchanged and unchallenged.

If it was a little more even, it wouldn't really be a problem.
But it's not.

Personally I'm keen on sexy elf guys. But if pretty much all male characters were sexy elf guys I might be craving a little diversity.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Yeah, I got that impression. It's just the talk of muscles and flailing genitals got me thinking about that game.

Honestly I'm in a weird position on sexual appearances on women. I like it, but there's obvious limits on what I think's tasteful. Sex sells, but too much of a good thing is a bad thing, I'd say.
Unfortunately there's no way to temper the industry as a whole. They won't check in with eachother to see who's doing what so some make reasonble representations. That said, I'm willing to make some concessions about the T&A factor.

I still pine for women dressed smartly, capable, and brave, that we can call possibly call rolemodels to become better known, and more common in modern media, though. We definitely need to see more than a few this decade.

We definitely need more female protagionists in general. I'd like a variety of them.

i tottaly agree! unlike Anita sarkesian, i'm not against women being sexy or violent or anything. However it annoys me when boob laden idiots are all we see of women, or the few female protagonists (which male gamers seem intent on holding up as the proof that gender issues dont exist) that are actually good, also happen to be gorgeous and perfect otherwise. Its just a hard standard to live up to and insulting at best. Variety is the spice of life! and if we could get sexualised men every now and again, thatd feel more inclusive as well.

Not that I'm a fan of Anita, but I don't think she's against violent women, just women being the victims of it, and powerless to do anything against it. She might be against the sexy part, though. I dunno if it's entirely against the sexy part, however. Even if she is, I won't argue against some classy, or sensibly dressed female protagonists.

Lets be fair, a lot of guy protagonists are hard standards to live up to, but even if we don't get to live up to our rolemodels entirely, male or female, we can still try, and aspire. And I feel it helps to have a rolemodel of one's own gender, so that's definitely a reason we need more female protagonists.

It's true, a lot of female protagonists are at least inoffensive looking among the most worthwhile rolemodels. Nilin is the closest I can think of with her facial scar to a blemished woman, and even then she's pretty good looking.

I agree it's annoying when people hold up a few examples of good female characters, and tell people complaining to shut up, more or less like there's no problems at all.
On a personal note, 'm not a fan of people holding up NPCs as examples of good female characters, either.
Gender Select games are something of a cheap cop-out when it's more meaningful to have a woman in her own game, IMO.

Insulting female representation, I can definitely see in more than a few cases. I mean there's room for them, but there's gotta be a decent balance against the not so insulting ones. That balance is pretty still out of whack, especially in modern releases.

It would be nice if we got some women focused games where guys are the NPCs, supporting at best, that get drooled over instead of the other way around in the western world.
Those games shouldn't have to be imports to say the least. They exist in Japan to an extent. My significant other imported one. Not a cheap rhomp, but a meaningful romance game. I forget the name. Had something to do with the Shinsengumi, and demons.
There's some market for it in the west if the industry would attempt to get them out there, and advertised. I mean the people trying to get people clammoring for more female protagonists to shut up say as much about the romance novel genre's market. <.< And it's not even a fair comparason as it's a genre verses all of videogaming.
Even with that, though I don't hear a whole lot about games like that. Advertisement can definitely make or break a game that's not a household name, and even then, a l;ack of advertisement can hurt sales.
If the game industry wants more money, it makes sense they'd grow their audience, and start inviting women to play along, and pander to them more than they are. Not exclusive pandering, but more pandering than women get as it is with meaningful, quality games.
Guys should still get the games they want, though.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Of course, just because of my preference to breast size, I'm considered a bad person automatically by the entire country of Australia since obviously no woman past the age of 18 can possibly have a, b, or c cups.

Oh please. Nobody thinks you're a bad person for liking small breasts. Strange, maybe for some, but not bad. This is a ridiculous proposition to begin with.

http://theweek.com/article/index/105766/australias-small-breast-ban


so even if you are over 18, if you look young, you are considered a child.

even more so, if you star in porn, with small breasts, while looking young, you are making child porn. regardless of your actual age.

I'm sorry, I stand corrected. I thought we had more common sense than that. But then again, the people being labelled as 'bad' in this situation are not people who just like small breasts, although they are casualties of political correctness, it's people who are into children.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

keep an close eye on their speedos...

Wow, I didn't know they could launch themselves like that! That's some pro-level playing!
And I didn't know they grunted! lol the game just keeps getting better!

When I can afford/be arsed to get 20 dollars worth of points *Shakes fist at the lack of lower point cards.*, I know where the first 80 points are going! To getting that game!

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

snip

And nor are female characters often the ones fighting monsters, but when they are, they exhibit ridiculous strength as well as being sexy, because being sexy for a woman is empowerment.

Uh huh, so by what authority are you speaking for all women?

It's empowerment for males too. As I say in the very next sentence more concisely, you can live like an unattractive person and have just as many options while being attractive if you want, but you can't be unattractive and have the same options as an attractive person. It is, all things considered, almost as objective a positive as being wealthy as opposed to poor.

There are things sexy women can do that non-sexy women find more difficult, and for a woman to be attractive is something that society, due to the nature of realtionships, values.

And just maybe that's a rather sexist aspect of society.

I don't think it's sexist. I think it came about through evolution, with females being more valuable by being able to give birth and also in a more vulnerable position as a result of being able to give birth and needing to court the best males, essentially meaning males were valued for what they could do whereas females were valued for how they looked as a predictor of ability to give birth to fit offspring. Being skinny in cases where it becomes unhealthy is a product of human society, but largely I think the ideal image of a woman comes from those primitive times. It's less applicable in society now, but still strong enough for a woman's image to be generally more important to males than her muscles/money/whatever embodiment of physical power and agency you want to substitute. Essentially I think if we started society again with the system first-world countries have now, we wouldn't have that bias, but we do, arbitrarily, because as a race we grew up with it. Bacially, I don't think it's sexist because it isn't orchestrated, and males are also held to societal standards around different attributes.

Male characters, it doesn't matter as much about the looks because they're largely appliances who just exist to kill monsters, but where male characters should have sex appeal as well, they do, unrealistically for their situation much of the time.

Appliances? Right so they never look cool and people don't at all put themselves into the character.

I didn't say that, in fact for the first part I said the opposite, and for the second part it is irrelevant because I often 'put myself' into female characters in cases where that is what the game offers.

 

[EternallyBored]

It's a little annoying that you can't criticise these things without people who like them taking it as a personal attack.

You're not a bad person to like it.
You might be a bad person if you expect your status as the pandered-to majority to always be unchanged and unchallenged.

If it was a little more even, it wouldn't really be a problem.
But it's not.

Personally I'm keen on sexy elf guys. But if pretty much all male characters were sexy elf guys I might be craving a little diversity.

I think you hit on the crux of one of the more frequent problems when this argument comes up, and the point where both sides tend to start just talking past each other. Too many people take any sort of criticism as a personal attack against something they like, and then start to lump everyone making that criticism in with the most extreme elements on either side of the argument.

It's tragic really that half the time it seems like both sides are merely just arguing at each other rather than with each other. One side isn't full of rampant misogynists, and the other has no intention of trying to prevent titillation from ever appearing in any future game ever again.

So no, OP you aren't evil for liking sexy things, but neither is the other side of the argument for being annoyed at seeing so many games use sex as a crutch to character and story creation.

 

[Phasmal]

I think you hit on the crux of one of the more frequent problems when this argument comes up, and the point where both sides tend to start just talking past each other. Too many people take any sort of criticism as a personal attack against something they like, and then start to lump everyone making that criticism in with the most extreme elements on either side of the argument.

It's tragic really that half the time it seems like both sides are merely just arguing at each other rather than with each other. One side isn't full of rampant misogynists, and the other has no intention of trying to prevent titillation from ever appearing in any future game ever again.

So no, OP you aren't evil for liking sexy things, but neither is the other side of the argument for being annoyed at seeing so many games use sex as a crutch to character and story creation.

Yep. I'm not bothered by people enjoying monster boobage.
It's just the lack of other types of characters that annoys me.
I really doubt the tits are going anywhere, and I have no desire to get rid of them.
Bit less over the top ladies, little more sexy guys*. We can find a balance here.

*And no, Kratos and Marcus Fenix are not sexy. They look like meat poop.

 

[lacktheknack]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.

 

[DRTJR]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.

First off, not every game is going to focus on deep and meaningful characters. So for a game that has little to no story the character development department is going to be very lack luster. certain games will have the time and effort to flesh out & fully realize their characters, Dragon's Crown is not that type of game.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

 

[WindKnight]

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Nothing inherently wrong with liking stuff like that, or something catering to said tastes. The only problem as such is when a medium treats it as the only taste to be catered to, with the exclusion of all other equally valid tastes.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

to be fair, the artist was more concerned with exagerating old style fantasy art, which nonetheless meant the amazon and sorceress ended up a litte too analogous to how women in games are treated as a rule.

 

[Erttheking]

You're not a bad person for liking the cheap tittilation video games send your way because at least they have an abundance of interesting and/or complex female characters to compensate for the overwhelming amount of Tits McGee characters...

Oh, wait...

To be fair, there are not many interesting/complex characters...period. Even though there are on average many more male characters, the number of interesting/complex male or female characters are almost the same.

Yeah, that's kind of the problem overall. The writing in video games, on average, is kind of shit. This is just one of the many MANY symptoms, and it's a bit of a sore spot for many people.

With all due respect, whenever I see people saying this I get reminded why I don't play modern mainstream games, which is where that opinion that all games have shitty writing comes from. No where else. It's not like the entire Tales series, Earthbound, Myst, Final Fantasy 6, 9 and 10, Portal 1 and 2, Chrono Trigger, the MGS series, Persona, SMT, No More Heroes, Fire Emblem and dozens of other games and series have just vanished.

Writing in this medium only looks bad when people talk about AAA title on HD consoles and PC as far as I can tell.

It's like looking at summer block buster movies and saying 'this must be the best writing movies are capable of'.

I'm not denying that those game exists (Although I am of the opinion that Portal is a decent game that gets more praise than it should) it's just that in reality when put against all games that have ever been made, those games with good story count for 5% of all games at the very best, 1% or lower at the worse. Games have gotten very good at being fun, but when it comes to telling stories, Sturgeon's Law is very much in effect. Don't get me wrong, there are gems of story telling games that I will gush about for hours on end, but the majority of gaming still has a lot of work to do when it comes to story telling. I don't criticize them because I hate them, I criticize them because I see massive mines of untapped potential.

 

[Scarim Coral]

No you're not as I too like some eye candy. It just that some people thing the whole big boob or skimpy wearing women is kind of like sexualisation and also making us pig as in generalizing all women at thing to oogle at but we are not that stupid.

 

[lacktheknack]

The reason people don't like Dragon's Crown sorceress's figure is because it's bloody stupid.

I find the Sorceress aesthetically pleasing and in no way stupid at all, and the Elf is realistically proportioned, the reason a lot of media has women with huge tracks of land is because a lot of men (my self included) find that hot, we all have our own sexual quirks like I can not find tanned women sexy at all but a lot of people do. So just life with the fact that a good number of people do in fact like that something you do not about a particular character.

Well, congratulations.

Now, Allow me to reiterate the part of my post you cut out:

Why can't I be annoyed that too many bloody games these days has their female characters designed to appeal sexually?

I don't WANT female characters that are tailored to my sexual quirks. I want ones that are actually characterized and treated like individual humans that are unapologetically their own being, not specifically changed to be alluring.

Giving me a lecture on "different people have different sexual attractions" (the least necessary lecture ever made on the internet, btw) misses my point entirely.

First off, not every game is going to focus on deep and meaningful characters. So for a game that has little to no story the character development department is going to be very lack luster. certain games will have the time and effort to flesh out & fully realize their characters, Dragon's Crown is not that type of game.

The reason I cut that part was because of how incredibly stupid it was. The characters in that game were made to appeal to everyone's tastes in physical beauty regardless of preference of partner.

Well, it failed.

Also, I'm one of many who is starting to push back against no-characterization games, because there's so damn many of them. When all you want is a decent female character you can relate to, and all that anyone is talking about is Dragon's Crown and Dead or Alive, you... start to snap.

 

[DRTJR]

Well, it failed.

Also, I'm one of many who is starting to push back against no-characterization games, because there's so damn many of them. When all you want is a decent female character you can relate to, and all that anyone is talking about is Dragon's Crown and Dead or Alive, you... start to snap.

The Problem is that you are part of a very vocal Minority, Beyond Good and Evil sold poorly when it came out, and probably would if it came out today. Fem Shep runs are absolutely dwarfed by the number of Dude Shep in number of completed playthoughs.

The problems are numerous and none of them are quick fixes, It's harder for a man (Usually) to build a compelling narrative around a women then it is a guy because a large number of devs are in fact guys.
This will result in the protagonist being a guy because the dev-team is mostly guys. The females all being(or mostly being) knockouts because they're staring at them all day for each outfit with each lighting, so why not make them easy on the eyes? Even in games with Character Development, most if not all of it will be on our hero who is 99 times out of 100 is a dude.
And some genres aren't as conducive to deep narratives as others, I expet the RPG that takes 60-80 hours to have relate-able NPCs with their own dreams and aspirations, I don't expect to know anything about Hur Dur the Barbarian other then he wears a loin cloth and wields an axe in a side scrolling beat'em up.
You don't walk into Pacific Rim and expect Shakespeare, you walk into to see a giant robot punch giant monsters IN THE FACE! Let the games that exists to beat up orcs do that, other games are supposed to have deep and thought provoking stuff. So take measure of expectations and realize that Beyond Good & Evil 2 is never going to happen.

 

[lacktheknack]

The Problem is that you are part of a very vocal Minority, Beyond Good and Evil sold poorly when it came out, and probably would if it came out today. Fem Shep runs are absolutely dwarfed by the number of Dude Shep in number of completed playthoughs.

Then you'll excuse me if I'm a bit sore about the whole thing. Why the hell am I in the minority, if the gaming "community" is supposedly in the throes of fighting out its sexism issues? Have all our sexism threads gone to waste?

The problems are numerous and none of them are quick fixes, It's harder for a man (Usually) to build a compelling narrative around a women then it is a guy because a large number of devs are in fact guys.

I can't believe we're still going on about this. Unless the story is about womanly issues, such as periods or pregnancy, there's no adequate reason that being a guy would cut you off from writing a good story with a female protagonist.

Michel Ancel and Jacques Extertier didn't have issues with Jade.

Marc Laidlaw had no issues with secondary character Alyx in Half Life.

Erik Wolpaw brought us Chell and GLaDoS, one of which is one of gaming's great villains.

Rhianna Pratchett wrote Mirror's Edge and the new Tomb Raider, yes, but look at them good and hard and tell me what insights they gave us about women. Answer: Pretty much none, because their roles could have been filled by men without adding or losing anything (other than brand name recognition in Tomb Raider's case). There's nothing about the stories that you need to be a woman to "understand".

This will result in the protagonist being a guy because the dev-team is mostly guys. The females all being(or mostly being) knockouts because they're staring at them all day for each outfit with each lighting, so why not make them easy on the eyes? Even in games with Character Development, most if not all of it will be on our hero who is 99 times out of 100 is a dude.

Aaaaaaaand that's exactly what I'm getting tired of. That's my whole point.

And some genres aren't as conducive to deep narratives as others, I expet the RPG that takes 60-80 hours to have relate-able NPCs with their own dreams and aspirations, I don't expect to know anything about Hur Dur the Barbarian other then he wears a loin cloth and wields an axe in a side scrolling beat'em up.

And that's fine. But why can't Hur Dur's cliche love interest Mur Flirt actually where an animal skin, as opposed to just the paws over her naughty bits, and be generally shaped like a woman instead of a really expensive sex doll?

You don't walk into Pacific Rim and expect Shakespeare, you walk into to see a giant robot punch giant monsters IN THE FACE! Let the games that exists to beat up orcs do that, other games are supposed to have deep and thought provoking stuff. So take measure of expectations and realize that Beyond Good & Evil 2 is never going to happen.

In Dragon Crown's case, I walked into Pacific Rim and got softcore porn with robots punching monsters in the face.

That's why I don't take issue with Dead or Alive, at least it's not pretending to be more than it is.

You act like I take issue with Dragon's Crown as a game. I don't. Rayman Origins was six or seven giant barrels of fun, and there's no reason this one couldn't be either. But in Rayman, at least it actually tried to be flashy and interesting in a way that isn't so blitheringly irritating and vapid as "This woman has HH cups, commence staring". And don't tell me that wasn't something it was going for, or it wouldn't have put her in that dress and advertised her with that pose.

I mean, look at this. Just Google "Dragon's Crown", check the image search, and count the Sorceresses (for bonus points, toss in the Amazon). If this game intended to be anything other than a boob-centric leering romp, we've done a spectacularly bad job of portraying it as anything else.

 

[DRTJR]

Then you'll excuse me if I'm a bit sore about the whole thing. Why the hell am I in the minority, if the gaming "community" is supposedly in the throes of fighting out its sexism issues? Have all our sexism threads gone to waste?I'm pretty sure we're both of us are not part of "the average gamer." since they're probibly like "Heh the witch $#%$ has a Huge rack man." wilst we are engaging in mental rock'em sock'em robots.

I can't believe we're still going on about this. Unless the story is about womanly issues, such as periods or pregnancy, there's no adequate reason that being a guy would cut you off from writing a good story with a female protagonist.

Michel Ancel and Jacques Extertier didn't have issues with Jade.

Marc Laidlaw had no issues with secondary character Alyx in Half Life.

Erik Wolpaw brought us Chell and GLaDoS, one of which is one of gaming's great villains.

Rhianna Pratchett wrote Mirror's Edge and the new Tomb Raider, yes, but look at them good and hard and tell me what insights they gave us about women. Answer: Pretty much none, because their roles could have been filled by men without adding or losing anything (other than brand name recognition in Tomb Raider's case). There's nothing about the stories that you need to be a woman to "understand".You forgot Ayla, Tali, Morrigon, Terra, Cortana, and other great characters who are women, but for every Lucca you have dozens of Sophie(s) or Ayumi(s)(From X-blade) who are poorly characterized. And if memory serves me right Lara Croft Started as Indiana Jones but with boobs, so depth can be added after inception.

Being a guy is not a barrier per say, look at Hayo Miyazaki, most of his protagonists are female and superbly well done. But, most authors have the heroes of their stories be their gender even if the story has nothing to do with gender issues. It's more of a comfort thing than a barrier to entry. If my Literature professor taught me anything, it was that you can tell when something is written by a guy or a girl by some of the subtleties in focus and other things.

Aaaaaaaand that's exactly what I'm getting tired of. That's my whole point.I know if I were staring at the same women from 9 to 5, for months, I'd at least make kinda attractive

And that's fine. But why can't Hur Dur's cliche love interest Mur Flirt actually where an animal skin, as opposed to just the paws over her naughty bits, and be generally shaped like a woman instead of a really expensive sex doll?Felicia is buck naked, and a Nun.

But on a more serious note, Hammer from Fable 2 was well written and ugly as sin. Great character that was meant to be a friend and that's it. and as someone on the Lionhead forums after Fable 2 hit, they hated her with a fiery passion because she was fugly. So to placate the masses Mur Flirt is a knock out. It's sad and I left there because of that kind of lunacy.


In Dragon Crown's case, I walked into Pacific Rim and got softcore porn with robots punching monsters in the face.

That's why I don't take issue with Dead or Alive, at least it's not pretending to be more than it is.

You act like I take issue with Dragon's Crown as a game. I don't. Rayman Origins was six or seven giant barrels of fun, and there's no reason this one couldn't be either. But in Rayman, at least it actually tried to be flashy and interesting in a way that isn't so blitheringly irritating and vapid as "This woman has HH cups, commence staring". And don't tell me that wasn't something it was going for, or it wouldn't have put her in that dress and advertised her with that pose.

I dare say that's they point, they(The team behind Dragon's Crown) were going for a very Frank Frazetta style with all of the characters, and that how he (and artists like him) drew both men and women as hyper-sexualized characters. Not even Arnold looks like Conan

I mean, look at this. Just Google "Dragon's Crown", check the image search, and count the Sorceresses (for bonus points, toss in the Amazon). If this game intended to be anything other than a boob-centric leering romp, we've done a spectacularly bad job of portraying it as anything else.[/quote]Crucifing the game because of the inormiment amount of images of one of the more attractive characters whom their was a controversy over is like executing someone for jay walking. If the United Dwarfs of America said the Dwarf character was raisist and a controvery blew up because of that then He would be the most prevalent picture out their for a while.

 

[Talvrae]

Personally watching the sorceress in Dragon Crown only made me giggles, it's so ridiculous...

 

[MorphingDragon]

The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Stay away from Tumblr then, otherwise you'll be mad constantly.

 

[Resetti's_Replicas]

If anyone said you were a bad person, it's not because of your tastes in women, but probably because you were talking about it at a time when you shouldn't have been